Climate-Denier Scientist Caught Accepting Bribes from Koch Brothers

Tonington

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Right, I said he has a history of finding journals with reduced standards. I never said the peer review process is meaningless. That's a strawman argument.

Peer review is the gold standard, but that doesn't mean it's infallible. Just because one surgeon botches a heart transplant doesn't mean all heart transplants are meaningless. That's a wide frigging brush Gerry. 8O
 

Locutus

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ladies and gentlemen...waldo has been reduced to talking just at gerry now. well done.

 

gerryh

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Right, I said he has a history of finding journals with reduced standards. I never said the peer review process is meaningless. That's a strawman argument.

Peer review is the gold standard, but that doesn't mean it's infallible. Just because one surgeon botches a heart transplant doesn't mean all heart transplants are meaningless. That's a wide frigging brush Gerry. 8O


No, what YOU have done is shown that the peer review process can very easily be taken over by persons with an agenda. What YOU have done is cast a very large shadow over the entire process. If the process can be prostituted by the "anti" AGW crowd, then the same can happen within the "pro" AGW crowd. What YOU have shown those of us that are not "scientists" is that the "gold standard" of peer review is quite possibly just pyrite.
 
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Tonington

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No, what YOU have done is shown that the peer review process can very easily be taken over by persons with an agenda.

Yes. That is most definitely what I have done. It's illogical however to jump from that fact to a conclusion that the process then is meaningless. There is a reason that some journals are more prestigious than others, but still, they're not perfect. Anyone who has worked with this system knows this very well. People die in hospitals, I still go to visit a doctor. People die in plane crashes, I still fly. People lose money investing, I still put money into RRSPs.

That said, if you have a better idea or even an alternative that is not better but equal for testing ideas, I'm all ears.
 

gerryh

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Yes. That is most definitely what I have done. It's illogical however to jump from that fact to a conclusion that the process then is meaningless. There is a reason that some journals are more prestigious than others, but still, they're not perfect. Anyone who has worked with this system knows this very well. People die in hospitals, I still go to visit a doctor. People die in plane crashes, I still fly. People lose money investing, I still put money into RRSPs.

That said, if you have a better idea or even an alternative that is not better but equal for testing ideas, I'm all ears.



I don't have an "alternative", all I'm doing is pointing out how a "layman", such as myself, would view these arguments.

"This scientific journal is better than that one and the peer reviews on this one are valid but not valid in that one."

So tell me Ton, how are layman, like myself, supposed to know what is "truth" and what is "bullshyte"?
 

gerryh

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He's pulling a waldo. I aked if the publisher in question has a bad rep and for some reason, no reply.


Some people don't live on the board, Petros. This is Tonnington, you know full well HE doesn't pull a "waldo".
 

waldo

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Oct 19, 2009
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ladies and gentlemen...waldo has been reduced to talking just at gerry now. well done.

that's quite the moderator's role you're performing here! :mrgreen: You sure are quite preoccupied with your attempts to prod, to goad me! I am quite content and most satisfied to realize I own your azz and you are my little beeatch!

No, what YOU have done is shown that the peer review process can very easily be taken over by persons with an agenda. What YOU have done is cast a very large shadow over the entire process. If the process can be prostituted by the "anti" AGW crowd, then the same can happen within the "pro" AGW crowd. What YOU have shown those of us that are not "scientists" is that the "gold standard" of peer review is quite possibly just pyrite.

considering you're "undecided and on the fence"... that's quite the denier talking point you're playing out. In any case you improperly continue to view the process as review/publish only. A sub-standard paper that makes it through a review and gets published will test the response cycle. Again, as I said, a substandard paper (any paper for that matter) will receive responses/challenges if it is directly challenging the findings of another paper (of other scientists)... and they feel warranted in responding to it. Alternatively, if a substandard paper presents findings that are so counter to the prevailing science (and are not directly challenging another paper)... other scientists may choose to respond to it. Often this latter response is one initiated because a substandard paper gets unwarranted mainstream coverage... as in agenda driven advocacy groups pump the paper's findings into the mainstream.
 

gerryh

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considering you're "undecided and on the fence"...


Being "undecided and on the fence" is the very reason this whole thing is disturbing to me. One less information option that can be trusted.
 

waldo

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Some people don't live on the board, Petros... you know full well HE doesn't pull a "waldo".

another couple of sorry cases I own... so preoccupied with the waldo; forever attempting to marginalize the waldo! :mrgreen: Guys, guys, move along now; I could care less! You're nothing to me but comic relief.

