Death knell for AGW

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
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Keep it going then, I never claimed to be a scientist nor will I pretend I am one. I already told who changed my mind on the subject......a scientist.

Anyways, waiting for your response to Tonnington.;-)

There is no need for me to respond. Tonnington has only now figured out what I meant all these long posts, which BTW I told him already he wasn't listening to me - now I am proved right, so you and he can continue in your fallacies that I have moved the goal posts if you wish but it is a fallacy.

It seems you two were more interested in tilting at windmills then finding answers. So go tilt at carbon.

If and when you ever figure out what I am talking about perhaps we can pick up this conversation again.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Oshawa
There is no need for me to respond. Tonnington has only now figured out what I meant all these long posts, which BTW I told him already he wasn't listening to me - now I am proved right, so you and he can continue in your fallacies that I have moved the goal posts if you wish but it is a fallacy.

It seems you two were more interested in tilting at windmills then finding answers. So go tilt at carbon.

If and when you ever figure out what I am talking about perhaps we can pick up this conversation again.

Scott Free = Epic fail.

YOU LOSE!!!!


......again.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Post all the little cartoons you want Scott but it doesn't change your EPIC FAIL!:lol:

Nothing left to see here, shows over, let Scott get the last word.....it's all he has left.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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Boise gets earliest snow on record, record cold in Oregon, Washington

12 10 2008
From the Idaho Statesman:

Valley shivers as winter weather makes a premature appearance
Big snow flakes fell early Friday evening, turning Downtown Boise into a giant snow globe for people on their way home from work.
The snow caught many people off guard, including this bicyclist heading down Idaho Street between 8th and 9th around 5:45 p.m. Across the Treasure Valley, tree branches heavy with wet, snow-covered leaves fell on power lines, causing scattered power outages.
This is the earliest measurable snowfall in Boise since recordkeeping began in 1898, according to the National Weather Service. At 10 p.m., the Weather Service said 1.7 inches of snow had fallen. The previous earliest recorded snowfall was Oct. 12, 1969, when a little more than an inch fell. And if the snow wasn’t enough, meteorologists say winds across southwestern Idaho will average 25 to 40 mph through Saturday afternoon, with gusts up to 55 mph. Sustained winds of 30 to 40 mph are expected, which can make driving difficult.
There is also some early and record snows in Billings Montana
A snowfall record for Oct. 11 was set in Billings yesterday.
According the National Weather Service, Billings saw 3.1 inches of snow Friday. The old record of 2.8 inches was set in 1969.
 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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Lorne Gunter: Thirty years of warmer temperatures go poof

