What makes you think oppression leads to happiness? Mistakes are part of learning and growing. What is a poor choice for you might be the secrete to someone else’s happiness.
Canadian Smoking Laws
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What makes you think oppression leads to happiness? Mistakes are part of learning and growing. What is a poor choice for you might be the secrete to someone else’s happiness.
Why is it that some people are so arrogant that they feel that they know what is best for other people. Shouldn’t the individual be on average the far superior judge of what is best for themselves? If you want to be a good shepherd stick to sheep. I am an individual.
I guess you call that brotherly love. If people don’t stand up for other peoples freedoms how can they expect anyone to stand up for their own.
"
First they put away the dealers,
keep our kids safe and off the streets.
Then they put away the prostitutes,
keep married men cloistered at home.
Then they shooed away the bums,
then they beat and bashed the queers,
turned away asylum-seekers,
fed us suspicions and fears.
We didn't raise our voice,
we didn't make a fuss.
It's funny there was no one left to noticewhen they came for us."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
Smoking takes a big chunk of money out of our health care system, so much illness, related to that
filthy habit. We allow it, make it legal, take a bunch of tax for it, then pay out millions through our
health care to cover cost of smoke related illness, doesn't make sense to me at all.
filthy habit. We allow it, make it legal, take a bunch of tax for it, then pay out millions through our
health care to cover cost of smoke related illness, doesn't make sense to me at all.
I don’t believe that. The majority of health care dollars are spent on the last days of someone’s life. If smokers die sooner then nonsmokers you could argue that left health care dollars are spent on them. Regardless, smokers pay many times more then enough taxes to pay for the health care service they get. Also health care costs are no excuse of a nanny state. If the state cannot afford freedom and health care costs simultaneously then make more of the health care costs private.
It's time to outlaw tobacco, alcohol, perfume, pop, all fatty foods and concentrate on creating the perfect society.
I'd much rather outlaw the lobbyist's and dogooder's that keep trying to save us all from ourserlves, by having anything they can think of turned into law with criminal punishments if we dont OBEY!!!!!
Freedom to choose what is right and wrong for yourself provided you are no harming another human being or putting them at risk, is our greatest single human right! We have been losing it for decades, and if the trend continues future generations will find themselves living in a control state.
Quote from the movie Demolition Man,
"I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal?"
I'd much rather outlaw the lobbyist's and dogooder's that keep trying to save us all from ourserlves, by having anything they can think of turned into law with criminal punishments if we dont OBEY!!!!!
Freedom to choose what is right and wrong for yourself provided you are no harming another human being or putting them at risk, is our greatest single human right! We have been losing it for decades, and if the trend continues future generations will find themselves living in a control state.
Quote from the movie Demolition Man,
"I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal?"
We can't outlaw smoking or it will go underground like Prohibition in the 20s did.
But we can limit where smoking can occur and we can tax it up to a certain point before
the smoking market goes completely black market.
But the biggest agent of change that trumps all else is CULTURE --- not laws, not politics,
not fiats. It is the culture, the zeitgeist that rules most of all, even rules our leaders.
But we can limit where smoking can occur and we can tax it up to a certain point before
the smoking market goes completely black market.
But the biggest agent of change that trumps all else is CULTURE --- not laws, not politics,
not fiats. It is the culture, the zeitgeist that rules most of all, even rules our leaders.
And now a musical break Elizabeth May would be proud of: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d83F923F2kY&mode=related&search=
I don't know...laws, education, taxes...they all have a big effect in swaying culture. These are tools that help to guide a society or a culture along. Sooooo....
Here goes the libertarian viewpoint:
You should be allowed to do whatever you want, wherever you want, until it effects somebody else. Then you need their permission. Simple.
If what I am doing effects nobody else - then it is nobody's business but mine. The moment my activities interfere with another's sovereignty - then I must answer to them. Simple.
Smoke in a public place - well then it would be incumbent upon me to prove my smoke had no effect on anyone who had to breathe it. Again, simple.
