Con deficits, no surprise.

[SirJosephPorter]

The Liberals and NDP screamed blue murder any time Mulroney wanted to cut spending, and the public was not generally for it.

Toro, incase you have forgotten, Mulroney had a majority. What did he care what Libs or NDP thought? If he wanted to reduce the deficit, who was stopping him?

Had Mulroney wanted to do what the right-wing of the PCs wanted to do, then the Tories probably would have lost the 1988 election.

For your information, right wing of PC did not want to reduce the deficit, the classic right wing philosophy is borrow and spend, the right sees nothing wrong with the deficit (witness how many right wingers are defending massive deficits even in this forum).

As to losing 1988 election, possibly. But then what was his excuse for not trying to reduce the deficit after the 1988 election? Was he afraid he was going to lose the 1992 election? The fact is, he had two back to back majorities; he could have done pretty much anything he wanted, including reducing the deficit. The reason he did not do so is that it does not fit into the conservative philosophy of borrow and spend.

Look at Reagan, he is Mr. Conservative personified, he is the conservative icon, most conservatives idolize him. He was a great proponent of borrow and spend. Mulroney was in the same mould. So don’t make any excuses as to why he didn’t reduce the deficit. He didn’t reduce the deficit because he didn’t want to, it did not fit into the conservative, right wing philosophy.

 

[Cannuck]

Better yet. What are you talking about? The current conservative deficit plan doesn't address any of the why and they've been forced into the "when".

It isn't a "deficit plan" it is a budget and commenting on it before it is actually tabled makes people look like either idiots or ideologues. Which are you?

 

[Risus]

Harper is stuck between a rock and a hard place. No matter what he does, good or bad, the opposition will not be satisfied. Lamebrain Layton has said he will vote against the budget no matter what is in it. How stupid is that??

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Harper is stuck between a rock and a hard place. No matter what he does, good or bad, the opposition will not be satisfied. Lamebrain Layton has said he will vote against the budget no matter what is in it. How stupid is that??

In case you are not familiar with Canadian democracy, that normally is what the opposition does, votes against the budget.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

The bone of contention here is about a government who campaigns on transparency and no deficits, when in fact we see the opposite, (a lie) like the Conservatives they cheat on the 2006 election by over spending so they can get the massage out to the people and lie to hold on to a job they do not deserve to have.

A government can not tell the people today we will not run a deficit and 8 weeks latter you hit them with a $64 billion deficit for the next 2 years. That is wrong and Harper doesn’t qualify to run Canada.

He is a butcher and soon his job will be on the chopping block, as I am glad I will be right on my assessment on Harpers dismal performance a one man show PM. Harper has a very divisive personality about his demeanor of consultation with others.

In his eyes I guess he thinks he is God, in my view he is a liar a cheat a butcher,
and he is going down memory lane to be remembered as the insecure Conservative thug, who would go to the length to witch to close parliament so he can hold on to a job he has a difficult time in making functional. He will go down in memory lane as the most undemocratic PM in resent memory. The Conservatives will hurt Canada once again; Mulroney’s $40Billion deficit will look like a pick nick by the time the Harpers Conservatives finish their dismal performance.

It is hard to understand when a man like Harper blows his on horn talking to the media making statements like “you got to remember I am an economist, I have a degree in economics” and the men 8 weeks ego said no deficit and today there will be a $64Billion, that is like saying ye I can fly a plane but I am not able to do a regular landing, but I am sure I can crush land with no problem.

I say to Conservative diehards think hard to find a reason why Harper deserves a majority and you will be busy for a while and the answer my friends is blowing in the wind.

By the way Welcome Back Avro....

 

[JLM]

In case you are not familiar with Canadian democracy, that normally is what the opposition does, votes against the budget.

And I suppose you think that is proper? What are we paying for to sit in Parliament??? A body or a brain? It's the responsibility of the political parties to work together to ensure we get the best Gov't. Anything less is irresponsible.

 

[Francis2004]

And I suppose you think that is proper? What are we paying for to sit in Parliament??? A body or a brain? It's the responsibility of the political parties to work together to ensure we get the best Gov't. Anything less is irresponsible.

JLM whether you or me agree with any of the opposition parties stance, it is their job to follow the mandate that their party had forward during the election to a certain level. As well a good MP will listen to his constituents and do the right things. An oppositions job is to get the maximum protection and tax value in a budget. This may not appeal to you but it is what they are elected to do..

Such is their job as well on all other legislation put forward..

