Chretien: Canada in tough spot over Kosovo

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
No Color..

Greetings!

Suppose a legal mechanism did exist for those eager to persue separation...and that mechanism or prossess were simply ignored by the larger body of people/government?

We have ample evidence that when the people of Palestine for instance elect a government that doesn't "suit" the government of Israel and the United States, that the entire process of elections can be simply ignored....
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
True Karrie but what if Quebec unilaterally declares independance regardless of the clarity act which they never supported in the first place?

Cretien has a point.

The two countries are in completely different situations. We don't know at the moment if even a majority of Quebecers want to separate. Nobody has bombed and killed hundreds of Quebecers. Canada has stated that if a majority in Quebec want to separate, we would not stand in their way. I guarantee that Montreal would not want to separate. Should they have to?
 

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
2,233
30
48
44
Montreal
I guarantee that Montreal would not want to separate. Should they have to?

This is indeed one of the big problems for the Quebec seperation movement. If Quebec takes the right to seperate from Canada, then why couldn't parts of Quebec choose to seperate from Quebec or simply, remain in Canada...?
 

dancing-loon

House Member
Oct 8, 2007
2,739
36
48
Canadian Press; February 24, 2008 at 8:06 PM EST - From the Globe and Mail:

Protesters rally against Kosovo independence

MONTREAL — Serbian nationalists gathered Sunday in two more Canadian cities to protest U.S. recognition of Kosovo's declaration of independence.
Close to 200 demonstrators marched through downtown Montreal before holding a vocal but peaceful rally in front of the U.S. consulate.
Several speakers criticized countries like the U.S., France and Germany for quickly endorsing Kosovo's break from Serbia last week.
“The democratic rights of a country are being violated,” organizer Diana Todic said of Serbia. “What precedent are we creating?”
She called on Canada to avoid doing the same, warning it could embolden Quebec sovereigntists.

Several supporters from the Greek Orthodox community also joined in the protest as they, like Serbians, trace their spiritual roots to medieval Kosovo.

While the protest was peaceful, demonstrators did not disguise their enmity for Kosovo's Albanian majority.
One protester's sign read “Albaniens (sic) are immigrants in Serbia.”
“Albanians . . . invaded our province and then settled there and never allowed Serbs to come back,” Ms. Todic said following the rally.
“This is an issue that, for the past 50 years, the rest of the world has known nothing about.”

Canada has so far avoided taking a stand on the Kosovo issue. Many observers have attributed Ottawa's reluctance to concerns about the domestic implications of recognizing a unilateral declaration of independence.

The protest came a day after similarly peaceful event Saturday in Toronto, which drew upward of 2,000 people.
Serbian flags and protest placards dotted a crowd of about 800 who rallied in Vancouver against Kosovo's breakaway move.

“Canada, help Serbia at this difficult time,” pleaded speaker Boris Malagurski, a Serbian-born university student. “Help us and we shall not forget your kindness and will forever be grateful.
“The world must understand that we shall never recognize Kosovo's independence, not now, not in a year, not in a decade, never. Kosovo will remain Serbia forever.”
Mr. Malagurski, who helped organize the rally, said separatist groups in places such as Quebec and Spain's Basque region are watching closely how countries react to Kosovo's move.
“If you break international law once in the case of Serbia, you can't explain to all the other regions why that can't secede,” he said in an interview. “That's why we think the Kosovo secession is very bad for the world right now.”
Mr. Malagurski, 19, said the Albanian-dominated Kosovo government has done nothing to protect minority Serbian rights in the region. He said the best solution for both groups is an autonomous Kosovo as part of a united Serbia.
More protests are planned next weekend in Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
A response from the Harper Government might come this week. Wonder what it will be???
 

no color

Electoral Member
May 20, 2007
349
98
28
1967 World's Fair
No Color..

Greetings!

Suppose a legal mechanism did exist for those eager to persue separation...and that mechanism or prossess were simply ignored by the larger body of people/government?

We have ample evidence that when the people of Palestine for instance elect a government that doesn't "suit" the government of Israel and the United States, that the entire process of elections can be simply ignored....

Palestine is a completely different situation, MikeyDB. If you are referring to the election of Hamas we absolutely can't support this government under any circumstance. We (Canada) and the US as well had categorized Hamas as a terrorist organization well before their election win, and for good reason.

Back to the topic at hand. Yes, a state or province can legally separate from a country, however the same rules also apply to that state or province, it can (and usually will) get partioned. I bet Kosovo will get broken down to allow for the 10% of the Serb population to remain in Serbia.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
No Color

Because the nations most involved in maintaining monarchial and dictatorial oppresive regimes declares Hamas a terrorist group....

Would there be a Hamas if the wealthy nations of this planet had elected to put Israel in Texas?