If I could not prove the smoke had no effect, then the simple aesthetic objection of any person who came in contact with it should carry the day.
If I could prove the smoke had no effect - then I would feel quite rightly justified in lighting up wherever I wanted to.
No ideology - just simple ethics.
Pangloss
You should be allowed to do whatever you want, wherever you want, until it effects somebody else. Then you need their permission. Simple.
If what I am doing effects nobody else - then it is nobody's business but mine. The moment my activities interfere with another's sovereignty - then I must answer to them. Simple.
Smoke in a public place - well then it would be incumbent upon me to prove my smoke had no effect on anyone who had to breathe it. Again, simple.
If I could not prove the smoke had no effect, then the simple aesthetic objection of any person who came in contact with it should carry the day.
If I could prove the smoke had no effect - then I would feel quite rightly justified in lighting up wherever I wanted to.
No ideology - just simple ethics.
Pangloss
It sounds simple but by that logic we could justify banning peanut butter. If someone goes into an establishment that allows smoking then that is their choice. They are perfectly free to go to another establishment.
We could justify banning peanut butter only if the nature of peanut butter consumption included putting it into contact with people who would wish to avoid it.
Smoke floats through the air - the original ubiquitous environment. Peanut matter goes into the mouth - or on a knife, or a cooking surface - places where food residue naturally resides.
If you want to avoid peanuts (I am allergic to cashews in any form), it is quite easy to organize your behaviour in a way that minimizes potential contact.
That cannot be said for airborne contaminants.
Good try, though.
Pangloss
Smoke floats through the air - the original ubiquitous environment. Peanut matter goes into the mouth - or on a knife, or a cooking surface - places where food residue naturally resides.
If you want to avoid peanuts (I am allergic to cashews in any form), it is quite easy to organize your behaviour in a way that minimizes potential contact.
That cannot be said for airborne contaminants.
Good try, though.
Pangloss
As well, there will always be somebody who cannot tolerate any particular thing another person wishes to do. That does not mean we should forego our pleasure because it would inconvenience another - there has to be harm involved.
Diesel fumes make my lungs ache like they are bleeding, yet it would be unreasonable for the whole world to be prevented from transporting their belongings in semi-trailers or taking the bus because of my infirmity - to design the world to accommodate the least firm of all of us would be not only impractical, but boring and fascist in a way.
The point of ethics is to maximize happiness - not to level the entire world to the comfort of the weakest.
But please do not think I am saying "screw the gimps" - that is not the point of this discussion. It could easily be another thread.
Pangloss
Diesel fumes make my lungs ache like they are bleeding, yet it would be unreasonable for the whole world to be prevented from transporting their belongings in semi-trailers or taking the bus because of my infirmity - to design the world to accommodate the least firm of all of us would be not only impractical, but boring and fascist in a way.
The point of ethics is to maximize happiness - not to level the entire world to the comfort of the weakest.
But please do not think I am saying "screw the gimps" - that is not the point of this discussion. It could easily be another thread.
Pangloss
Well, I have heard peanut putter smells can cause reactions this link suggests that is wrong:
http://www.allergysafecommunities.ca/assets/common_beliefs_faan_2003.pdf
Anyway, so I presume you also want to ban scents, in magazines, candles, laundry soaps, perfumes, deodorants shampoos, soaps, etc.
I doesn't bother me but I find some buses stinky. Fortunately, Canada will have low sulfur diesel soon. I hope hope that helps your lungs.
The whole peanut side of your convo made me think of this comedy clip I saw. Perhaps I'm just twisted, but I thought it was hilarious. The audio link 'peanuts' is the one I'm talking about.
http://www.hahaha.com/shows/comedy-tour-2006/tim_nutt.html
http://www.hahaha.com/shows/comedy-tour-2006/tim_nutt.html
lol karrie,
that is hilarious.
I might of heard it before though.
I ran a search to find the link, using the lines I knew were in it, and actually ended up finding the link on an allergy message board. Can you guess what THEY thought of the comedy clip? For some odd reason, it didn't get good reviews with them! lol