Being "undecided and on the fence" is the very reason this whole thing is disturbing to me. One less information option that can be trusted.

drama queen! On the broader level, peer-review/response works quite well. Of course, it's not infallible... but it is, ultimately, self-correcting.
 

gerryh

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another couple of sorry cases I own... so preoccupied with the waldo; forever attempting to marginalize the waldo! :mrgreen: Guys, guys, move along now; I could care less! You're nothing to me but comic relief.

fu ck off dipshyte. You are getting VERY tiresome.


drama queen! On the broader level, peer-review/response works quite well. Of course, it's not infallible... but it is, ultimately, self-correcting.


Drama queen eh... I guess I'm done with you...... for now.
 

waldo

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fu ck off dipshyte. You are getting VERY tiresome.

read your post azzhole... you take a shot. And, oh my... you sure don't like return fire! :mrgreen:

Drama queen eh... I guess I'm done with you...... for now.

yes, you are! But don't let that get in the way of your described "truth-seeking"! Add that to your nonsense over that wiki page and in just a few short posts you clearly showed your drama pursuit. Here's another clue for you. As the self-described "layman" you claim you are, you're not going to be looking toward individual papers for your "truth" (you certainly shouldn't be as you're not going to, typically, understand them anyway)... and most are behind paywalls for that matter. Of course, what you should be doing is looking to avenues that provide broad summary evaluations of the collective science and related papers... with those particularly targeting the general public 'layperson'.
 

waldo

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and then there were none. :lol:

clearly... I own you! You're fixated with me... I'm in your head! Thread after thread, you take your pissant juvenile shots at me and you/your posse have a grand yukfest... (well, I presume that's what your posse is up to... since I have them ON IGNORE!). Cause it's really all you've got to contribute... well, other than your C&P gems from your regular go-to stable of shyte-house denier blogs and twitter feeds. I thought I might respond to a few of your more recent C&P fails... but I wasn't sure if they were just from "Locutus the Fisher" :mrgreen:
that's quite the moderator's role you're performing here! :mrgreen: You sure are quite preoccupied with your attempts to prod, to goad me! I am quite content and most satisfied to realize I own your azz and you are my little beeatch!
hey Locutus... about your denier C&P gems. Only you follow this same ridiculous drill, over and over again. Why do you think no one else follows your stoopid lead and throws back reams of reams of C&P gems from the proponent side? Do you not realize there's a brazillion sites out there that regularly (daily to hourly) list and catalog articles that support the science, that support the AGW theory, that highlight empirical evidence, that identify new papers, etc.. Do you not think there are any proponents regularly tweeting? Hey Locutus, just how lacking in your own denier position are you... just how much stroking do you need?

oh... and countdown to the standard Locutus comeback... something about MAD! :mrgreen:
 
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waldo

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I can't read you poor lil' petros! Please don't hurt yourself with all your marginalization attempts! I might be off for a few days... take care of the board... you live on!
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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I don't have an "alternative", all I'm doing is pointing out how a "layman", such as myself, would view these arguments.

"This scientific journal is better than that one and the peer reviews on this one are valid but not valid in that one."

So tell me Ton, how are layman, like myself, supposed to know what is "truth" and what is "bullshyte"?

Nobody has an alternative. There isn't anything better, which isn't a problem with the process. It's a human problem. The number of different biases categorized numbers in the multiples of tens. Peer review, when it's done well minimizes the contributions our biases make. But it will never be perfect. Even if it were perfect, that is still no guarantee that all the findings will be correct. Science is performed in a messy world where things aren't perfect.

Likewise, any suggestion I have for you will never be perfect. All I can tell you is if you care about the subject, read about it. Lots of people are experts, some call themselves experts, so read from lots of experts. For example when I was a teenager, I was interested in this subject and wanted to know more. I read some books. Then the internet became more active, people started blogging, including scientists and skeptics. So I read those as well. Ultimately, if you don't educate yourself to the point that you know a lot of the background and principles of a subject, then you're going to have to place trust in institutions. People generally do this all the time. I mean do you take any medications? If so how much do you research yourself, versus trusting the advice of a doctor?

You yourself are an expert. You have a trade ( HVAC if I'm not mistaken?) and you've probably had customers that weren't second guessing or challenging you on everything you say. You probably have also had some that did, and wanted to compare quotes to others. Lots of people with trades that I know rely on word of mouth. What I'm getting at, is that if you want to look into it, you can find out which of the scientists are performing good work, and which aren't. If you don't want to look, then you're not left with much else but to place trust in someone, whether it's someone you know, a source of information you like, or 'experts'.

Anyways, on the subject of Willie Soon, I don't really care that he has been getting his money from outside sources, his employment situation required it. Lots of people do work for money, in fact most of us do. I do care that his work has been bad, and that some people don't care enough to check, but do care enough to make grand claims about other scientists.