In early September, I began noticing a string of news stories about scientists rejecting the orthodoxy on global warming. Actually, it was more like a string of guest columns and long letters to the editor since it is hard for skeptical scientists to get published in the cabal of climate journals now controlled by the Great Sanhedrin of the environmental movement.
Still, the number of climate change skeptics is growing rapidly. Because a funny thing is happening to global temperatures -- they're going down, not up.
On the same day (Sept. 5) that areas of southern Brazil were recording one of their latest winter snowfalls ever and entering what turned out to be their coldest September in a century, Brazilian meteorologist Eugenio Hackbart explained that extreme cold or snowfall events in his country have always been tied to "a negative PDO" or Pacific Decadal Oscillation. Positive PDOs -- El Ninos -- produce above-average temperatures in South America while negative ones -- La Ninas -- produce below average ones.
Dr. Hackbart also pointed out that periods of solar inactivity known as "solar minimums" magnify cold spells on his continent. So, given that August was the first month since 1913 in which no sunspot activity was recorded -- none -- and during which solar winds were at a 50-year low, he was not surprised that Brazilians were suffering (for them) a brutal cold snap. "This is no coincidence," he said as he scoffed at the notion that manmade carbon emissions had more impact than the sun and oceans on global climate.
Also in September, American Craig Loehle, a scientist who conducts computer modelling on global climate change, confirmed his earlier findings that the so-called Medieval Warm Period (MWP) of about 1,000 years ago did in fact exist and was even warmer than 20th-century temperatures.
Prior to the past decade of climate hysteria and Kyoto hype, the MWP was a given in the scientific community. Several hundred studies of tree rings, lake and ocean floor sediment, ice cores and early written records of weather -- even harvest totals and censuses --confirmed that the period from 800 AD to 1300 AD was unusually warm, particularly in Northern Europe.
But in order to prove the climate scaremongers' claim that 20th-century warming had been dangerous and unprecedented -- a result of human, not natural factors -- the MWP had to be made to disappear. So studies such as Michael Mann's "hockey stick," in which there is no MWP and global temperatures rise gradually until they jump up in the industrial age, have been adopted by the UN as proof that recent climate change necessitates a reordering of human economies and societies.
Dr. Loehle's work helps end this deception.
Don Easterbrook, a geologist at Western Washington University, says, "It's practically a slam dunk that we are in for about 30 years of global cooling," as the sun enters a particularly inactive phase. His examination of warming and cooling trends over the past four centuries shows an "almost exact correlation" between climate fluctuations and solar energy received on Earth, while showing almost "no correlation at all with CO2."
An analytical chemist who works in spectroscopy and atmospheric sensing, Michael J. Myers of Hilton Head, S. C., declared, "Man-made global warming is junk science," explaining that worldwide manmade CO2 emission each year "equals about 0.0168% of the atmosphere's CO2 concentration ... This results in a 0.00064% increase in the absorption of the sun's radiation. This is an insignificantly small number."
Other international scientists have called the manmade warming theory a "hoax," a "fraud" and simply "not credible."
While not stooping to such name-calling, weather-satellite scientists David Douglass of the University of Rochester and John Christy of the University of Alabama at Huntsville nonetheless dealt the True Believers a devastating blow last month.
For nearly 30 years, Professor Christy has been in charge of NASA's eight weather satellites that take more than 300,000 temperature readings daily around the globe. In a paper co-written with Dr. Douglass, he concludes that while manmade emissions may be having a slight impact, "variations in global temperatures since 1978 ... cannot be attributed to carbon dioxide."
Moreover, while the chart below was not produced by Douglass and Christy, it was produced using their data and it clearly shows that in the past four years -- the period corresponding to reduced solar activity -- all of the rise in global temperatures since 1979 has disappeared.
It may be that more global warming doubters are surfacing because there just isn't any global warming.
lgunter@shaw.ca
National Post
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Arctic's warming hits chilling record highs TheStar.com - World - Arctic's warming hits chilling record highs
AP PHOTO
Alaska’s Bering Glacier is seen in this file image.

ARCTIC REPORT CARD FINDINGS

• Ice melt caused the Arctic Ocean to continue warming and become less salty. This was accompanied by an "unprecedented" rate of sea level rise of nearly 0.254 centimetres a year.
• Warming continued around Greenland in 2007, resulting in record ice melt, making it the largest contributor to the rise in global sea level.
• Reindeer herds that had been increasing since the 1970s appear to be levelling off or declining.
• Goose populations are rising.
- Associated Press



Impact felt as weather in fall 5C above normal

October 17, 2008
Randolph E. Schmid
ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON–Fall temperatures in the Arctic are at record highs, the Arctic Ocean is warming and desalinating as sea ice melts, and reindeer herds appear to be declining, researchers reported yesterday.
"Obviously, the planet is interconnected, so what happens in the Arctic does matter" to the rest of the world, Jackie Richter-Menge of the Cold Regions Research and Engineering Laboratory in Hanover, N.H., said in releasing the third annual Arctic Report Card.
The report, compiled by 46 scientists from 10 countries, looks at a variety of conditions in the Arctic.
The region has long been expected to be among the first to show impacts from global warming, which the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says is largely a result of human activities adding carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases to the atmosphere.
"Changes in the Arctic show a domino effect from multiple causes more clearly than in other regions," said James Overland, an oceanographer at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory. "It's a sensitive system and often reflects changes in relatively fast and dramatic ways."
For example, fall air temperatures in the Arctic are at a record 5C above normal. The report noted 2007 was the warmest year on record in the Arctic, leading to a record loss of sea ice. This year's sea ice melt was second only to 2007.
The study noted a warming trend on Arctic land and an increase in greenery as shrubs move into areas that were formerly permafrost.
The rate so far this century is less than in the 1990s because of natural variability, the researchers said.


Toronto Star

Plus. Harper is putting in another 100 million.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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No, the intention of the artist is irrelevant, only the context you used the cartoon in is.

Then you used it improperly, I read it and it gave me the very clear impression it supported Tonnington and not you.

It was very clearly mocking the sense of groundless unsupported faith in an idea. One without sufficient scientific backing and a whole lot that opposes it.