 

[Socrates the Greek]

The GG’S boring Harper made speech…. Bottom line in the next 2 years Canada is faced with $64Billion red ink, what is really bad about it is that the Conservatives knew 8 weeks ago with the type of economics they were dealing with and they were not forth coming with the people. No deficit 8 weeks ago, to a humongous $64Billion is a very serious problem; Canadians are being led down a scary and deceitful path by the Conservatives.

Top Videos - TheChronicleHerald.ca

 

[Francis2004]

The GG’S boring Harper made speech…. Bottom line in the next 2 years Canada is faced with $64Billion red ink, what is really bad about it is that the Conservatives knew 8 weeks ago with the type of economics they were dealing with and they were not forth coming with the people. No deficit 8 weeks ago, to a humongous $64Billion is a very serious problem; Canadians are being led down a scary and deceitful path by the Conservatives.

Top Videos - TheChronicleHerald.ca

SC I agree and the point that could be made is that 8 to 12 weeks ago the Government could have spent 1/2 or 32 Billion and gotten a better bang out of our money.

The below is what was annouced as stimulous package when in November we were told the economy was strong. Many of us were saying it was bull because we could see the signs and parliament was prorogued, henced a loss of valuable time and money.

• stimulate the economy through direct government action and by encouraging private expenditure
• invest in infrastructure
• protect stability of financial systems
• give access to credit for consumers and businesses
• support industries that Canadians rely on: forestry, manufacturing, automotive, tourism, agriculture

CTV.ca | Feds pledge 6-point action plan in throne speech

Not only did we miss the opportunity to stay ahead of other countries but now our total debt will be back to the 1993 level due to this incredible mess.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

SC I agree and the point that could be made is that 8 to 12 weeks ago the Government could have spent 1/2 or 32 Billion and gotten a better bang out of our money.

The below is what was annouced as stimulous package when in November we were told the economy was strong. Many of us were saying it was bull because we could see the signs and parliament was prorogued, henced a loss of valuable time and money.



CTV.ca | Feds pledge 6-point action plan in throne speech

Not only did we miss the opportunity to stay ahead of other countries but now our total debt will be back to the 1993 level due to this incredible mess.

Good post Sir Francis, Harper will make Mulroney’s $40Billion look like a cake walk.
Unfair to all Canadians who do not like deceit had they known of Harpers secret agenda the $64Billion pain killer, maybe they may have vote in a deferent way, meaning not for the snow Wight Conservatives.

 

[JLM]

JLM whether you or me agree with any of the opposition parties stance, it is their job to follow the mandate that their party had forward during the election to a certain level. As well a good MP will listen to his constituents and do the right things. An oppositions job is to get the maximum protection and tax value in a budget. This may not appeal to you but it is what they are elected to do..

Such is their job as well on all other legislation put forward..

Absolutely, but when Dion, Layton and Duceppe jumped on Harper 5 minutes after making his announcement early in Dec. quite frankly I doubt if any of them had time to hear anything from their constituents- they were more interested in being opportunistic.

 

[Francis2004]

Absolutely, but when Dion, Layton and Duceppe jumped on Harper 5 minutes after making his announcement early in Dec. quite frankly I doubt if any of them had time to hear anything from their constituents- they were more interested in being opportunistic.

You miss the point JLM, they were right about the economy.. Whether you like them or not Harper has had to back track and now agrees the Canadian economy being in trouble. He refused to listen back then and now costs us 64 BILLION instead of a possible 32 Billion it might have only taken 3 months ago. Time is precious in these situations and he did not have the right to play games.. It was his choice to do so and he lost. But to a larger extent he lost with our money and economy.. For that reason he should step down.

You must remember he is an Economist and a bad one at that or a liar.. Choose which one you want to believe in.. An economy like Canada's does not turn on a dime as fast as it did.. Sorry but the signs were all there ..

 

[Toro]

:lol:

You can pull out all the numbers and history you want Toro

Now that's just hilarious! Those pesky numbers and history. We don't need those!

but it still dosen't change the fact that in the last 30 years cons have been running bigger debts than Libs ever did and also dosen't take into account how Libs run surpluses and have fixed problems left by neo-cons.

I didn't realize Trudeau was a neocon. You learn something new everyday.

In a cons world when libs run deficits it's bad but when cons do it it's good.

What a joke cons are, biggest hypocrits alive.:roll:

Nope. Its you who is the revisionist.

 

[Toro]

The Liberals and NDP screamed blue murder any time Mulroney wanted to cut spending, and the public was not generally for it.

Toro, incase you have forgotten, Mulroney had a majority. What did he care what Libs or NDP thought? If he wanted to reduce the deficit, who was stopping him?

