No.....I didn't.......and considering Lily got banned for coming back under another name... then I think Andem has some checking to do.
Chretien: Canada in tough spot over Kosovo
- Thread starter dancing-loon
- Start date
No.....I didn't.......and considering Lily got banned for coming back under another name... then I think Andem has some checking to do.
Ya...... you're a racist....your comments concerning Jews are racist....your comments about First Nations are racist....you're a fricken racist.
Kosovo Serbs hold protest march in divided town
Up to 2,000 Serbs marched through the Kosovo town of Kosovka Mitrovica in a sixth day of protest against Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence.
KFOR soldiers from France stop a Kosovo Serb crossing through their checkpoint on the main road connecting Belgrade with the ethnically divided town of Kosovska Mitrovica, near the village of Jarinje, Kosovo, Saturday, Feb. 23, 2008. (AP Photo/Bela Szandelszky)
They chanted "Kosovo is Serbia!" and "Russia, Vladimir Putin" as U.N. police in riot gear kept them from entering the Albanian side of the divided city.
The protesters acknowledged Putin because he has be one of the strongest opponents of the independence gambit, one supported by the United States and most of the European Union.
Serbs comprise about 10 per cent of Kosovo's two million residents. Virtually everyone else are ethnic Albanians who are moderate Muslims.
Saturday's protest saw some firecrackers tossed, but on Friday, demonstrators tossed stones and glass bottles at UN forces.
In Canada, Serbian Canadians plan to hold demonstrations later today against Kosovo's declaration.
On Thursday, angry Serbs in Belgrade attacked the U.S. embassy, tossing Molotov cocktails and breaking windows.
........
Canada doesn't appear to be a target because Canada hasn't recognized Kosovo's declaration of independence. "The Canadian embassy is functioning quite normally," he said.
http://tinyurl.com/ypl9rk
Europe's "hot spot" .... will it ever normalize itself? I feel doubtful.
Up to 2,000 Serbs marched through the Kosovo town of Kosovka Mitrovica in a sixth day of protest against Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence.
CTV.ca News Staff
KFOR soldiers from France stop a Kosovo Serb crossing through their checkpoint on the main road connecting Belgrade with the ethnically divided town of Kosovska Mitrovica, near the village of Jarinje, Kosovo, Saturday, Feb. 23, 2008. (AP Photo/Bela Szandelszky)
They chanted "Kosovo is Serbia!" and "Russia, Vladimir Putin" as U.N. police in riot gear kept them from entering the Albanian side of the divided city.
The protesters acknowledged Putin because he has be one of the strongest opponents of the independence gambit, one supported by the United States and most of the European Union.
Serbs comprise about 10 per cent of Kosovo's two million residents. Virtually everyone else are ethnic Albanians who are moderate Muslims.
Saturday's protest saw some firecrackers tossed, but on Friday, demonstrators tossed stones and glass bottles at UN forces.
In Canada, Serbian Canadians plan to hold demonstrations later today against Kosovo's declaration.
On Thursday, angry Serbs in Belgrade attacked the U.S. embassy, tossing Molotov cocktails and breaking windows.
........
Canada doesn't appear to be a target because Canada hasn't recognized Kosovo's declaration of independence. "The Canadian embassy is functioning quite normally," he said.
http://tinyurl.com/ypl9rk
Europe's "hot spot" .... will it ever normalize itself? I feel doubtful.
US starts evacuation from Serbia
One person died and more than 100 were injured in the riots
The US embassy in Serbia has begun pulling out non-essential staff following the storming of the building on Thursday. Around 1,000 protesters set fire to the embassy in Belgrade in protest at Washington's support for Kosovo's declaration of independence.
A convoy of around 40 cars carrying American staff and family members has now left Belgrade.
.........
Several other embassies of countries seen by the protesters as supporting Kosovo were also targeted, but they have not announced plans to withdraw staff.
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The minister responsible for Kosovo, Slobodan Samardzic, said the US was to blame for the violence. "The root of violence is the violation of international law", he said.
"The Serbian government will continue to call on the US to take responsibility for violating international law and taking away a piece of territory from Serbia".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7260613.stm
I think removing themselves for awhile is a smart decision by the US. It will remove some oil from the fire.