And like the fellow who tried to fly, you are only having this faith because you WANT it to be true.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
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Then you used it improperly, I read it and it gave me the very clear impression it supported Tonnington and not you.

It was very clearly mocking the sense of groundless unsupported faith in an idea. One without sufficient scientific backing and a whole lot that opposes it.

And like the fellow who tried to fly, you are only having this faith because you WANT it to be true.

There is no evidence that carbon plays anything but a tiny role in the warming of the planet. That is a fact.

You can wish otherwise all you want Zzarchov but it isn't going to change the fact.

I have even posted an article from Science which now admits this fact.

The truth will come out eventually. Meanwhile, I laugh at you and your fellow religionists.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
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Then you used it improperly, I read it and it gave me the very clear impression it supported Tonnington and not you.

It was very clearly mocking the sense of groundless unsupported faith in an idea. One without sufficient scientific backing and a whole lot that opposes it.

And like the fellow who tried to fly, you are only having this faith because you WANT it to be true.

There is no evidence that carbon plays anything but a tiny role in the warming of the planet. That is a fact.

You can wish otherwise all you want Zzarchov but it isn't going to change the fact.

I have even posted an article from Science which now admits this fact.

The truth will come out eventually. Meanwhile, I laugh at you and your fellow wish-thinkers..

 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
From Erik the Viking:

KING ARNULF: Now, I know what some of you must be thinking... the day has come.... we're all going down, etc. etc. But let's get away from the fantasy and look at the FACTS. FACT ONE - The threat of total destruction has kept the peace for one thousand years. FACT TWO - The chances of it failing now are therefore one in three hundred and sixty-five thousand. FACT THREE...

By this time the water is up to people's knees, and several have crowded onto the lower steps to avoid getting wet.

KING ARNULF: FACT THREE - Our safety regulations are the most rigorous in the world. We are all nice to each other, we never rub each other up the wrong way or contradict each other, do we?

CROWD: No.

Rumble. The buildings sink and masonry falls.

CITIZEN: We... er... do seem to be going down quite fast, Your Majesty - not trying to contradict you, course.

KING ARNULF: No, of course you're not, citizen. But let's stick to the facts. There has NEVER been a safer, more certain way of keeping the peace. So whatever's happening, you can rest assured, Hy-Brasil is NOT sinking. Repeat, NOT sinking.

We cut to an unfortunate Hy-Brasilian who looks out of a window to see if it's raining, but is immersed before he can find out. The citizens in the Forum, however, are reassured by the King's words - even though they are now up to their waists in water. One of them steps forward.

ANOTHER CITIZEN: May I just make a point in support of what King Arnulf's just said?

KING ARNULF: We'd be delighted - wouldn't we?

CITIZENS: Yes, we'd certainly like to hear what one of us has got to say...

Erik, Sven, Sven's dad and Harald struggle out of the Great Hall, carrying their belongings and the Horn Resounding, while the citizen is still speaking most articulately in support of the King. They are ALMOST in a panic.

ERIK: What are you all doing?

CITIZEN AT THE BACK - (cheerfully): It's all right. It's not happening.

ERIK - (urgently): The place is sinking!

CITIZEN AT THE BACK: Yes... I thought it was too, but the King's just pointed out that it can't be.

CITIZEN - (still speaking in support of the King): ...and, of course, we mustn't forget King Arnulf's EXCELLENT eye for flower-arranging.

There is a smattering of applause. A few people pull their robes up out of the wet. Erik leaps onto a wall and shouts to the crowd.

ERIK: Save yourselves! Hy-Brasil... is sinking.

There are a lot of knowing smiles amongst the citizens.

CITIZEN FROM MIDDLE: Look, you don't know our safety regulations.

KING ARNULF: It can't happen.

ERIK: But it IS! Look!

KING ARNULF - (ignoring Erik): The important thing is not to panic.

CITIZENS: Quite... yes... we understand....

KING ARNULF: I've already appointed the Chancellor as Chairman of a committee to find out exactly what IS going on, and meantime I suggest we have a sing-song!

CITIZENS: Good idea!

