Catholic Rainbow Parents ain't buyin' it.

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
4,558
48
48
Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
I am fast coming to the conclusion that there is no way that these subjects can be discussed without feelings being hurt......Im not up for it tonight. Have fun yall and for Goddess sake be nice.


I agree. Also, it is basically the same conversation over and over I am beginning to realize. Different titled threads, but the same people, including myself, saying the same things. I'm wondering at the necessity of it sometimes? I think your mindset contains more wisdom, and I for one shall just abstain from these conversations in the future. Suffice it to say you all already know what I think so there is hardly need to repeat it all here again.;-)
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
Then perhaps instead of trying to change the churchs opinion on homosexuality, they should focus on removing the church from the government. Put all of that energy into seperating the two, seeing as that's the main issue anyway.
So, basically, what you are saying is...don't question anything. Don't work to create a better environment within the church...just get out? Why NOT question? Why NOT work for change? They are seeing a flaw in the system. They feel a need to speak out against it. These are parents, born and raised catholic who are caught in the middle...between their faith, and their childrens sexuality. I really feel for them. They are experiencing something unique and they are trying to speak out and say, "Hey, maybe the status quo ain't right here", kinda like the whole the earth is flat thing. But the issue everyone seems to have is that someone, anyone would have the audacity to QUESTION anything...and like I said...we are talking about opinions and beliefs here...which means that everything is interpreted...which means that ones interpretation is as good as anothers. So, these folks might be the ones who are in fact right, and the ones fighting against them wrong.
 

AmberEyes

Sunshine
Dec 19, 2006
495
36
28
Vancouver Island
I agree. Also, it is basically the same conversation over and over I am beginning to realize. Different titled threads, but the same people, including myself, saying the same things. I'm wondering at the necessity of it sometimes? I think your mindset contains more wisdom, and I for one shall just abstain from these conversations in the future. Suffice it to say you all already know what I think so there is hardly need to repeat it all here again.;-)

Necessity? lol, there isn't one that I know of. We all just like to talk and let everybody know how much we think we understand. We do it over and over.. it gives us a sense of wisdom :p
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
I agree. Also, it is basically the same conversation over and over I am beginning to realize. Different titled threads, but the same people, including myself, saying the same things. I'm wondering at the necessity of it sometimes? I think your mindset contains more wisdom, and I for one shall just abstain from these conversations in the future. Suffice it to say you all already know what I think so there is hardly need to repeat it all here again.;-)
Yes...I know your opinion...don't question anything....nothing. Your interpretation is correct...and I don't believe that for a second. And I think you should be challenged. But you insist the interpretation that you know is absolute, and as long as you say that, well, then you may as well stick your head in the sand and stick to posts where noone questions you and your beliefs and where you don't have to actually face any realities when it comes to your religion and the impact it has on society. Many of the points I bring up, the good points, you don't even attempt to answer, I notice. It would be nice to hear an answer from you, but as long as you don't want to answer them, well, then, yup, may as well keep that head in the sand.
 

AmberEyes

Sunshine
Dec 19, 2006
495
36
28
Vancouver Island
So, basically, what you are saying is...don't question anything. Don't work to create a better environment within the church...just get out? Why NOT question? Why NOT work for change? They are seeing a flaw in the system. They feel a need to speak out against it. These are parents, born and raised catholic who are caught in the middle...between their faith, and their childrens sexuality. I really feel for them. They are experiencing something unique and they are trying to speak out and say, "Hey, maybe the status quo ain't right here", kinda like the whole the earth is flat thing. But the issue everyone seems to have is that someone, anyone would have the audacity to QUESTION anything...and like I said...we are talking about opinions and beliefs here...which means that everything is interpreted...which means that ones interpretation is as good as anothers. So, these folks might be the ones who are in fact right, and the ones fighting against them wrong.

Questioning is for all things outside of religion, and sometimes in religion, if the religion itself permits questioning. I admit that most of our scientific and social advances spawned from questioning the church, but that was when the church was much more integrated into our government, and pretty much ruled with an iron fist. We're starting to see a seperation of the two, and instead of spending all of our time and energies changing the church's beliefs, we should encourage the seperation of church from state. If you disagree with the church's beliefs, then leave the church. In this day nobody is forcing you to be a good little christian, so leave them alone and make your own group.
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
Questioning is for all things outside of religion, and sometimes in religion, if the religion itself permits questioning. I admit that most of our scientific and social advances spawned from questioning the church, but that was when the church was much more integrated into our government, and pretty much ruled with an iron fist. We're starting to see a seperation of the two, and instead of spending all of our time and energies changing the church's beliefs, we should encourage the seperation of church from state. If you disagree with the church's beliefs, then leave the church. In this day nobody is forcing you to be a good little christian, so leave them alone and make your own group.
I see you completely ignore what I said earlier on the subject.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
The doctrines of the Church have never been changed. Name one doctrine you feel has been changed.
Depends specifically what you mean by doctrines. And which church. The church used to make a lot of empirical claims that had the status of doctrine about the nature of the cosmos and gave people like Galileo and Copernicus a pretty hard time about some of them, but it now concedes that they were right. It even bought the theory of evolution recently, in a weasely sort of way. The church has pretty much retreated from making empirical claims in the last 400 years, it was shown to be wrong too often. If you're referring only to matters of faith rather than things that can be determined empirically, you might have a case, but isn't the schism between the eastern and Roman rites of the Catholic Church a disagreement over a fundamental doctrine, the nature of Christ's divinity?

More to the point, that fragment of doctrine on homosexuality you cited certainly isn't 2000 years old. Specifically, the point about homosexuals being called upon to be celibate looks like a fairly recent addition. Didn't they used to just kill them off as abominations? That seems a pretty clear change in doctrine.
 
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snfu73

disturber of the peace
And what, exactly, am I ignoring?
Well...go back and read my posts. I think you will see what I feel you are ignoring. I hope you see what I am ignoring. I think I brought up some fair points...regarding the position catholic parents of gay children find themselves in, the impact of the churches positions on society as a whole...seperation of church and state or not, etc.
 

AmberEyes

Sunshine
Dec 19, 2006
495
36
28
Vancouver Island
This is what I get from the OP.

Parents of gay people feel that the church is speaking abusively towards homosexuals. The catholic supporters of homosexuality believe that even gay individuals are entitled to holy matrimony, as well as the support of the church. They also appear to believe that the sexuality of an individual is not a choice, but an attribute given to them by God.

Am I missing something?

As I said, and I'm sticking to this - if you don't agree with the church, then leave it. From what I've heard on this forum, many people believe that marriage and holy matrimony are seperate from one another, one being religious and the other not. If you want to get married, and your gay, then do so. But don't expect a religious organization to bless your union when it is against their beliefs to do so.
 
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tanakar

Nominee Member
Feb 14, 2007
98
2
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Ontario
This is what I get from the OP.

Parents of gay people feel that the church is speaking abusively towards homosexuals. The catholic supporters of homosexuality believe that even gay individuals are entitled to holy matrimony, as well as the support of the church. They also appear to believe that the sexuality of an individual is not a choice, but an attribute given to them by God.

Am I missing something?

As I said, and I'm sticking to this - if you don't agree with the church, then leave it. From what I've heard on this forum, many people believe that marriage and holy matrimony are seperate from one another, one being religious and the other not. If you want to get married, and your gay, then do so. But don't expect a religious organization to bless your union when it is against their beliefs to do so.

Very wise post. Expecting the Catholic church to accomodate minority groups is just not going to happen. And like you said, why should they? If they don't like what that Church teaches, better they find a Church that suits them, in my opinion.