So far, Canada hasn't made up its mind about recognizing Kosovo's independence. I always beg for Canada to stay neutral when it has no business taking sides in other peoples' disputes.
One person died and more than 100 were injured in the riots
The US embassy in Serbia has begun pulling out non-essential staff following the storming of the building on Thursday. Around 1,000 protesters set fire to the embassy in Belgrade in protest at Washington's support for Kosovo's declaration of independence.
A convoy of around 40 cars carrying American staff and family members has now left Belgrade.
.........
Several other embassies of countries seen by the protesters as supporting Kosovo were also targeted, but they have not announced plans to withdraw staff.
.......
The minister responsible for Kosovo, Slobodan Samardzic, said the US was to blame for the violence. "The root of violence is the violation of international law", he said.
"The Serbian government will continue to call on the US to take responsibility for violating international law and taking away a piece of territory from Serbia".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7260613.stm
I think removing themselves for awhile is a smart decision by the US. It will remove some oil from the fire.
So far, Canada hasn't made up its mind about recognizing Kosovo's independence. I always beg for Canada to stay neutral when it has no business taking sides in other peoples' disputes.
Well yes he is, he has a good point, and he kinda brought up a point I didn't think of.
But
The difference between Quebec, Scottland, Wales, and the sort..... is that we're not killing each other.
Sure back in the day we all did. And sure we still have people flinging insults and poutine at one another, but we're not out there genociding the place. Don't forget it was only a few years ago they were at each other's throats. They apparently still are. Seperate the two and leave it at that.
The moment we start seeing Quebec hanging the entire Maple Leaf's team on a bridge after a game, then maybe we should think about it.
But then again, breaking international law isn't all that cool..... sure it seems to be the trend these days, but I think it's starting to go a little too far.
I think Kosovo is for the people of Kosovo to decide. If the population there wants to be their own country then they do not need permission by anyone to do so. How can any people be denied the right to self-government and sovereignty? Also international law is meaningless. The same law handed over Czechs to the Nazis and carved up the Middle East to imperial powers. Some group behind an open or closed door have no say in the affairs of people or their aspirations.
As for the references being made between Canada's regions pushing for their own independence the fact is if any region had a fair referendum on the question and the majority approved self-determination there is nothing Canada can do about it. If people are free to enter into the Dominion then they should be free to leave. There is no law saying that a province has to remain forever a province. I think the formula adopted would be similar to what Newfoundland did to join Canada. They had a vote and finally 52.3% voted for joining confederation then negotiations took place after. Although it wasn't the fairest vote since the peoples choices were limited. But debts, resource management, and all those items were then negotiated on before joining the confederation and all those things would be negotiated again on the departure I imagine as well. So I'm not sure why people even make an issue of the “threat of separatism” when it really is no issue at all. If people feel they can achieve a higher standard of living or more opportunities outside of confederation then all the power to them.
As for the references being made between Canada's regions pushing for their own independence the fact is if any region had a fair referendum on the question and the majority approved self-determination there is nothing Canada can do about it. If people are free to enter into the Dominion then they should be free to leave. There is no law saying that a province has to remain forever a province. I think the formula adopted would be similar to what Newfoundland did to join Canada. They had a vote and finally 52.3% voted for joining confederation then negotiations took place after. Although it wasn't the fairest vote since the peoples choices were limited. But debts, resource management, and all those items were then negotiated on before joining the confederation and all those things would be negotiated again on the departure I imagine as well. So I'm not sure why people even make an issue of the “threat of separatism” when it really is no issue at all. If people feel they can achieve a higher standard of living or more opportunities outside of confederation then all the power to them.
Re: Kosovo Declaration of Independence
The Right Honourable Jean Chrétien P.C., C.C., Q.C., the 20th Prime Minister of Canada, is quite correct in that Canada is in a “delicate” position. However, notwithstanding whatever similarities, if any, that there are between the Province of Québec and the Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metahija, the fact remains that Kosovo has not declared independence through a constitutional channel and therefore such a declaration is null and void. Any such valid declaration must have the constitutional weight of the National Assembly of the Republic of Serbia.