ANOTHER: Can we do the one that goes "TUM-TI-TUM-TI-TUM-TI-TUM"?
 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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Alarmists Still Heated Even As World Cools

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:20 PM PT
Climate Change: It's been a bad year for global warming alarmists. Record cold periods and snowfalls are occurring around the globe. The hell that the radicals have promised is freezing over.
As the British House of Commons debated a climate-change bill that pledged the United Kingdom to reduce its carbon dioxide emissions by 80% by 2050, London was hit by its first October snow since 1922.
Apparently Mother Nature wasn't paying attention. The British people, however, are paying attention — to reality. A poll found that 60% of them doubt the claims that global warming is both man-made and urgent.
Elsewhere, the Swiss lowlands last month received the most snow for any October since records began. Zurich got 20 centimeters, breaking the record of 14 centimeters set in 1939. Ocala, Fla., experienced its second-lowest October temperature since 1850.
October temperatures fell to record lows in Oregon as well. On Oct. 10, Boise, Idaho, got the earliest snow in its history — 1.7 inches. That beat the old record by seven-tenths of an inch and one day on the calendar.
In the Southern Hemisphere, where winter was winding down, Durban, South Africa, had its coldest September night in history in the middle of the month. Some regions of the country had unusual late-winter snows. A month earlier, New Zealand officials reported that Mount Ruapehu had its largest snow base ever.
At the top of the world, the International Arctic Research Center reported last month, there was 29% more Arctic sea ice this year than last.
None of this matters, of course, to the warming zealots. It doesn't matter if it's too dry or too wet, too hot or too cold. All of it, they say, is caused by global warming.
We believe, however, as do many reputable scientists, that the warming and cooling of the Earth is a natural phenomenon dictated by forces beyond our control, from ocean currents to solar activity.
The latest warming trend, which appears to have ended in 1998, is the result of the end of the Little Ice Age, which extended from roughly the 16th century to the 19th. During that period, Muir Glacier in Alaska filled Glacier Bay. In fact, when the first Russian explorers arrived in Alaska in the 1740s, there was no Glacier Bay — just a wall of ice where the entrance would be.
As the Earth warmed, long before SUVs roamed the globe, Alaska's glaciers also warmed and began to recede, starting in the 1800s. All that may be changing. During the winter and summer of 2007-2008, unusually large amounts of winter snow were followed by unusually cold temperatures in June, July and August.
"In June, I was surprised to see snow still at sea level in Prince William Sound," says U.S. Geological Survey glaciologist Bruce Molnia. "On the Juneau Icefield, there was still 20 feet of new snow on the surface of the Taku Glacier in late July."
It was the worst summer he'd seen in two decades.
As the Anchorage Daily News reports, "Never before in the history of a research project dating back to 1946 had the Juneau Icefield witnessed the kind if snow buildup that came this year. It was similar on a lot of other glaciers too."
It's been "a long time on most glaciers," Molnia says, "where they've actually had positive mass balance." In other words, more snow is falling in the winter than melts in the summer, making the glaciers thicker in the middle.
Glaciers can appear to be shrinking even as they are growing. Photos taken from ships can record receding edges even as mass is building inland. When they get thick enough, the weight forces the glacier to advance.
The U.S. may owe its ascension to a global power on the global warming that began with the end of the Little Ice Age, which almost doomed the American Revolution. George Washington's famous winter at Valley Forge was part of that natural phenomenon.
As the climate warmed from 1800 to 1900, the U.S. tripled in size, spreading westward to straddle a continent. The population of the windy and very cold trading post known as Chicago grew from 4,000 in 1800 to 1.5 million by 1900, sitting on a great lake carved by glaciers long since receded.
Due to a decline in solar activity and other factors, the Earth is cooling and has been since 1998. And a peer-reviewed study published in April by Nature predicts the world will continue cooling at least through 2015.
Now, if only we could get the warming alarmists to face facts and cool it as well.
 

Walter

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Glaciers in Norway, Alaska, growing again

27 11 2008
A glacial region in Norway (Source: NRK)
Reposted from the DailyTech
By: Mike Asher


