I don't see how a single one of those things would be disqualified as art by what I said.
Church legal threat over 'sick and sacrilegious' PlayStation game set in Manchester
- Thread starter Blackleaf
- Start date
I don't see how a single one of those things would be disqualified as art by what I said.
I see this as society gradually taking away personal responsibility. It's been happening for awhile now. Holding someone responsible for an act is passe--better to blame the instigator not the person who actually chooses the wrong path. And I think that is wrong.
I also don't think one can sue based on potential. Sure this game shows potential for instigating others to damage the church. But in the end, IF someone damages it, Sony is not responsible.
I also don't think one can sue based on potential. Sure this game shows potential for instigating others to damage the church. But in the end, IF someone damages it, Sony is not responsible.
Sure! Everything on earth is fair game if one looks at it without any respect for honored things.
The world is by nature is against anything that represents anything spiritual.
Sort of like water things down to where they mean absolutely nothing.
What is held sacred is no longer respected.
There comes a loss of value when life and everything is watered down to mean nothing.
It's like tearing down a house bit by bit because some few folk didn't like it, which after a while, the people give up and allow it to be torn down.
The strength of any nation is in it's structured constitution. Tear at it and the nation will fall.
Which usually collapses from within, more so than from without.
Look at history of the rise and fall of nations.
Are we allowing it to degenerate a nation in the name of liberty, free speech and or free expression?"
There is a saying, "One tree can make a million match sticks, but it only takes one match to destroy a million trees".
Some few individuals willing to make a buck out of desecrating honored traditions, values, will eventually not stop until there is nothing left to desecrate.
Theres got to be some fundamental value to some things in life so that our children may know what or how to value things.
Freedom lives because of responsible people who honor and respect the things of life and are willing to fight to keep them so.
What are we going to allow?
Peace>>>AJ
The world is by nature is against anything that represents anything spiritual.
Sort of like water things down to where they mean absolutely nothing.
What is held sacred is no longer respected.
There comes a loss of value when life and everything is watered down to mean nothing.
It's like tearing down a house bit by bit because some few folk didn't like it, which after a while, the people give up and allow it to be torn down.
The strength of any nation is in it's structured constitution. Tear at it and the nation will fall.
Which usually collapses from within, more so than from without.
Look at history of the rise and fall of nations.
Are we allowing it to degenerate a nation in the name of liberty, free speech and or free expression?"
There is a saying, "One tree can make a million match sticks, but it only takes one match to destroy a million trees".
Some few individuals willing to make a buck out of desecrating honored traditions, values, will eventually not stop until there is nothing left to desecrate.
Theres got to be some fundamental value to some things in life so that our children may know what or how to value things.
Freedom lives because of responsible people who honor and respect the things of life and are willing to fight to keep them so.
What are we going to allow?
Peace>>>AJ
See, if someone were to depict my place of work being blown up or shot to bits, and call it entertainment, market it to kids, I really truly feel THEY are being irresponsible. But, they get to throw up their hands, call it art and freedom of speech, and avoid all responsibility for the impact it has. And I'm not even talking potential danger. I'm talking personal, and social impact. If they're undermining your work (yeah, try to teach kids to leave gun violence behind when they head home afterward and get to shoot the place up), and undermining your personal sense of safety, then they have committed an irresponsible act. Where's their personal responsibility?
Well, Karrie, where's the personal responsibility of the parents to teach the children between the nature of art and the nature of reality, and the relationship between the two?
Winston Churchill, when asked if the National Theatre* should be closed during the Blitz, answered, "Keeping it open is why we are at war."
The great redemption of humankind is art, our symbolic representations of our lives and the meanings we attach to them. This is how we make sense of ourselves, and our most popular entertainments and artworks are often a reflection of the mood, the spirit, the concerns of the present day.
We live in meaninglessly violent times; is it any wonder our art reflects this?
During the horror of the Spanish Civil War, Picasso painted Guernica, a massive mural of humans and animals torn, twisted and destroyed by fighting. To stand in front of it and really look at it is to be degraded and uplifted at the same time.
And sometimes art is just for the money. Even great art.
Pangloss
* If anyone remembers the Churchill exchange better than I just did, pm me. I'm not sure if it was the National Theatre he was talking about.
- p
Winston Churchill, when asked if the National Theatre* should be closed during the Blitz, answered, "Keeping it open is why we are at war."
The great redemption of humankind is art, our symbolic representations of our lives and the meanings we attach to them. This is how we make sense of ourselves, and our most popular entertainments and artworks are often a reflection of the mood, the spirit, the concerns of the present day.
We live in meaninglessly violent times; is it any wonder our art reflects this?
During the horror of the Spanish Civil War, Picasso painted Guernica, a massive mural of humans and animals torn, twisted and destroyed by fighting. To stand in front of it and really look at it is to be degraded and uplifted at the same time.
And sometimes art is just for the money. Even great art.
Pangloss
* If anyone remembers the Churchill exchange better than I just did, pm me. I'm not sure if it was the National Theatre he was talking about.
- p
Lack of moral integrity is the law of the lawless, thus the responsibility is on the moral character of the good people who have a concern for decency, heritage and preservation of things sacred.
Notice I said good people? Not the religious but the good people. For good people are found in every race, religion and country.
Lets be heard that we want to leave this place a better place for our children who have not yet had an opportunity to see what we are leaving them.
The strength of a country or country hangs in the balance of it’s good people.
Peace>>>AJ
One would think God could take care of this on his own. BUT...I know thats just crazy talk. The church proobably needs new cushions for the pews, so God( so we'll be led to believe) in his wisdom will, no doubt, initiate a Holy Lawsuit through his appointed agents on earth: Lawyers.
