Canadians vote 82% against sharia law banks

[Machjo]

Seriously, why would we ever want a bank that forbade interest rates and speculative investment? A loan that is repaid at parity is outrageous.

I don't profess Islam myself, but what is so harmful about a Shari'a bank besides the fact that it tickles the 'phobes the wrong way?

Now, as for whether a Shari'a bank would be particularly successful is another matter (no interest earned on the money I lend?!). In fact, though Shari'a is different from socialism, I could see many socialists liking the idea, though they'd probably change the name and call it a socialst bank or a 0-interest bank or an anti-usury bank or something of the sort.

But aside from the phobia and the name, can anyone point out specifically what would be so harmful about such a bank other than the fact that it would not be protestant?

It's only a poll for starters, and Sharia law could not be implemented without Constitutional amendments. They can have their religion, but they cannot choose which laws to follow. Our laws supersede the kind of religious freedom which would see Sharia law followed. If Muslims-and by that I mean Muslims favouring Sharia law- make up more than 50% of our country/House of representatives one day, then we might want to worry. Much more likely it will be > 50% Asian some day, not Muslim.

Not even the notwithstanding clause can help it. Sharia law is slanted towards men with women as subordinate in some rights. Gender equality is not a section which can be over-ruled by the notwithstanding clause. Also, our democratic rights are entrenched, where Sharia sets up distinctly second class (non-Muslim) citizens.

I have to question though, would a Shari'a bank violate any Canadian law as it currently stands? To the best of my knowledge it has nothing to do with gender relations but rather with the issue of interest on a loan. I don't know the answer to this, but if Shari'a banks would be perfectly legal under current Canadian laws, well Golly we'd better start passing laws then eh!

Without a Sharia law bank in Canada, where do those who follow their law get their loans? I'd rather that 'buy out' profit were in our own country and on the books, than having Sharia Muslims taking out all their loans in the US, or overseas. Someone's profiting off them still, and someone's taxing that profit. I'd say we need to minimize the amount of the profit that remains in someone else's country, and take advantage.

But, admittedly, that's just my first impression. There may be more to it that I'm unaware of.

I'm not big on nationalism. However, I do believe in justice and freedom of religion in moderation, and a Shari'a bank does not seem to be an issue to me at all.

 

[captain morgan]

I don't profess Islam myself, but what is so harmful about a Shari'a bank besides the fact that it tickles the 'phobes the wrong way?

Now, as for whether a Shari'a bank would be particularly successful is another matter (no interest earned on the money I lend?!). In fact, though Shari'a is different from socialism, I could see many socialists liking the idea, though they'd probably change the name and call it a socialst bank or a 0-interest bank or an anti-usury bank or something of the sort.

But aside from the phobia and the name, can anyone point out specifically what would be so harmful about such a bank other than the fact that it would not be protestant?

The principles in Islamic finance dictates that charging interest is verbotten; however, the way around it is to simply reverse engineer the value of the interest and tack it on the total.

 

[Machjo]

Sharia law, what will they think of next? Good for desert people living in huts and tents. Good also for undemocratic regimes in the Mideast perhaps.

The media has to shoo religion out of politics. First, the Scientific Revolution started by Copernicus, Galileo and Newton proved that religion is not a testable hypothesis. This means religion is just another Asiatic superstition. The day of religion is over. Good ridance.

I read the Saudi royal family considers Saudi Arabia to be its personal property and everything in it. This is not a place where any progress will originate.

Justice is not scientifically provable either, so should we reject that too?

 

[petros]

The principles in Islamic finance dictates that charging interest is verbotten; however, the way around it is to simply reverse engineer the value of the interest and tack it on the total.

That's how loans are written anyway unless it's a variable.

 

[Machjo]

Re: Sharia banks

I don't like Sharia law. I don't like making a mockery of Allah. But what law should stop sharia banks, piggy banks, or any other kind of bank? If they want to take deposits from the public and pretend to not be banking, there are regulations that they must comply with in any event. They can call the deal whatever they want, except on government regulated disclosures. The Muslims don't care if we all snicker and say that they are banking, why should they care if regulations require the deal be written in English or French and not Farsi? And why should they care if I call it a loan at interest and they call it an offer of obedience to Mohammed's Deo-economic theory?

Canadian Muslims should not take their own hypocritical posturing so seriously. Just open the sharia bank and let free enterprise rock on with all the tellers in burkas and offer whatever brand of B.S. makes a buck. If the effective, ahem, rates, are competetive, can I get a loan or what? What's the cardholder agreement look like for a sharia charge card? Do you think I care? I didn't read the last one that I signed. So as long as it meets the regs, give it to me in Farsi for all I care.

I want my tellers in burkas. I like to watch their eyes. Just because I'm not a Muslim man doesn't mean I'm not a male chauvenist pig. Will a sharia ATM charge fees directly, or will it launder the fees as well? Cool.

What if it's in Algonquin?

I would almost venture to suggest that redundancy can be a good thing, particularly when we have such a complex system of rights and freedoms here in Canada. Not only does our Supreme Court of Canada need to consider the provisions of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but also the Canadian Bill of Rights (which remains in force today), and the relationships that those statutes have with unwritten constitutional principles and norms (as they apply to Canada by references in the Constitution Act, 1867). We would need to have comprehensive discussion and study before endeavouring to modify that framework, in my opinion.