So, in other words, he didn't cut spending enough, correct? I'd agree with you. I wanted him to be like Margaret Thatcher and straighten out the candy-ass left in Canada, but he didn't. Would you have been happy if Mulroney had?

Had Mulroney wanted to do what the right-wing of the PCs wanted to do, then the Tories probably would have lost the 1988 election.

For your information, right wing of PC did not want to reduce the deficit, the classic right wing philosophy is borrow and spend, ...

I'm sorry. I had to stop this right here.

You are absolutely completely totally dead wrong.

"Classic" right-wing philosophy did not start in 1980. Supply-side economics is not even remotely classical economics. The fact that Republicans adopted this nonsense that tax cuts could balance the budget in the 80s in no way shape or form represents anything like classical economics.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"Classic" right-wing philosophy did not start in 1980. Supply-side economics is not even remotely classical economics. The fact that Republicans adopted this nonsense that tax cuts could balance the budget in the 80s in no way shape or form represents anything like classical economics.

It may not be ‘classic’ right wing philosophy, Toro (according your meaning of the word ‘classic’), but that is the right wing philosophy these days, borrow and spend.

As I have said before, Conservatives revere Reagan; he was the ultimate in conservatism. He championed the borrow and spend philosophy, he squarely identified it with conservatism. After him, Bush continued the borrow and spend tradition with gusto, he borrowed much more than Reagan.

Then sanity prevailed under Clinton, who converted huge deficits into healthy surpluses. However, the second Bush promptly reverted back to the conservative philosophy of borrow and spend.

Same thing happened here in Canada. Mulroney was an enthusiastic supporter of borrow and spend, he tried to outdo Reagan and Bush in borrowing. Then sanity prevailed with Chrétien/Martin, and we got healthy surpluses for several years running.

When Fidel came to power, for a while he did follow in the Liberal footsteps. While he did imitate his idol, Bush and got rid of all the surplus, at least he did not put Canada into hock, as Bush did with USA big time. However, as it turns out, it was only a matter of time, now we may have deficits which Mulroney would regard with envy.

So I don’t know what ‘classic’ conservatism is, these days (and in recent history), conservatism is squarely associated with borrow and spend. I think that is the conservative answer to the left wing philosophy of tax and spend.

 

[pgs]

Sir Joseph Potter
No Party Affilliation.

But liberal through and through.
Just curious if the no party affiliation is because you are to cheap to support your cause finacially?

 

[Cannuck]

It may not be ‘classic’ right wing philosophy, Toro (according your meaning of the word ‘classic’), but that is the right wing philosophy these days, borrow and spend.

As I have said before, Conservatives revere Reagan; he was the ultimate in conservatism......

Perhaps you should read this before you continue on with this discussion

Conservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[pegger]

Sir Joseph Potter
No Party Affilliation.

But liberal through and through.
Just curious if the no party affiliation is because you are to cheap to support your cause finacially?

Is this a standard Conservative Party attack now? Just cause I think Harper is a useless, lying sack of excrement does not mean I'm Liberal. It just means I'm not a blind jaded partisan.

You know what I expect from the Conservative party? Fiscal prudence. That means no structural deficits, government operating costs held at inflation (at MAXIMUM) or less, useless programs curtailed or cut, and smaller government (both in terms of # of cabinet positions AND in the bureaucracy). However, Harper has increased government spending by 25% (IIRC) in 2 years, passed billions to Quebec for "equalization" (a program which is ineffective and should be scrapped), cut the wrong tax (at the worng time), scrapped the $3 Billion contingency fund and couldn't see that a global meltdown and a massive meltdown in the US would affect us as little as 8 weeks ago. Now he is on the verge of throwing BILLIONS on so called "stimulus spending" which should have been done months ago - and will prove to be both ineffectual and a complete waste.

I would have respect for the man if he would own up to his mistakes. If he stood in front of parliament and said, in November he was wrong. However, nothing is EVER this guy's fault - it's the Liberals, or coalition, or the world economy... blah blah blah.

The man is an unaccountable, incompetent liar, unworthy to be leader of my kid's kindergarten class, let alone this country.

It GALLS me that I have to say the Liberals did a better job at controlling finances than the Conservatives did.

 

[pgs]

I said nothing about conservative fiscal prudence.
I am simply questioning Sir Joseph Potter"s claim of no party affiliation when he is continually trumpeting the liberal record.

 

[Risus]

Layton is the one who looks like an idiot. He has made his decision that he will be voting against the budget even though he knows nothing about it. He is just power hungry, hoping to be part of the government by the 'coalition' defeating the government. It would be the only way he would ever have a chance to be part of the governing body. I hope it backfires on him