Your point Pangloss is a good one, but is there a line or a point where decency, honor is compromised for the sake of the almighty dollar?
Peace>>>AJ
Peace>>>AJ
God works through the good people. But the people must latch on to God, otherwise, we are on our own.
Sort of like the saying, "you make your bed, you sleep in it".
With freedom comes responsibility of respect towards others and property.
The lust of money has a way of corrupting a good thing.
Peace>>>AJ
Yeah, this issue is prety much a non-starter
Where was the hue and cry when the Eiffel Tower got blown up in Twisted Metal??
And really, Karrie, the way you are suggesting it, you seem to be saying that nothing "real" can be used in art in ways that folks associated with said "real thing" would disagree with, which is not realistic
I mean, a game about gang-raping women, I could see a LOT of problems with, even if it happened in "Fantasy town", and I could see the objections. A game set in a real place featuring real historical landmarks, I can't see the problem.
There is some choice irony in here tho, I must agree with Pangloss
What about a game based on Operation Desert Storm?? Would you understand if there was a GIANT outcry about that from Iraqis seeking damages?? Seems like only white christainity is allowed any real outrage anymore, as the reactions to them "Prophet" cartoons pretty much showed- many folks called the complaints againts them "frivolous"
I wonder how many folks who "laughed" at the folks complaining about the cartoons are here defending the church in this matter?? (I might go search that out later)
Where was the hue and cry when the Eiffel Tower got blown up in Twisted Metal??
And really, Karrie, the way you are suggesting it, you seem to be saying that nothing "real" can be used in art in ways that folks associated with said "real thing" would disagree with, which is not realistic
I mean, a game about gang-raping women, I could see a LOT of problems with, even if it happened in "Fantasy town", and I could see the objections. A game set in a real place featuring real historical landmarks, I can't see the problem.
There is some choice irony in here tho, I must agree with Pangloss
What about a game based on Operation Desert Storm?? Would you understand if there was a GIANT outcry about that from Iraqis seeking damages?? Seems like only white christainity is allowed any real outrage anymore, as the reactions to them "Prophet" cartoons pretty much showed- many folks called the complaints againts them "frivolous"
I wonder how many folks who "laughed" at the folks complaining about the cartoons are here defending the church in this matter?? (I might go search that out later)
Maybe the Church of England would be better served if they threatened to behead the developers of the game over there at Sony.
Now, if you can come up with ANYwhere where I've ever said that parents don't have a MASSIVE responsibility to their kids, then I'd like to see it. But, our society is naive to think that people are parenting in a vacuum. That the parents are the sole ones responsible, the sole people influencing their children's formation, is a ludicrous idea.
Again, I really truly don't see an entertainment game as art Once it is bought and used. Really. Not one of you has been able to provide me with a solid example of any other 'art' which asks its viewer to change it and mold it to their own ends and desires. At that point, it is no longer 'art' it is 'medium'.
Oh, and I forgot to add... that if you'd read all of my posts on the subject, you'd already know that I do not object to the use of real images, people, etc, in actual art.
Uh huh... I think thats an artificial definition of art.
art is an action, an object, or a collection of actions and objects created with the intention of transmitting emotions and/or ideas, it is a subjective concept.
A stand up comic is an artist, even though he often "breaks the fourth wall" and draws the artist in. A well built car is a work of art. It is subjective.
A video game / Interactive story is art to many, many people.
In this case I think Westminster Abbey needs to grow up. A WWII video game, featuring Britain being over-run, has battles around its land marks. Deal.
I have never EVER head westminster abbey complain about war movies or games which feature battles around the eifel tower, or battles around German/French/Italian Landmarks.
art is an action, an object, or a collection of actions and objects created with the intention of transmitting emotions and/or ideas, it is a subjective concept.
A stand up comic is an artist, even though he often "breaks the fourth wall" and draws the artist in. A well built car is a work of art. It is subjective.
A video game / Interactive story is art to many, many people.
In this case I think Westminster Abbey needs to grow up. A WWII video game, featuring Britain being over-run, has battles around its land marks. Deal.
I have never EVER head westminster abbey complain about war movies or games which feature battles around the eifel tower, or battles around German/French/Italian Landmarks.
See, to me, there's a line there in that one crucial little word... around. Not inside... around.
I'm usually a huge advocate of freedom of artistic expression. But, this is just NOT cool. I may as well drop it, because NO place of work should be subject to this sort of thing. In today's culture of war and fear, no one should have to deal with this sort of thing.
Well the crucial word doesn't exist in reality.
I have played games where I sit in a snipers nest on the Eifel tower.
I have watched movies where the white house is blown up or where gun fights erupt.
Westminster abbey needs to deal with it, as it didn't mind before.
I have played games where I sit in a snipers nest on the Eifel tower.
I have watched movies where the white house is blown up or where gun fights erupt.
Westminster abbey needs to deal with it, as it didn't mind before.
I never accused you of such a thing - good luck finding it. I was pointing out where the responsibility begins and ends. Of course the media, peer groups and teachers have a mighty, mighty influence on the kids - but the parents teach the kids how to filter and weigh that influence.
Pangloss
There is a play put on by a local theatre company, and the show is called "Shear Madness." It's a murder mystery and a comedy, and it's interactive - the audience changes the show every night - including choosing who the murderer is.
That's art. It changes every time it is "used" - by the users. Does it make a difference that it is in a theatre and not on a computer at home?
Pangloss
Even copyright laws aren't hard set I believe there is some freedom given when it comes to art and Satire.
Art and satire are given pretty much free reign to do whatever they want. Just ask Weird Al Yankovic. He asks permission, but he doesn't have to.
Pangloss