The Right Honourable Jean Chrétien P.C., C.C., Q.C., the 20th Prime Minister of Canada, is quite correct in that Canada is in a “delicate” position. However, notwithstanding whatever similarities, if any, that there are between the Province of Québec and the Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metahija, the fact remains that Kosovo has not declared independence through a constitutional channel and therefore such a declaration is null and void. Any such valid declaration must have the constitutional weight of the National Assembly of the Republic of Serbia.
It's amusing to read how one nations government "ought" to abide by U.N. resolutions and behave as part of the community of nations while invading Iraq and continued denial by the government of Israel are deemed perfectly OK!
I suppose since this is an 'opinion' board, and the right to hold opinions that differ from the "norm" is acceptable and protected under the Canadian Charter the effort to reduce intelligent conversations to name-calling and lower the tone to schoolyard rhetoric is just part of the mix. It does get tiresome though....
Jean Chretien kept Canada out of the illegal American invaison of Iraq, unfortunately the financial umbilical cords that bind the Canadian economy to the American economy wouldn't stand the strain of telling the Bush War Machine to screw-off when it came to Afghanistan. Stephen Harper (a Bush family idiot child) thinks (yes I'm being kind..) that appeasing the military industrial complex of the Bush War Machine will strengthen Canada's position economically....
Kosovo recieved recognition from France Italy and the United States because they're populations have been conditioned to accept that "appeasement" is the modern substitute for diplomacy and negotiated settlement....
While it's just Oh So insightful to rage against government and people who disagree with your opinion in childish terms that leave little doubt regarding the depth of understanding involved, Chretien is absolutely right. Yes the government structures are different and no nation has ever ceded from its original mother-state without violence, it is the United Staes Britain and others who coerced land from Palestine and under force of arms pressured the world to accept the creation and maintenance of the state of Israel.
Double standards abound!
I suppose since this is an 'opinion' board, and the right to hold opinions that differ from the "norm" is acceptable and protected under the Canadian Charter the effort to reduce intelligent conversations to name-calling and lower the tone to schoolyard rhetoric is just part of the mix. It does get tiresome though....
Jean Chretien kept Canada out of the illegal American invaison of Iraq, unfortunately the financial umbilical cords that bind the Canadian economy to the American economy wouldn't stand the strain of telling the Bush War Machine to screw-off when it came to Afghanistan. Stephen Harper (a Bush family idiot child) thinks (yes I'm being kind..) that appeasing the military industrial complex of the Bush War Machine will strengthen Canada's position economically....
Kosovo recieved recognition from France Italy and the United States because they're populations have been conditioned to accept that "appeasement" is the modern substitute for diplomacy and negotiated settlement....
While it's just Oh So insightful to rage against government and people who disagree with your opinion in childish terms that leave little doubt regarding the depth of understanding involved, Chretien is absolutely right. Yes the government structures are different and no nation has ever ceded from its original mother-state without violence, it is the United Staes Britain and others who coerced land from Palestine and under force of arms pressured the world to accept the creation and maintenance of the state of Israel.
Double standards abound!
But of course!
The resolutions set against Israel, if followed, would undoubtedly result in widespread death and destruction of Israel.
But you never cease to dive down to that level Mikey. With great ease and lack of thought.
Perhaps, but that's your opinion, the facts of the matter are easier to apply. NATO. End of story.
Sounds like a fair assessment.
Wow, you admit that??? Excellent, so how about you actually stop the childish name calling, since you are one of the only two I've seen do it in the past few days.
No he isn't, it was a cheap political move to take a shot at the CPoC. Nothing more, nothing less.
True, but the passive aggressive nature of Kosovo's Muslims, the propaganda purchased by the UN, MSM and NATO on the state of affairs that that precipitated this situation, have placed a greater weight on the international community to move cautiously. Which they didn't. They dove head long into 'appeasement'.
Sometimes double standards have a place. Or should 12 year olds be allowed to drive to?
I would have to declare international law to be absurd.
1.) The people declare Sovereignty
2.) Serbia had no right to include Kosovo as part of it.
Technically Kosovo is still part of Yugoslavia. In 2006 Serbia itself declared independance from Yugoslavia.
This is akin to Southern Quebec declaring Independance and then claiming northern Quebec has no right to either counter-declare independance or simply remain part of Canada.
If Serbia wanted to keep Kosovo maybe it shouldn't have declared independance.
Every single current Nation of Former Yugoslavia has declared independance unilaterally. Including Serbia.
The absurdity of international law is that it omits to recognize the greater reality of the human condition. It's always been the wealthy and powerful who have waged war on the masses. It's always been the biggest military and the government held in the grip of the "business community" that's cultivated an opportunity for war.
International "law" predicated on the premise that member nations would behave according to that "law" has been seen to be a mere pipedream... and will remain a pipedream so long as the wealthy and powerful regard their interests ahead of anyone and everyone else.
That's the sorry state of the human condition. Fervent patriotism (usually underwritten by greed and/or "religion" are the instruments of humankinds failures not the "solution" as any unbiased examination of both "religion" and "government" reveals.
We'll continue to play these games about wealth and invisible creator beings until the planet becomes un-ihabitable......
International "law" predicated on the premise that member nations would behave according to that "law" has been seen to be a mere pipedream... and will remain a pipedream so long as the wealthy and powerful regard their interests ahead of anyone and everyone else.
That's the sorry state of the human condition. Fervent patriotism (usually underwritten by greed and/or "religion" are the instruments of humankinds failures not the "solution" as any unbiased examination of both "religion" and "government" reveals.
We'll continue to play these games about wealth and invisible creator beings until the planet becomes un-ihabitable......
Looking at it from that perspective, I could only agree.
It doesn't change the facts none the less.
Hopefully you will have moved on or shed your earthly coil before then...at the very least, flipped the record.
If Quebec were to declare unilateral seperation from Canada we would be hypocits if we didn't recognise it as we are about to do with Kosovo. The clarity act makes it even more sticky by setting out rules for seperation and future referendums.
It's quite simple really.
How far do we go Avro...how far do we bend to appease the Muslims?
How far do we go to appease Kebec?
What you are supporting is divide over 'ethnic' lines, not over freedom. And please don't tell me that the Muslim Albanians are oppressed, subjugated, or any other crap like that.
They are far from free of any guilt.
But we have a clarity act, and rules for separation. We have a willingness to allow separation if the majority want it. That doesn't really compare to Kosovo and Serbia.
Perhaps people would be happier if the Six Nations supported violent native land claims after having been ignored and mistreated for generations...or some other agent in some foreign country decided that this group or that group had a legitimate greivance and demonstrated a willingness to supply/support this perceived-as disenfranchised population...
It's been made abundantly clear that if you question the motives of America in supporting Israel that you're an anti-Semite....if you argue the disentitlement of the Palestinian people by the government of Israel that you're someone who relishes the prospects of another Holocaust....If you raise the issue of Afro-American racism...etc.etc.
The point is that the outsider always has a particular view and a particular perpective...some right (as in adequately informed not the moral variety) but does that perspective permit judgment to be passed and action to be taken...?
If you've got the money weapons and sufficient suport...it certainly appears that it is!
It's been made abundantly clear that if you question the motives of America in supporting Israel that you're an anti-Semite....if you argue the disentitlement of the Palestinian people by the government of Israel that you're someone who relishes the prospects of another Holocaust....If you raise the issue of Afro-American racism...etc.etc.
The point is that the outsider always has a particular view and a particular perpective...some right (as in adequately informed not the moral variety) but does that perspective permit judgment to be passed and action to be taken...?
If you've got the money weapons and sufficient suport...it certainly appears that it is!
Part of the rules for separation also allows for partition. The way a country is divisible, so is a state or province. This has been brought up in Kosovo and will surely be brought up in Quebec if the separatists ever win a future referendum and try to separate. It's unavoidable. Like Kosovo, the issue of seperation best be avoided in Quebec as well as this could bring serious bloodshed and instability when the separated state is partitoned.
In Quebec, the natives would almost certainly partition themselves from a separate Quebec and remain in Canada. Not to mention the western part of Montreal which is mainly English speaking.