Dagger Ban unconstitutional Supreme Court says

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
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I think we have to be rational when looking at this: the kirpan is first and foremost a religious symbol. Yes, it can be used as a weapon but an inclusive society should first attempt to accomodate these religious beliefs without compromising public safety. And really, who thinks that allowing Sikhs to carry kirpans represents a significant risk? Come on! Any body could bring a knife to school whenever they want to do damage, and no law in the world is going to be able to prevent that.

It is completely reasonable to allow the kirpan, but put certain safeguards in place...
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Re: RE: Dagger Ban unconstitutional Supreme Court says

Mogz said:
As usual people are missing the underlaying factors here:

Saying he can bring a knife to school because it is part of his religion is a flagrant contradiction to our way of life. In our nation, religion is not suppose to bear sway over safety and/or equality. However our society, as i've outlined in other posts, is slowly cartering more and more to the "minorty" groups. This dagger issue is the exact same as the cartoon issue. We won't stand up for our laws and rules for fear of offending the religious minority. It sickens me to be honest. I respect that it is his religion, however he lives in Canada, not dirkastan. In Canada we do not take weapons to school, and we do not deem our religion above the laws that are the foundation of this nation. My personal view, if he doesn't like our laws he should get the hell out of this country. It's been my stance for years. You came to Canada, became a part of our society, yet expect to tailor our way of life to your liking? Forgive me, but isn't that, well, wrong? Maybe i'm out to lunch, perhaps we should just let this guy tramp all over our national identity, perhaps we should just start allowing anybody of a religious minority do what they want. Before I sum up, let me pose this question to those that support this "ruling". You deem it acceptable for him to take a knife to school as it is a part of his religion. Well, can an arab beat his wife in public if she speaks with another man? Beat her so badly she could die? No? Well it is a part of his religion, and widely accepted in the arab world is it not? The general argument there would be; "well that's not legal in Canada, you can't beat someone to death". Neither is taking a knife to school, unless you're a minorty that is.

I must be coming down with something I agree with you. :)
 

ashley_rb

New Member
Mar 2, 2006
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Well way to go Canada. First it was a court decision to allow gay marriage, dismantling the foundation of marriage between a man and woman. According to the courts, 2 men make for great parents to raise children: that is a dress wearing - makeup made - lip gossed guy who gets off on another guy with a lisp - 2 men who's sexual pervertion we all get to witness at the Gay Pride Parade - a leather thonged man riding on a float rubbing his crotch up against another man dressed with only a ball cup, a wink and a wee bit of blush. According to the courts, this makes for a great Canadian parent.

Today we have the court making another decision, Sikh children get to wear knifes to schools. So not only do Canadian children have no protection from dress yielding, thong rashed men, they now have to defend themselves from other children who have the legal right to arm themselves with knifes.

So Canadians stand up and be proud of your country. In Canada great parenting is now measured by the moral standards of the Gay Pride Parade and you get to witness a select group of armed children, who have the legal right to be armed in schools.

Oh Canada in deed!
 

Cosmo

House Member
Jul 10, 2004
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Victoria, BC
Re: RE: Dagger Ban unconstitutional Supreme Court says

ashley_rb said:
Well way to go Canada. First it was a court decision to allow gay marriage, dismantling the foundation of marriage between a man and woman. According to the courts, 2 men make for great parents to raise children: that is a dress wearing - makeup made - lip gossed guy who gets off on another guy with a lisp - 2 men who's sexual pervertion we all get to witness at the Gay Pride Parade - a leather thonged man riding on a float rubbing his crotch up against another man dressed with only a ball cup, a wink and a wee bit of blush. According to the courts, this makes for a great Canadian parent.


OMG ... somebody perfected a time machine and brought you forward from the dark ages, I see.

Ashley, I'm a lesbian. If I could take those comments seriously, I would be most offended. Since they are such blatant foolishness, all I can do is say thanks for the chuckle and please, please stick around long enough for us to bring you into the 21st Century!

Edited to bring thread back on topic ...
Daggers in schools? Ummmmm .... this is Canada. We have certain laws around such things. I'd be the last one to curb anyone's right to expression (religious or otherwise) but has common sense flown entirely out the window? You want to carry daggers to school, choose to live in a country whose laws accommodate that. If you choose to live in Canada, adjust your items of worship to conform to sensible laws of the land. The dagger is a symbolic item and symbolic items do not have to be life size. Catholics don't go around carrying big wooden crosses, for example.