But the question is, would a Shari'a bank violate any of the laws currently in the books as they currently stand? I'm unaware of such laws.

 

[captain morgan]

That's how loans are written anyway unless it's a variable.

What I'm driving at here is that there is no published interest rate on/in the agreement, instead, the payable amount is just altered. I can loan you $50 today and we'll agree that you'll return $75 next week.... No mention of interest, therefore I haven't crossed the line in terms of the faith and teachings

 

[petros]

They are worded as Loan Fees and not interest. That all it takes to make a car loan Sharia.

 

[Machjo]

We have a set of societal laws already this is little more than a back door method of
getting Sharia Law a foothold in this nation. If you can't go by laws already here then
find somewhere else to live. I am also become more ticked have our way of life held
hostage to religion any religion. Preach what you want in church, as long as it
conforms within the laws of Canada. There should be no special opting out for religions.

Strictly speaking, a restaurant that sells only halal foods can be said to be a Shari'a restaurant. Heck, even a vegan restaurant could be said to be submitting to Shari'a even if the owner of the restaurant is unaware of it. So, do we prohibit th ehalal restaurant from advertising its food as being halal, or do we require the vegan restaurant to identify the food as halal to ensure phobes don't eat anything halal. Even an apple is halal by definition unless you marinate it in alcohol or sprinkle pork salt on it or something. By that token, a farm that does not deal in animals could be said to be conforming to Shari'a, assuming of course that it does not lend money at interest or borrow it at interest.

So how do we keep religion out of people's lives when many people may be putting religious practices into practice unwittingly, such as the atheist vegan. Should we warn him that what he's doing is religious?

 

[petros]

For mortgages it makes sense for the economy to have long term rather than short term variable mortgage rates.

 

[Machjo]

Recall Premier dad wanting to supporting Sharia law for Family Law in Ontario. And we know how Islam looks upon women.

But here we'd be talking about Shari'a banks in the private sector still abiding by the charter otherwise, not Shari'a law in our courts, only in private banks.

Yes I recall and I thought is nonsense then as I do now. We don't need to change
our ways then or now. I am getting sick of bending to accommodate every Tom, ****
and Harry who comes here. Up until the last year I have had some sympathy for
multiculturalism but even that is starting to wear thin.
Another thing, we need to change immigration law to reflect our goals a bit. We should
allow people in and perhaps even first family (Mother, Father, and Children) only not the
extended family. All extended family should come on merit not reunification.
Those who lie on forms or use fraudulent methods should be deported of discovery no
appeals just gone. Those who come should be on a ten year probation citizenship
and if they commit a crime deport them. Gang participants deportation regardless of age.

Believe it or not, Canada was far more multicultural historically than it is now. We had over 50 different naitons scattered across the land, different languages, religions, customs, diets, etc. Since we'd officially adopted the notion of two founding races, we've become far more homogeneous.

The principles in Islamic finance dictates that charging interest is verbotten; however, the way around it is to simply reverse engineer the value of the interest and tack it on the total.

Which could still be viewed as interest. Honestly, it would seem to me that Muslims are secretly acknowledging that Muslim finance does not really work in the modern world, so the way around it is to rename it and then say it's something different because it wears a different name. But like Juliet said to her Romeo: a rose by any other name...

But charging interest is not illegal in Canada anyway, so if they want to call it something else, go right ahead.

 

[captain morgan]

Which could still be viewed as interest. Honestly, it would seem to me that Muslims are secretly acknowledging that Muslim finance does not really work in the modern world, so the way around it is to rename it and then say it's something different because it wears a different name. But like Juliet said to her Romeo: a rose by any other name...

But charging interest is not illegal in Canada anyway, so if they want to call it something else, go right ahead.

It's all optics Machjo... Just like Petros pointed out, call them fees or admin costs, whatever you like.

In the end, these folks have to compete in the financial markets just like everyone else

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Dodging prohibitions on usury has a venerable tradition. In the late Middle Ages in Europe, the church forbade charging interest, so people would lend money and the debtor would have to pay an exorbitant delivery charge.

 

[petros]

How is Sharia in Calgary working out for you after getting the Muzzie Mayor? Any Jihads against crime announced?

What did they do in the Ottoman days in Europe?

There have been Sharia acceptable deals going for centuries.

That makes us far behind the times?

 

[captain morgan]

Nenshi hasn't tabled that motion yet... But he was a big supporter on spending an exorbitant amount of money on a pedestrian bridge.

Ironically, he is pushing an agenda for higher taxes as the cupboards are bare these days..... Did I mention that he's getting a raise?

 

[petros]

Nenshi hasn't tabled that motion yet... But he was a big supporter on spending an exorbitant amount of money on a pedestrian bridge.

Ironically, he is pushing an agenda for higher taxes as the cupboards are bare these days..... Did I mention that he's getting a raise?

Moonbeam north side of the river linked to downtown?

 

[captain morgan]

That's the one

 

[petros]

Creepy.

 

[Vancouverite]

Yesss!!!

 

[Machjo]

Huh?

 

[#juan]

It bothers me that 18% presumably are for Sharia law. Find these people and send them home...:smile: