pastafarian said:
You give not a single speciifc about why these "Communist Revolutions'" supported by Cuba constitute dangers. Not a single specific about how Cuba has "supported" any of the countries you claim it has or in what way.
The “communist revolutions” speak for themselves throughout the world, including Cuba. Castro as I have mentioned to you previously in this thread, has supported guerilla warfare to overthrow governments for a very long time. Che, Castro’s mate, promised to create quote “One, ten, a hundred Vietnams in Latin America.". But apparently you may consider, all “communist revolutions” to be some sort of God send to the poor. Perhaps you may know of Cuban troops collaborating with the Ethiopian government and starving people to death because of their political affiliations. Or you just choose to dismiss them
pastafarian said:
The US has overthrown more democratic governments and killed more people, either directly or by proxy than the USSR since 1944 at least. To list them will require another thread, but I've got specifics; you have squat
What you perceive to be a “democratic” government, the US perceives it as an overthrow of communist regimes or those with inclinations in becoming communist regimes. If you see that as the largest anti-democratic force in the world, then that’s your right. I see it as halting communism. Having said that, I don’t pretend the US is some sort of saint. It has a history of blood and murder on its hands. To purport that it is inevitably evil and seeks to crush democracy around the world is narrow-minded.
.
pastafarian said:
Leaving out the Cuban missile crisis was a favour to the US, since they backed Cuba into into a corner on it --Bay of Pigs ring a bell?-- and the US would probably have launched a nuke in that situation, like they did on the Japanese. You're lucky you were facing Khrushchev, an intelligent, educated man who realized what was at stake and not a collection of psychopaths and morons like the ones occupying the US government.
I’ll leave the Cuban missile crisis (and the nuke dropped on the Japanese) for another thread if you don’t mind, it may drag out quite a bit and it would certainly get way off topic. Start another thread if you wish.
Krushchev, pastafarian was a man with great contradictions, hence his denunciation of Stalin (But I’m assuming you already know that, which is why I am puzzled by your comparison) . To suggest that he was intelligent and educated does not excuse his actions serving for 20 years under Stalin, ordering the arrests and executions of thousands of Soviet citizens, THAT is a psychopath. That alone, says it all. I’ll borrow your phrase if you don’t mind. You are somehow trying to make a comparison between the Kennedy administration and Krushchev based on that Kennedy wasn’t a saint? Intelligence and education do not denote morality or leadership. To even compare Krushchev with the “morons” in the US government shows your lack of seriousness, objectivity and without a doubt, your moral compass, which amazes me since you have claimed your moral compass to be The Sermon on the Mount, or is it now the flying spaghetti monster? The latter would make more sense.
pastafarian said:
I've reviewed all the posts in the thread. No one has countered Rev Blair's expose of the "missionaries". No one has countered the evidence that AI and HRW reports show improvements since chavez took control. most of the so-called testimonials against Chavez either come from blatant propaganda or mainstream news sources that use CIA press releases in place of journalism, from people whose personal interests are served by eliminating Chavez.
If you'd even looked at the list of concerns of HRW with respect to the US vs Chavez, your position boils down to saying that a serial killer and a shoplifter are equally dangerous because they've both broken the law.
Fact is, Jay, you have shown that you don't want to discuss this honestly by failing to acknowledge the good Chavez has done, how else he can manage his country in the face of constant threats to destroy his economy and overthrow his government. You haven't offered a single speck of evidence that Chavez (or Castro) is dangerous to anyone, except your assertion that it is so.
Castro isn’t dangerous…...anymore, not to the world anyway, since the Soviet Union collapsed and stopped feeding his little leftist guerilla wars all over Latin America. At the moment, Castro is contained into a police state, yes pastafarian, a police state, that abuses and murders his own people, that you somehow wish to diminish by simple comparison with a moron sitting in the White House. If comparison is your moral compass, I suggest you revisit it.
Back on topic, Chavez has done many things for his people, without question, I am still researching the ups and downs of his economic policies and admittedly it may take me longer to figure out because of no objective data readily available. Funny that. And no, I do not consider the Chavez government “objective” when he changes methodologies to project miracles.
At first looks, he seems to base his entire economy on oil, and that’s fine, but what will happen if the price of oil drops to $20? I know exactly what Chavez will do. He'll blame America and the greedy multinationals. The oldest trick in the book is to create a foreign demon to rally your country behind you.
Brazil is a country that has a moderate left-wing President who is also increasing distributions to the poor, has a growing economy, but doesn't have oil to carry him on. Lula has reorganized his countries debt, has been promoting free trade for his country through the WTO, is running a fiscally sound government, and has a currency that is strengthening. So why isn’t the CIA trying to overthrow him? Let me guess, no oil?
No, the issue here is, Lula's not running around like a relic from the 60s pretending to be a new Che, as Chavez is doing. Castro was funded by the Soviet Union and hence has no economic or guerilla warfare power to project, however, Chavez is sitting on billions of barrels of oil, and can fund more “democratic communist revolutions”. Aligning himself with countries known throughout the world to cause trouble (Cuba, Iran, Syria etc…), that have repeatedly rejected Human Rights resolutions doesn’t help matters either.
The more he runs around screaming like Che, the more the US will seek to undermine his efforts. Maybe he should go for coffee over at Lula’s and get some advice.
