Chavez ... Human Rights Violator ... and Liar

pastafarian

Electoral Member
Oct 25, 2005
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if someone steals something from you, will you reward them by appeasing their demands

Well pastafarian, who was responsible for the US blockade? ... Cuba.

Castro has the gull to complain about the US embargo after he confiscated assets and property from US citizens without compensation?

Nasca_James, you bring up a very good point about the appropriate resonse to theft.

Of course the initial theft occurred when Taino-Arawak were wiped out by the Spanish , like all of the original inhabitants of the Carribean Archipelago. As usual they were enslaved, tortured and humiliated first and then all but expunged from the historical record. Compared to Columbus and his masters, the Khmer Rouge were rank amateurs.

Like they always did in the colonies, the European squatters lived off the labours of imported slaves whose blood, sweat and tears made Cuba financially productive for the Spanish gangsters.

But wait, there was a new gang ready to muscle in on the action:

April 25, 1898 The U.S. Congress formally declares war [against Spain], saying that the state of war between the United States and Spain began April 21. In the United States, this is known as the Spanish-American War. In Cuba, it is known as the U.S. intervention in Cuba's War of Independence.

August 12, 1898 Spain and the United States sign a bilateral armistice. Cuba is not represented at the negotiations.

1901 To codify control of Cuba, the U.S. Congress on March 2 adds the Platt Amendment to an Army Appropriations bill. The amendment provides that Cuba has only a limited right to conduct its own foreign policy and debt policy; the United States may intervene militarily at any time....Since the U.S. Government makes it clear that its military occupation will not end until this amendment becomes part of Cuban law, Cuba incorporates the Platt Amendment into its 1901 Constitution.
--Source:Cuba and the United States: A Chronological History
By Jane Franklin

Then, with the rise of Batista:

Connections [of the well-established Dade County Florida Cuban-American crime syndicates] with the American mob were cemented in the latter part of the 1950's when in 1956 Meyer Lansky moved the bulk of his casino operations to Cuba. There he formed a partnership with Santos Trafficante which controlled all the major gambling casinos on the island. The corruption and complete mob control which flourished in Cuba from 1956 to 1959 is paralleled only by what occurred in Chicago during the Capone era.

Everyone, from the policeman on the beat to the President of the Republic, received his cut from the mob.

The Central Intelligence Agency played a big part in the rapid growth of the Cuban syndicate by providing it with expert training in the use of firearms, explosives and clandestine methods of operation.
-Source: Research Papers Organized Crime Training Program
Vol. VIII, ca.1971 THE CUBAN CRIME CONFEDERATION By Rafael Aguirre

Castro was just cleaning up the town and giving something back to the slaves who made cuba economically viable. IS stealing back something that was stolen from you in the first place actually theft, Nascar?

And as to the second point, the Blockade/embargo was specifically created to prevent the influx of weapons and only weapons.

"On October 22, in Washington, President Kennedy issued a proclamation on the "interdiction of the delivery of offensive weapons to Cuba," which was transmitted to all U.S. diplomatic missions overseas for immediate presentation to other Governments. After announcing that the U.S. armed forces had been instructed, as from "2 p.m. Greenwich time October 24," to "interdict the delivery of offensive weapons and associated material to Cuba," the proclamation stated:

The following categories of weapons were declared to be prohibited material: "Surface-to-surface missiles; bomber aircraft; bombs, air-to-surface rockets, and guided missiles; warheads for any of the above weapons; mechanical or electronic equipment to support or operate the above items; and any other classes of material hereafter designated by the Secretary of Defence for the purpose of effectuating this proclamation"

Weapons that Castro was only trying to obtain because the Bay of Pigs gave him the crazy idea that the US was trying to invade.

The fact that the blockade has been used to impoverish the whole Cuban populace for more than forty years and protect Jesse Helms' tobacco interests is just another example of US attempts to light the world with the torch of democracy, right Nascar?

Give it up. US foreign policy has rarely even accidentally been about democracy or freedom.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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To start with I support anyone who puts the run on American missionaries, or missionaries in general, who interfere in the internal affairs of the country they are working.
Hugo Chavez has been elected not once but twice. Chavez was overthrown for a few days by an army coup a few years back, but junior officers remained loyal to him and prevailed in a counter coup. After that Chavez was re-elected by a wide margin.
The rich, the big oil folks, and the trade unions uppper middle income class don't like him.
If you look at South America as a whole you soon see that the entire region is turning away from the United States. Argentina, Brazil, Chile, and most of the other countries are marching with their ballots electing left wing after left wing governments.
America is using right wing Christians especially to go in and make trouble, and its not working.
Soon South America will be totally anti American.
Chavez is at least standing up to the American bullies in the White House. Pat Robertson the great Christian leader has even come out in favor of the Americans committing MURDER to get rid of him.
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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Reuters has it right on. Things are definitely looking up. Looks like even Mexico is turning against Chavez. The world is waking up and seeing him for the dictator and human rights violator he really is.

Read on ...

Reuters: Mexico Calls Chavez An Embarassment

Reuters:

Mexico ruling party head says Chavez embarrassment
Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:07 PM ET

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - The head of Mexico's ruling party called Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez an embarrassment to his country on Thursday in a diplomatic fight over free trade in Latin America.

Mexico and Venezuela withdrew their ambassadors this week after angry exchanges over Mexico's support for U.S. plans to set up a regional free-trade pact. Chavez dubbed Mexican President Vicente Fox a U.S. imperialist "lap dog."

Manuel Espino, the head of Fox's National Action Party, said he asked a body that brings together some 30 conservative parties from the Americas to support the end of Chavez's government.

Espino said conservative parties in the region rejected "Chavez's shameful attitude which denigrates Latin American politics, embarrasses the Venezuelan people and attacks the sovereignty of the Mexican people."

He said the first step in Chavez's downfall should be the defeat of pro-Chavez candidates at parliamentary elections on Dec 4.

"I have asked the political parties to join in solidarity with the Venezuelan people to come together to weaken Hugo Chavez's authoritarianism in December and to change the government in Venezuela next year," Espino said.

His comments, in the northern city of Monterrey, were reported on the El Universal newspaper's Web site.

Venezuela holds a presidential election in December 2006, and Chavez, buoyed by soaring oil revenues and popular support, looks set to win.

Mexico has insisted that Caracas apologize for remarks by Chavez, who also told Fox last weekend, "Don't mess with me, mister, or you'll get stung."

The United States, the main foe of Chavez, says the Venezuelan leader is funding anti-democratic groups in the region, eroding human rights in Venezuela and building up his military unnecessarily.

Chavez denies the accusations. He taps into anti-American sentiment in the region by complaining U.S. President George W. Bush is a warmonger who is pushing free-trade economics so U.S. companies can dominate Latin American markets.

Washington on Thursday accused Chavez of making new enemies abroad to fire up supporters at home with demagoguery, such as saying Washington plans to invade his country.

Chavez's strategy is "based on confrontation and conflict, and in order to sustain it over time it requires an ever-increasing search for enemies," the assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs, Thomas Shannon, told lawmakers.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
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ehm...so what :? hows about this bit of news:

Reuters has it right on. Things are definitely looking up. Looks like even 007 is turning agin nascar. The board is waking up and seeing him for the narrow minded violator he really is. 8O 8O
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Uh, Nascar Nero? Fox's party is in trouble in Mexico. They'll be replaced with a pro-Chavez government. Right now, they are playing the kind of smear politics that you are trying to play. Don't feel bad though...nobody believes them either.
 

GL Schmitt

Electoral Member
Mar 12, 2005
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Chavez's strategy is "based on confrontation and conflict, and in order to sustain it over time it requires an ever-increasing search for enemies," the assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs, Thomas Shannon, told lawmakers.
No doubt, the present administration is uncomfortable with any strategy which is based upon confrontation. One could only wish that other leaders would likewise confront Bush, rather that bending over and taking one in the spirit of cooperation.

No wonder the charge rolls trippingly off Shannon’s tongue. If you replace the name, “Chavez” with “Bush” you have the Bush Administration’s foreign policy in a nut shell.
 

Andygal

Electoral Member
May 13, 2005
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No wonder the charge rolls trippingly off Shannon’s tongue. If you replace the name, “Chavez” with “Bush” you have the Bush Administration’s foreign policy in a nut shell.

Yes, it's rather entertaining how almost any accusation they make against Chavez can be made far more accurately about Bush.

It's rather pathetic how they spend there time pointing fingers at others to try and avoid people looking at their record.

Unfortunately for them most of the world no longer buys their bullshit.
 

Nascar_James

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Jun 6, 2005
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Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Reverend Blair said:
Uh, Nascar Nero? Fox's party is in trouble in Mexico. They'll be replaced with a pro-Chavez government. Right now, they are playing the kind of smear politics that you are trying to play. Don't feel bad though...nobody believes them either.

You can't assume that the next Mexican government will be pro-Chavez, Rev. Chances are it won't. Countries are usually not inclined to align themselves with a dictator. The Christain based PAN party (National Action Party) is the only real choice for the moderate Mexican voter. The other two mainstream parties (if you can call them that) are extreme left based revolutionary type parties. The rest are all fringe based similar to the Green party, no chance of winning.

Speaking of the next Mexican government, Fox's six year term is up next year. He can't run again since Mexican rules limit him to one 6 year term. The Candidate of the Democratic Revolutionary Party, Lopez Obrador had to back away from starting his election campaign in Los Angeles, California. Had he gone ahead with it, he would have violated Mexican campaign rules and would have been disqualified as a candidate.

I will make a prediction. I predict Felipe Calderon will win the Presidential election in Mexico in July 2006. Although Fox and Calderon have had their rifts in the past (due mainly to Calderon's early intention in 2004 to run for the 2006 Presidency while he was still energy secretary), I'm sure Fox will back Calderon up throughout the election campain.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Make all the predictions you want, James. You've been consistently wrong about Latin America for as long as you've been here.

The Mexican people like Chavez. They like the Bolivarian Revolution. Any party that does not move towards the wants of that electorate will not win.
 

Nascar_James

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Jun 6, 2005
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Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Reverend Blair said:
Make all the predictions you want, James. You've been consistently wrong about Latin America for as long as you've been here.

The Mexican people like Chavez. They like the Bolivarian Revolution. Any party that does not move towards the wants of that electorate will not win.

Well then how do you explain Fox's win in the 2000 elections? Folks voted for a right of center government as it was the only option available for moderate voters. Those left wing voters had no real choice unless they wanted to vote for a radical based party.
 

Nascar_James

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Jun 6, 2005
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Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Reverend Blair said:
Chavez hadn't become a political force outside of Venezuela yet, for one thing. US influence for another.

It appears everything nowadays revolves around Chavez! Why would the 2006 Mexican elections be influenced by Chavez? On the contrary, I would think Chavez would tip the scales even more in favor of the PAN party. Mexicans couldn't care less about some dictator in Venezuela.
 

Ursula42

New Member
Nov 13, 2005
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Right on no1important. How about that softwood lumber deal Nascar? Just to mention one thing Canadians beef about "free-trade" with America
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

First of all, as has been explained to you many times before, Chavez isn't a dictator. Second of all, people have seen how he has helped the poor in Venezuela. All of the rambling and forced policies and arrests and beatings and disappearances and murders that the CIA have carried out in Latin America have not helped the poor and, since the poor make up most of the population, they are choosing help over being arrested, beaten, disappeared, and murdered. Go figure.
 

Nascar_James

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Jun 6, 2005
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Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Reverend Blair said:
First of all, as has been explained to you many times before, Chavez isn't a dictator.

Oh no?

Chavez's dictatorship must really be apparent in Venezuela. For the highest church official in Venezuela to publically denounce Chavez as a dictator is an indication that it's time for Chavez to go.

Read on ...

http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=18115&sec=59&cont=8

WWRN:

"Venezuela: Cardinal calls Chavez 'dictator"

(UPI, August 02, 2005)

Caracas, Venezuela - A Venezuelan Roman Catholic cardinal lashed out against President Hugo Chavez over the weekend calling him a "paranoid dictator" among other things.

Cardinal Rosalio Castillo said that the Venezuelan leader needed "an exorcism" and that Chavez was orchestrating a "despotic government," El Tiempo newspaper reported.

Chavez and Castillo exchanged words in the media earlier this month with the clergyman saying the president was gaining too much power and Chavez calling the cardinal a "bandit" possessed by the devil.

The left-wing Chavez has been accused by his opponents and U.S. officials of trying to steer Venezuela toward becoming a Cuba-style regime. In turn, Chavez says the Bush administration has been trying to undermine his authority by funding the opposition.
 

Andygal

Electoral Member
May 13, 2005
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RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

and just because a priest says something it's automatically true? If some priest said the sky was really orange you'd probably believe that too Nascar.

News flash Nascar, priests (and cardinals) are people too, they can be wrong. And in this particular case he is wrong. If he's not just deliberately smearing Chavez for political reasons which wouldn't surprise me one bit.
 

Canucklehead

Moderator
Apr 6, 2005
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Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Nascar_James said:
Chavez's dictatorship must really be apparent in Venezuela. For the highest church official in Venezuela to publically denounce Chavez as a dictator is an indication that it's time for Chavez to go.

Would this be the same tolerant church that refused to allow the indigenous people to practice their own religion? Mmmkay...whatever
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Canucklehead said:
Nascar_James said:
Chavez's dictatorship must really be apparent in Venezuela. For the highest church official in Venezuela to publically denounce Chavez as a dictator is an indication that it's time for Chavez to go.

Would this be the same tolerant church that refused to allow the indigenous people to practice their own religion? Mmmkay...whatever

I thought those were the guys who got expelled?