If a Wiccan child wanted to bring an athame to school, I would bet dollars to donuts it wouldn't even be considered. Nor should it be. Symbolism is a huge part of almost all religions, but one does not have to have the actual item itself, but a representation thereof.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Re: RE: Dagger Ban unconstitutional Supreme Court says

Cosmo said:
ashley_rb said:
Well way to go Canada. First it was a court decision to allow gay marriage, dismantling the foundation of marriage between a man and woman. According to the courts, 2 men make for great parents to raise children: that is a dress wearing - makeup made - lip gossed guy who gets off on another guy with a lisp - 2 men who's sexual pervertion we all get to witness at the Gay Pride Parade - a leather thonged man riding on a float rubbing his crotch up against another man dressed with only a ball cup, a wink and a wee bit of blush. According to the courts, this makes for a great Canadian parent.


OMG ... somebody perfected a time machine and brought you forward from the dark ages, I see.

Ashley, I'm a lesbian. If I could take those comments seriously, I would be most offended. Since they are such blatant foolishness, all I can do is say thanks for the chuckle and please, please stick around long enough for us to bring you into the 21st Century!
Damn you Cosmo you got to this ashley-rb thing first, foundation of marriage eh, are you one of gods chosen people ashley? You sound like a common bible toting bigot to me. You,re an example of what children should not ever be exposed to, hate. :)
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
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Independent Palestine
Well way to go Canada. First it was a court decision to allow gay marriage, dismantling the foundation of marriage between a man and woman. According to the courts, 2 men make for great parents to raise children: that is a dress wearing - makeup made - lip gossed guy who gets off on another guy with a lisp - 2 men who's sexual pervertion we all get to witness at the Gay Pride Parade - a leather thonged man riding on a float rubbing his crotch up against another man dressed with only a ball cup, a wink and a wee bit of blush. According to the courts, this makes for a great Canadian parent.

Today we have the court making another decision, Sikh children get to wear knifes to schools. So not only do Canadian children have no protection from dress yielding, thong rashed men, they now have to defend themselves from other children who have the legal right to arm themselves with knifes.

So Canadians stand up and be proud of your country. In Canada great parenting is now measured by the moral standards of the Gay Pride Parade and you get to witness a select group of armed children, who have the legal right to be armed in schools.

Oh Canada in deed!

Hi Ashley and welcome to Canadian forums. Now that is all I am going to say about you.

Now, I am all for bringing daggars into the school.

With my religion, believe I will now go to the Supreme Court and as for the allowance of a huge 'broadsword' I *still need to pursue* and a axe that were apart of my religion, to accompany me into the classroom. Because that is part of my religion.

And then I get to loot and pillage. :lol: :twisted:
 

PoisonPete2

Electoral Member
Apr 9, 2005
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ah the ugly face of religious intolerance. Do you suppose, perhaps that Rights and Freedoms are imbedded in the Constitution to protect minorities from the tyrany of the majority?
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Of course.

And since I am a minority I should be able to bring my sword into my university. My religion is recognized in three countries.

And if you were talking to someone else then don't even bother listening to what I just said. :wink:
 

Cosmo

House Member
Jul 10, 2004
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Re: RE: Dagger Ban unconstitutional Supreme Court says

darkbeaver said:
Damn you Cosmo you got to this ashley-rb thing first
Na, Darkbeaver ... there is plenty of room for us both to comment. Remember ... my mission is to help bring this poor soul into today's reality. It's not a job one can tackle alone! ;)
 

Cosmo

House Member
Jul 10, 2004
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Victoria, BC
RE: Dagger Ban unconstitu

Now Jersay ... no discrimination ... pitch in regardless. Whichever gender, this one needs some gentle guidance about the facts. ;)
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
5,085
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Hi Ashley, I'm going to join Jersay in welcoming you to the forum, but I have to admit it is a welcome made with caution. Yours is hardly the most gracious way to walk in to a room full of strangers. Hope to see a different side of you with your next post.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
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Vancouver, BC
Ugh ... Another One

ashley_rb said:
Well way to go Canada. First it was a court decision to allow gay marriage, dismantling the foundation of marriage between a man and woman. According to the courts, 2 men make for great parents to raise children: that is a dress wearing - makeup made - lip gossed guy who gets off on another guy with a lisp - 2 men who's sexual pervertion we all get to witness at the Gay Pride Parade - a leather thonged man riding on a float rubbing his crotch up against another man dressed with only a ball cup, a wink and a wee bit of blush. According to the courts, this makes for a great Canadian parent.

