Members of both genders take unfair advantage. It's human nature. Men's press tends to be all bad and women's asserts blamelessness. There is gender inequality both ways. It is inherent in the culture, and possibly the species. An example (without meaning any disrespect) is in Zipper’s sentence above. Why are women “fawns”? There is an implicit pleading of gender helplessness in the description yet women are not generally helpless. I don't suppose the pendulum will ever stop dead centre any time this side of heaven.
College Women: Stop Getting Drunk
- Thread starter Locutus
- Start date
Members of both genders take unfair advantage. It's human nature. Men's press tends to be all bad and women's asserts blamelessness. There is gender inequality both ways. It is inherent in the culture, and possibly the species. An example (without meaning any disrespect) is in Zipper’s sentence above. Why are women “fawns”? There is an implicit pleading of gender helplessness in the description yet women are not generally helpless. I don't suppose the pendulum will ever stop dead centre any time this side of heaven.
I know I'm gonna take some flack here but....
It is time there was some personal responsibility forced upon the women. If she goes to a bar or party and gets drunk to the point of not remembering and wakes up naked with some guy it is as much her fault as his. It isn't a rape, it is her losing control of herself and doing something stupid. Now please don't get me wrong, if she says no or cries rape at the time then it is rape, but if she doesn't remember because she allowed herself to get that drunk it is a stupid mistake and a lesson to be learned. I have seen far to many lives affected by regret-rape. Why does she get a free pass for being that stupid and not able to control herself or remember what happened?
It is time there was some personal responsibility forced upon the women. If she goes to a bar or party and gets drunk to the point of not remembering and wakes up naked with some guy it is as much her fault as his. It isn't a rape, it is her losing control of herself and doing something stupid. Now please don't get me wrong, if she says no or cries rape at the time then it is rape, but if she doesn't remember because she allowed herself to get that drunk it is a stupid mistake and a lesson to be learned. I have seen far to many lives affected by regret-rape. Why does she get a free pass for being that stupid and not able to control herself or remember what happened?
Very sensible, like many politically incorrect statements.
It is high time that men started taking back the dignity that has been wrenched and weaseled from them. One problem is that doing so is hard when there is still so much gender injustice towards women around - especially in wages. It doesn't take much research to determine that companies managed by women are not necessarily fairer to women than companies managed by men. There is a strong culture of misandry in Canada today and it should be winkled out as determinedly as is misogyny.
While I get what you're saying, there is no one type of drunk-rape. A lot of people get hung up on the fact that some drunk rapes might be 'regret-rapes'. But there are a lot of other ways rape happens when alcohol is involved. There's the drunk and fighting someone off, drunk and yelling no, drunk and protesting, drunk and mumbling protest, drunk and physically resisting, drunk and physically unable to resist, drunk and completely unaware of what's even happening physically, and drunk to the point of unconsciousness.
When a woman wakes up in the morning, how is she to know which it was? The fact of the matter is that much like men will screw up and drink too much, women will too, and it's not open season when they do. So while telling women to be careful and keep their wits about them is fine, saying that it's their fault if they don't and they get raped, is just plain wrong.
I am not saying girls don't get taken advantage of. I'm saying they have to bear some responsibility for their condition. If he and she are both drunk beyond remembering I don't believe it is rape.
There are many situations that are rape and many that aren't but it is certainly not always rape but society seems bent on making it that way.
If she cannot remember what happened she's in no position to make an accusation as serious as rape. When our entire dating/sexual culture requires men (generally) to pursue while women pretend to withdraw ("being coquettish"), the issue of consent is necessarily vague. Men and women are supposed to be legally equal. Sexuality is women's greatest advantage socially. Don't be accusing men of rape without evidence. Being drunk does not obviate consent apparently given, and no man expects to hear, "I hereby agree to have sex with you", as a precondition to sexual intercourse.
How can you believe it's not rape based on how drunk he is? Do you think all 'black out drunk' men rape non-violently? I've seen black out drunk men get in fist fights, drive drunk, start fires, so, I find it hard to believe how drunk a man is dictates what he did or didn't do.
Really, it's our greatest advantage? You were just posting about inequality in pay, which is directly tied to our sexuality. Our sexuality is a massive hinderance. It is a gaping vulnerability. It is weakness, it is instability, it is the possibility of being taken out of the workforce. It's not all good.
That is a little one-sided considering the current legal theory of too drunk to give consent. Really more sexist than anything. She can use drunkeness to call rape but he can't use it as a defense. That position hardly screams equality and doesn't really pass the laugh test. Why is he responsible when he is drunk but she isn't when she is drunk. There is no fairness in that and the law is supposed to be fair, not sexist. In fact a law that is sexist is unconstitutional.
The big reason I posted it, is to point out the fact that you're painting a picture in your head of all instances being the same, and being able to predict how it happened based on alcohol being involved, and it's flawed. That's why the courts still have problems prosecuting, even when it seems clear cut.
The fact that there are cases that are false accusations, doesn't erase the facts of actual cases, and doesn't mean that actual victims hold blame.
Gender is the liability side. Sexuality is the asset side. The victim card is specific to circumstances. Women are not always the victim. One problem is that a lot of men are socialize to never complain, while a lot of women seem socialized to always complain. Being a man is often a disadvantage.
sexuality and gender aren't always separate issues. While sexuality can play in our favour, it's also a downfall. Like the receptionist who gets fired because the wife finds her threatening. Or the woman who doesn't get the job at all because the boss is scared she'll get knocked up and quit.
Being a man can be a disadvantage, so can being a woman. It's not a contest. It's just life.
As for women 'not always being the victim', that's a weak reason to advocate women being somehow held responsible if they are raped under certain circumstances.
Nobody here has advocated any such thing. Unusually, you've simply encountered a bunch of guys who were willing to whisper that the emperor wore no clothes.
No means no and if she can't say no or yes, then it's still no. Period, no excuses, end of discussion. I don't care if she's lying there naked with her legs spread.
Man up princess. This is one of those situations where it is all the man's responsibility.
Simple. if you're not sure, the answer is no. If you think consent is "vague", then the answer is no. If you don't have a definitive "let's fu ck", then the answer is no.
You really have to ask this?
It's called a weak man trying to slough off his responsibilities.
Kind of looked that way. I'm not sure why I'd come to such a conclusion. But when you're saying that there are limits on when women should go to the police, you're kind of saying they're to be held responsible.
Unusually? You think living in Alberta in farming communities and around rig hands, that you're 'unusual'? Sorry but you're astoundingly unremarkable.
Normally Gerry I would agree but there has to be some responsibility on females sometimes. You saying a woman bears no responsibility for her own actions once again shows your chauvinism and mysoginistic belief.
I'm not saying there aren't legitimate rape cases. I'm saying there are circumstances surrounding use of alcohol and drugs by both parties where responsibility has to be born by both. Giving a woman free reign to get drunk or stoned to the point of not remembering and then cry rape is not tteaching personal responsibility or promoting equality.
I'm not saying there aren't legitimate rape cases. I'm saying there are circumstances surrounding use of alcohol and drugs by both parties where responsibility has to be born by both. Giving a woman free reign to get drunk or stoned to the point of not remembering and then cry rape is not tteaching personal responsibility or promoting equality.
Fine, then I am proud to be a chauvinist and a misogynist and am proud I am teaching my boys the same. They know that I will castrate them if I ever find that they have made excuses like you, tober, and many other weak minded useless males when it comes to making excuses for getting laid.
I have never needed to get a girl drunk to get laid and never wanted a girl that was that drunk and was never in a condition to not be in control of my faculties, but that is me not everyone else.
Your opinion that it is fine for a girl to use alcohol or drugs to the point of not being in control of herself or her actions and not remembering is narcissistic at best and more like a feeble attempt to keep women in servitude. You are saying women are weak and feeble and allowances have to be made by the superior male gender. Of course we have been down this road before with your antiquated chauvinism.
So just to be clear I do not condone rape and if she says no in any way it is rape. What I am also saying is she is not allowed to use the excuse of loss of control or memory to call rape when at the time she was willing. I don't care how you try to spin it women have to be just as responsible for their consumption of alcohol or drugs as a man and just as responsible for their actions and choices in that condition. Remember we are talking about them putting themselves in that condition not being given spiked drinks or such. It is just like DUI, she is just as liable as a he when drunk behind the wheel and she is just as liable as a he for any other actions when intoxicated.
Glad to see you admit it. Now maybe you will find the help you need to see women as equals.
and I would want to do that why? I'm all about chauvinism and being misogynous, remember?