Some of the Brownings have never been issued?
Made in 1944?
Boy, would I like to have one of those.
Made in 1944?
Boy, would I like to have one of those.
Canadian troops using 60-year-old handguns
- Thread starter I think not
- Start date
Hi Colpy
I don't have guns anymore. In my younger days I had a few and might have jumped at the chance to get a brand new Browning. I never owned a handgun. My only experience with handguns was in the military.(Airforce) We used to go out to the range and fire off a few hundred rounds at leat once a month. I still know a few military people and I'm told they still have many new Brownings, packed with grease and wrapped in oilcloth.
I don't have guns anymore. In my younger days I had a few and might have jumped at the chance to get a brand new Browning. I never owned a handgun. My only experience with handguns was in the military.(Airforce) We used to go out to the range and fire off a few hundred rounds at leat once a month. I still know a few military people and I'm told they still have many new Brownings, packed with grease and wrapped in oilcloth.
#juan I am reacting to the comments in the article which you have not addressed. The soldiers quoted do not have the same confidence that you have in the Browning. You are very much an arm chair analyst in this case and they are on the ground facing real danger. So what you are saying is that if you ejected over Afghanistan you would feeling secure with the Browning. What about a Uzi pistol?
The three main threats to Canadian peacekeepers in Afghanistan are landmines, suicide bombers and snipers. Outside of Kabul buildings are mostly one story and so sniper attacks are not that common. Pistols would not protect them from landmines. A pistol might be useful in stopping a suicide bomber and here one would want to be able to release as many rounds as possible.
The three main threats to Canadian peacekeepers in Afghanistan are landmines, suicide bombers and snipers. Outside of Kabul buildings are mostly one story and so sniper attacks are not that common. Pistols would not protect them from landmines. A pistol might be useful in stopping a suicide bomber and here one would want to be able to release as many rounds as possible.
sanch
You are right that I pretty much only run an armchair these days as far as the military is concerned but the people in the topic header didn't even agree with each other. One said the 9mm Browning was too light a weapon and the soldiers needed a more powerful gun. One said the Browning was unreliable. Another said it was a very reliable weapon. It is interesting to note that some of the guns being touted as replacements for the Browning are also 9mm. I have fired many thousand rounds with the Browning and never experienced any problems other than those things Colpy mentioned.
If I ejected and ran into the opposing army, the best thing to do is put my hands up whether or not I had an Uzi.
You are right that I pretty much only run an armchair these days as far as the military is concerned but the people in the topic header didn't even agree with each other. One said the 9mm Browning was too light a weapon and the soldiers needed a more powerful gun. One said the Browning was unreliable. Another said it was a very reliable weapon. It is interesting to note that some of the guns being touted as replacements for the Browning are also 9mm. I have fired many thousand rounds with the Browning and never experienced any problems other than those things Colpy mentioned.
If I ejected and ran into the opposing army, the best thing to do is put my hands up whether or not I had an Uzi.
RE: Canadian troops using
Man I missed this post, my two cents and a few shoot downs of peoples opinions:
The 9mm Browning was designed in the 30's, that doesn't mean the side arms carried overseas are from the 30's as well. We just sent a shipment of almost-new brownings overseas with our HSS Company that deployed last week.
You do realize that some troops don't carry rifles right? For example a medic usually only carries a sidearm. Your take on this situation is a hollywood view, something you see in movies where the hero empties his mag at the enemy then pulls out his sidearm loaded with exploding rounds and blows up the building. :roll:
Yeah i've heard that "story" too. It's a joke you fool. Every mission we deploy on we go armed, peacekeeping or otherwise. Look up the word gullible.
*Sigh*, Afghanistan (for the millionth time iv'e said this is a year) is not, I say again, NOT a peacekeeping operation. It is a combat operation against a declared enemy. The news, for some reason, keeps delcaring Afghanistan a peacekeeping mission. A peacekeeping mission is defined by troops with blue berets, under U.N. control, under U.N. rules of engagement. Those 3 things don't exist in Afghanistan. We're at war, we've got a combat Brigade deployed, our troops are shot at daily. That's war...please, tell your friends, i'm sick of explaining this to every Canadian I meet.
The Browning is being replaced, with the Sig Sauer P228, eventaully. The MPs and some units use the Sig, while JTF-2 uses whatever the hell they want.
An UZI is not a pistol, it is a submachine gun :roll:
Canada isn't even in Kabul anymore, we've moved South to Kandahar, the most dangerous part of Afghanistan.
To sum up, I have fired a browning several times and only ever had one (1) stoppage. Granted I wasn't firing as frequently as some soldiers do, however I fail to see a major problem with the browning. Yes it jams, but let me share a quick tail with you:
February 14, 2005, Combat Training Centre Gagetown. Soldier Mogz is on a recce patrol and comes under hard contact. He and his patrol begin a section attack on the enemy machine gun nest. For those soldiers on the forums, you'll know what I mean when I say double tap dash down. While Mogz is doing a double tap, he only releases one round then his C-7A1 jams. He clears the jam (bolt partially forward stoppage) and begins covering his fire partner. 2/3 through the magazine he gets another stoppage (bolt partially forward), which he clears and begins to fire again. He then gets his turn to move. When he goes down again to cover his fire partner he gets this third stoppage (bolt partially forward). After clearing that he carries on and has no more stoppages during the engagement.
