Day of prayer is unconstitutional

[Machjo]

Personally, I wouldn't mind if the government just allowed us to deduct school fees from our taxes. That way private Catholic schools could proliferate all they want, but not on my nickel.

Of course I'd ask for the same for all Ontarians, and that's where Catholics stand opposed.

As for any public funding, it ought to be either strictly secular or along the lines of a Swedish-style voucher programme, but certainly not religious preferentialism.

 

[Icarus27k]

I'm sure they were aware of the existence of atheists even in their time.

I'm sure they were, but apparently their knowledge of atheists' existance didn't extend to not referencing theism and religion stuff in official government acts.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

The same way they do with the publicly funded Separate schools.

Separate schools are all controlled by Catholic Church, there is a unified command, at least in the religious sense. That won't be the case with other private schools, as church may run just one school from its basement, with the curriculum controlled by a Priest or by an Imam.

While there may be government regulations in force, it will be very difficult to enforce them when it comes to individual schools. It is much easier to hold a school board or Catholic Church to account rather than do it with a single Imam or Priest (and what he teaches in the privacy of his church or mosque basement).

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Declaring religion-related stuff in public life unconstitutional is one side of a constitutional argument. The argument is between people who take the US Constitution literally and strictly and people that are more likely to take it symbolically and more leniently.

It's clear the Framers wrote a lot of ideals into the Constitution but didn't grasp those ideals' full meanings. When they wrote freedom of religion into the First Amendment, they didn't think that could also apply to a non-religious person's freedom from religion.

Quite so, in those days freedom of religion meant freedom to worship any branch of Christianity. It did not mean freedom to worship Indian Gods or Wiccan God. i am not sure how the founding fathers will feel with today's interpretation of religious freedom, whether they will be amused or horrified.

It's now just a debate about whether we want to strictly apply the church-state seperation or not. Declaring the Day of Prayer unconstitutional is an example of strictly applying it.

These are really matters for the courts to decide.

 

[DaSleeper]

I'm sure they were, but apparently their knowledge of atheists' existance didn't extend to not referencing theism and religion stuff in official government acts.

Icarus: If you were attempting to bring this thread back on track......you seem to have failed....sorry;-)

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Personally, I wouldn't mind if the government just allowed us to deduct school fees from our taxes. That way private Catholic schools could proliferate all they want, but not on my nickel.

In these days of budget deficit? Forget it, it ain't happening.

Of course I'd ask for the same for all Ontarians, and that's where Catholics stand opposed.

As for any public funding, it ought to be either strictly secular or along the lines of a Swedish-style voucher programme, but certainly not religious preferentialism.

Perhaps. But now that it is here, we already have it, it will be practically impossible to get rid of.

 

[Machjo]

Perhaps. But now that it is here, we already have it, it will be practically impossible to get rid of.

Of course. It was the same with slavery and Apartheid. People do not give up their privileged status without a fight.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Of course. It was the same with slavery and Apartheid. People do not give up their privileged status without a fight.

Slavery and apartheid took more than a generation to get rid of. And that in spite of the fact that many people were convinced it was wrong. With funding for separate schools, monarchy or official religion (in England), there is no consensus for getting rid of them. So it is not happening, not even in another generation.

 

[Colpy]

Slavery and apartheid took more than a generation to get rid of.

yep....and the leadership of both the abolition camps were religious, and did so on religious grounds.......in case you forgot.