Scandinavian nation reverses trend, mirrors results in Alaska, elsewhere.
After years of decline, glaciers in Norway are again growing, reports the Norwegian Water Resources and Energy Directorate (NVE). The actual magnitude of the growth, which appears to have begun over the last two years, has not yet been quantified, says NVE Senior Engineer Hallgeir Elvehøy.
The flow rate of many glaciers has also declined. Glacier flow ultimately acts to reduce accumulation, as the ice moves to lower, warmer elevations.
The original trend had been fairly rapid decline since the year 2000.
The developments were originally reported by the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK).
DailyTech has previously reported on the growth in Alaskan glaciers, reversing a 250-year trend of loss. Some glaciers in Canada, California, and New Zealand are also growing, as the result of both colder temperatures and increased snowfall.
Ed Josberger, a glaciologist with the U.S. Geological Survey, says the growth is “a bit of an anomaly”, but not to be unexpected.
Despite the recent growth, most glaciers in the nation are still smaller than they were in 1982. However, Elvehøy says that the glaciers were even smaller during the ‘Medieval Warm Period’ of the Viking Era, prior to around the year 1350.
Not all Norwegian glaciers appear to be affected, most notably those in the Jotenheimen region of Southern Norway.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
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For myself and the threads that I have read it seems that our climate (no matter what influence we have on it) is volatile and cyclical. Of this we have no control.
 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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Rare snow covers south Louisiana, Miss.

By MICHAEL KUNZELMAN – 1 hour ago
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — A rare snowfall blanketed south Louisiana and parts of Mississippi Thursday, closing schools, government offices and bridges, triggering crashes on major highways and leaving thousands of people without power.
Parts of Louisiana were expected to get up to four inches of snow. Snow also covered a broad swath of Mississippi, including the Jackson area, and closed schools in more than a dozen districts. The National Weather Service in Jackson said up to 8 inches was possible in the southern and eastern parts of the state.
A heavy band of snow coated windshields and grassy areas in New Orleans, where the National Weather Service issued a winter storm warning.
Office workers stepped out of high-rises to catch a snowflake, snap pictures with cell-phone cameras and swap snow stories.
At a park in New Orleans' Uptown neighborhood, Sara Echaniz, 41, snapped photos and dodged snowballs thrown by her son, 3-year-old Sam. "He didn't believe it was snow until it started sticking to the ground," said Ecahniz, a native of Rochester, N.Y., who was pregnant with the child the last time it snowed in New Orleans, in December 2004.
In Alabama, heavy rains prompted forecasters to issue a flood watch for parts of the state. Wintry precipitation also was possible later Thursday as temperatures were expected to drop.
Flood watches were issued through Thursday night for much of North Carolina ahead of the storm system. Colder air behind the front could produce snow late Thursday and early Friday in the mountains.
In Louisiana, nearly 7,000 power outages were reported in south-central parishes as falling tree limbs snapped under the weight of ice and snow.
Some flights at Louis Armstrong International Airport outside New Orleans were delayed and canceled. Airport spokeswoman Michelle Wilcut said deicing equipment was being used on planes. Cleco Corp., one of the state's largest power providers, said the number of outages was expected to grow.
Forecasters said the mix of sleet and snow was expected to diminish later in the day as the weather system moved east.
In southeast Louisiana, temperatures were above freezing so accumulations were not expected to linger much beyond Thursday. An inch was forecast for New Orleans.
The wintry weather is rare in south Louisiana, though the state's northern parishes see it about once a year. New Orleans' last snowfall, in 2004, was a dusting that came nine months before Hurricane Katrina struck. The record snowfall for the city is about 5 inches, recorded Dec. 30, 1963.
The weather service said the previous earliest date for measurable snowfall in New Orleans was Dec. 22, 1989.
 

Walter

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Houston ties earliest snowfall record

11 12 2008
From the Houston Chronicle

Melissa Phillip Chronicle

Excerpts:
Jose Umana builds a snow ball as he plays with his brother and father in the snow fall at Affordable Cars & Trucks on I-45, where his dad, Mario Hernandez, Sr. works.

Falling snowflakes glimmered in streetlights, so wide that they billowed to the ground like parachutes, and so tantalizing that even awestruck adults reached out their hands or stuck out their tongues to catch one.
By Wednesday evening, the flakes were big enough to hold their shape for a moment on the street before melting into the pavement, and a dusting had collected on parked cars in some parts of town.
The flurries tied a record for Houston’s earliest snowfall ever and warmed the hearts of winter weather lovers who have pined for snow since it last made an appearance on Christmas Eve 2004.
“I’ve got a pot roast in the Crock-Pot, and I’m going to go home, change into my warmest pajamas and eat pot roast and enjoy what may be the only real winter day we have all year,” said Tina Arnold, an Illinois native who took advantage of the wintry backdrop to pick up Christmas presents Wednesday at The Woodlands Mall.
Since 1895, records indicate, snow has fallen this early just once — on Dec. 10, 1944.