Today we have the court making another decision, Sikh children get to wear knifes to schools. So not only do Canadian children have no protection from dress yielding, thong rashed men, they now have to defend themselves from other children who have the legal right to arm themselves with knifes.

So Canadians stand up and be proud of your country. In Canada great parenting is now measured by the moral standards of the Gay Pride Parade and you get to witness a select group of armed children, who have the legal right to be armed in schools.

Oh Canada in deed!
I see. Where to begin?

First and foremost, welcome to Canadian Content.

Now, to my point, ashley_rb; I'm gay. But no, I don't wear dresses — believe it or not, make-up and dresses aren't mandatory in this organization I belong to — says so on the membership card. Since I see you as nothing more than a bigot, I have no intention of wasting my energy typing an in-depth response to you — hope you're not offended, but I think I'd make a damned fine parent, and I plan to be one, some day. Just so happens I have learned it's easier not to waste my time on people like you.

:arrow: Back to the Topic at Hand

I just finished watching a press conference held by the teen-in-question — and he makes some very good points. There has never, in the history of Canada, been a report of violence using a kirpan in any public school in Canada. Moreover, not every Sikh chooses to carry one of these ceremonial daggers; while I have several Sikh friends, few have been baptised as Sikhs, and none choose to wear a kirpan on their person — nonetheless, it should be an option.

Besides, approximately one-third of the students in my class bring swiss army knives to school, or some such device — the teachers are aware of this, and they don't particularly care; and why should they? Any object can pose a potential risk, and we need to learn to trust each other to use such objects responsibly.

And when we get right down to it, the fact remains that Section 2(a) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees that citizens of Canada are to have the right to exercise their freedom of religion — I would argue that the delimiting clause, Section 1, would not apply in this case since it cannot be demonstrably proven that the kirpan poses a danger to students (since there has never been an incident of violence in relation to one of the daggers in Canada).
 

ashley_rb

New Member
Mar 2, 2006
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Hate? The dark ages? A bible thumper? No. Hate is calling people names, like the word bigot. That's hate. Its easy to call names, its harder to see the truth.

2 lesbians would make much better parents then 2 gay men any day. What are the dark ages for you? When there were morals?

Back to the armed Sikh's children in schools. It sets in motion a whole new direction: it will start with a knife and get ready, its a slippy slope. All you have to do is prove to the court that whatever the item is, it is at the center of a religious belief. Have your religion develope "aritcles of faith", like the sikh's have and your good to go.

Where will it end? Would this happen in the U.S.? No. Like gay marriage, unlike Canada, Americans have the courage to stand up and say no, regardless of the name calling. Clearly unlike Canada, Americans have something Canada lost:

Courage.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
ashley_rb, Canadians have something that Americans do not:

Tolerence for everyone.

So you can say, without a doubt, that two men would make worse parents than would a single father? You can say without knowing anything about me, that I am unfit to care for a child? Wouldn't you say that such a viewpoint is just a tad bit naïve?

I would argue that Canadian morals are stronger than ever — same-sex marriage was approved by the Parliament Assembled seven months ago, and Canadian society hasn't collapsed — it hasn't even flinched. Opposite-sex marriages haven't been dissolved, and there hasn't been some "unhealthy surge" in homosexuality.

Canadians have the courage to stand up and pronounce their acceptance for one another — the Supreme Court of Canada has shown that through a unanimous decision based on our Canadian statutes. We, as a nation, have legislated to the effect that no citizen should have their religious freedom compromised — this is shown through not only this decision, but the preventive measures of the Civil Marriage Act that ensured that religious beliefs would be protected, notwithstanding the implementation of same-sex marriage.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
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38
Independent Palestine
Hateful statements are directed at a people, at a person or at a thing.

Five did not say anything hateful, he made an assumption which appears to be correct.

Now if you are in America, I have some advice for you stay there.

If you are in Canada, move there.