Moral of the story; every weapon jams. Granted yes I was using blank ammunition and it isn't the same as firing FMJ through a weapon, however the jams were caused in the chamber due to a poor feed each time. The C-7 is an excellent weapon, but as I said above, jams happen in every weapon.
Man I missed this post, my two cents and a few shoot downs of peoples opinions:
The 9mm Browning was designed in the 30's, that doesn't mean the side arms carried overseas are from the 30's as well. We just sent a shipment of almost-new brownings overseas with our HSS Company that deployed last week.
You do realize that some troops don't carry rifles right? For example a medic usually only carries a sidearm. Your take on this situation is a hollywood view, something you see in movies where the hero empties his mag at the enemy then pulls out his sidearm loaded with exploding rounds and blows up the building. :roll:
Yeah i've heard that "story" too. It's a joke you fool. Every mission we deploy on we go armed, peacekeeping or otherwise. Look up the word gullible.
*Sigh*, Afghanistan (for the millionth time iv'e said this is a year) is not, I say again, NOT a peacekeeping operation. It is a combat operation against a declared enemy. The news, for some reason, keeps delcaring Afghanistan a peacekeeping mission. A peacekeeping mission is defined by troops with blue berets, under U.N. control, under U.N. rules of engagement. Those 3 things don't exist in Afghanistan. We're at war, we've got a combat Brigade deployed, our troops are shot at daily. That's war...please, tell your friends, i'm sick of explaining this to every Canadian I meet.
The Browning is being replaced, with the Sig Sauer P228, eventaully. The MPs and some units use the Sig, while JTF-2 uses whatever the hell they want.
An UZI is not a pistol, it is a submachine gun :roll:
Canada isn't even in Kabul anymore, we've moved South to Kandahar, the most dangerous part of Afghanistan.
To sum up, I have fired a browning several times and only ever had one (1) stoppage. Granted I wasn't firing as frequently as some soldiers do, however I fail to see a major problem with the browning. Yes it jams, but let me share a quick tail with you:
February 14, 2005, Combat Training Centre Gagetown. Soldier Mogz is on a recce patrol and comes under hard contact. He and his patrol begin a section attack on the enemy machine gun nest. For those soldiers on the forums, you'll know what I mean when I say double tap dash down. While Mogz is doing a double tap, he only releases one round then his C-7A1 jams. He clears the jam (bolt partially forward stoppage) and begins covering his fire partner. 2/3 through the magazine he gets another stoppage (bolt partially forward), which he clears and begins to fire again. He then gets his turn to move. When he goes down again to cover his fire partner he gets this third stoppage (bolt partially forward). After clearing that he carries on and has no more stoppages during the engagement.
Moral of the story; every weapon jams. Granted yes I was using blank ammunition and it isn't the same as firing FMJ through a weapon, however the jams were caused in the chamber due to a poor feed each time. The C-7 is an excellent weapon, but as I said above, jams happen in every weapon.
When I was a Marine we just started replacing the 45 caliber pistol with the 9MM. The 45 goes back to WWI.
Blank ammunition always jams. When we had war games my M-16 always jammed using blanks. However when shooting 5.56mm it never jammed. I hated firing blanks because you were constantly pulling the bolt back to eject the jammed shell. I prefered to yell
"BANG BANG... I got you MF*er.... You know I did... no I got you first... you're dead man... D-E-A-D..."
Blank ammunition always jams. When we had war games my M-16 always jammed using blanks. However when shooting 5.56mm it never jammed. I hated firing blanks because you were constantly pulling the bolt back to eject the jammed shell. I prefered to yell
"BANG BANG... I got you MF*er.... You know I did... no I got you first... you're dead man... D-E-A-D..."
RE: Canadian troops using
The .45 COlt 1911, a good pistol. Hell it was the mainstay of the U.S. Military during World War II.
As for blanks, I rarely get stoppages with blanks in a C-7, unless of course the chamber is caked with carbon, then it's jam central. I have fired M-16A2s ( a few years back) and I did find they jammed alot even when putting live rounds through them. Maybe it was just the weapons we had (could be old and have had thousands of rounds put through them).
The .45 COlt 1911, a good pistol. Hell it was the mainstay of the U.S. Military during World War II.
As for blanks, I rarely get stoppages with blanks in a C-7, unless of course the chamber is caked with carbon, then it's jam central. I have fired M-16A2s ( a few years back) and I did find they jammed alot even when putting live rounds through them. Maybe it was just the weapons we had (could be old and have had thousands of rounds put through them).