Who made the mistake here?
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Hey Loonie...My humblest of apologies, I was set straight on you. Thusly, I'll give your posts more attention as well. I erred, my bad.
 

dancing-loon

House Member
Oct 8, 2007
2,739
36
48
Bear, I have forgotten where you erred or were bad, BUT I would appreciate if you in future wouldn't just snap at me like "Hey, Loonie...". You could address me as "Dear Loon..." or "Hello, sweet Loon!" It is never too late to practice some gentlemanly behavior! It surely would be appreciated by the Ladies of this forum.;-)
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Bear, I have forgotten where you erred or were bad, BUT I would appreciate if you in future wouldn't just snap at me like "Hey, Loonie...". You could address me as "Dear Loon..." or "Hello, sweet Loon!" It is never too late to practice some gentlemanly behavior! It surely would be appreciated by the Ladies of this forum.;-)
Ummm...ya...right...I'll get right on that.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree Loonie.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
Bear, I have forgotten where you erred or were bad, BUT I would appreciate if you in future wouldn't just snap at me like "Hey, Loonie...". You could address me as "Dear Loon..." or "Hello, sweet Loon!" It is never too late to practice some gentlemanly behavior! It surely would be appreciated by the Ladies of this forum.;-)

Ummm...ya...right...I'll get right on that.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree Loonie.


ROFLMAO..... the comedy hour....I love it.
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
937
14
18
Albania stated that a pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Albania could be realized only if Kosovo were to be wrenched from Serbia. European countries would benefit and like maggots they swarmed to accept an independent Kosovo.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Albania stated that a pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Albania could be realized only if Kosovo were to be wrenched from Serbia. European countries would benefit and like maggots they swarmed to accept an independent Kosovo.
I like where you're going here...would you happen to have a link please?
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Fear not, I found it...

Note that the first nation to unilaterally recognise Kosovo was the US - and this was in order to ensure ALBANIA remains a puppet of the US Corporatocracy.

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...+control+Caspian+oil&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk


According to leaked comments to the press, European politicians now believe that the US used the bombing of Yugoslavia specifically in order to establish Camp Bondsteel. Before the start of the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999, the Washington Post insisted, “With the Middle-East increasingly fragile, we will need bases and fly over rights in the Balkans to protect Caspian Sea oil.”

The scale of US oil corporations investment in the exploitation of Caspian oil
fields and the US government demand for the economy to be less dependent on imported oil, particularly from the Middle-East, demands a long term solution to the transportation of oil to European and US markets. The US Trade & Development Agency (TDA) has financed initial feasibility studies, with large grants, and more recently advanced technical studies for the New York based AMBO (Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria Oil) Trans-Balkan pipeline.

Link

I really wonder if this will stifle all the anti US types that were supporting this before the US was exposed as having a part to play in further oil exploitation?
 

dancing-loon

House Member
Oct 8, 2007
2,739
36
48
Albania stated that a pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Albania could be realized only if Kosovo were to be wrenched from Serbia. European countries would benefit and like maggots they swarmed to accept an independent Kosovo.
What a bombshell!!! Never thought of it or heard of it until now. That is politics at its best!!

Thanks, einmensch, for joining us and a hearty welcome!;-)
 

dancing-loon

House Member
Oct 8, 2007
2,739
36
48
Canada recognizes Kosovo, Serbia recalls envoy
18/03/2008 3:56:48 PM
About 30 countries, including the U.S. and some European Union nations, quickly recognized Kosovo's declaration of independence from Serbia last month, but Canada held off. There have been concerns that recognizing an independent Kosovo could give ammunition to separatists in Quebec.
.....
"What we have seen is that certain separatist political parties have said clearly -- Bloc Quebecois and Parti Quebecois -- that they support the independence of Kosovo, not because Kosovo deserves it, but because it will be a very useful precedent for themselves in the near future," he said."This dangerous precedent will obviously have a long-term effect on many separatist movements all over the globe, starting from the last corner of Southeast Asia to the northernmost parts of America," Batakovic said.
"Tomorrow afternoon I will present the official protest of the Serbian government to the Canadian government, and I will be recalled for consultations in Belgrade within 48 hours."
Batakovic added that Ottawa's move will fuel Quebec separatism.

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/Top..._kosovo_080318
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, we did it anyway. Perhaps Harper shrugs his shoulders over Quebec.... so what? let them separate. Kosovo's independence is probably more important than keeping Quebec in Canada. Cest la vie!! Change is inthe making!


 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario

So, we did it anyway. Perhaps Harper shrugs his shoulders over Quebec.... so what? let them separate. Kosovo's independence is probably more important than keeping Quebec in Canada. Cest la vie!! Change is inthe making!


Do you know or are you even capable of recognizing the monumental difference between the two situations?
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
55
Oshawa
Do you know or are you even capable of recognizing the monumental difference between the two situations?

If Quebec were to unilateraly declare separaiton from Canada without a referendum should we let them and should the international community recognize them as a seperate state?

If not, why?