Canadian-born man facing deportation; Immigration Canada says he’s not a citizen

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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Edson, AB
PoliticalNick I might have even listened to your side of it until you start making ridiculous statements like the one you made in regard to this thread about murderers and rapists not being protected. Somehow deporting them, seems more effective than paroling them and putting them in half-way houses in neighborhood near you friends and neighbors.

Your comparisons to Stalin and Communist States are far reaching, even silly. We live in a Country where gays marry, abortions happen regularly, forum debate goes on without anyone wearing standard issue jack boots kicking in your door. Forgive me if I don't feel sympathy or even empathy for the drug/gun running scumbag who now finds himself in an extraordinarily predicament. One I might he might not be in had he avoided that whole drug/gun running endeavor in the first place.

RCS, it is not that I have sympathy for those committing heinous crimes. Quite the contrary as I support life sentences that really mean life and the death penalty for serious repeat offenders which is even more effective than deportation as we are not placing a blight on another nation's population.

Are we a communist state? Not yet, but maybe soon if things like the patriot act and Canadian anti-terrorism act keep being renewed and expanded and one must remember Stalin and Mao both started piecemeal, they didn't just kill millions in one fell swoop overnight. It was a slow, methodical erosion of rights and freedoms that began most dictatorships and communist states.

Now I certainly don't have sympathy or empathy for a drug dealer, especially one that uses firearms in his trade. I would gladly see him deported if it was clear he was an Indian citizen or Cuban or Vietnamese or whatever but to me it seem clear he is none of those. I also am unclear as to his status as a Canadian citizen. My belief is that since he was issued a birth certificate and a passport and paid out taxes and was deemed eligible to vote and lived freely as a citizen in this country for 2 or 3 decades and at no time did the govt seem concerned there may be a technical error then he should be deemed a citizen and the last thing you or I want is our govt to start deporting, exiling really, it's own citizens because once they start with criminals they then move on to political dissidents and maybe gays and whoever else they decide is undesirable.

Now, even if there is this 'technicality', a loophole in the law surrounding citizenship, I cannot condone the govt using loopholes and technicalities as a matter of convenience or for pure political gain which is what I see in this case. Allowing our govt to play the technicality card once means they will play it again & again & again until there is no end to who, where & when they do it to. People in general and especially govts have a propensity to keep opening the door wider & wider as soon as it is ajar. I don't trust them to stop and would bet money they won't if allowed to do this.

So for me it isn't about the individual. I find his method of making money deplorable and would gladly lock him up for longer than he got with forced, hard labour to pay for his incarceration. This is about bolting that metaphorical door closed tight before the govt gets it to open even a crack.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
That is the question Eagle. It would appear for all intents & purposes he was. He was issued a Canadian birth certificate and a Canadian passport. He was allowed to live here with all he benefits & rights of a citizen for at least a couple of decades. I would imagine he was even allowed to vote and I'm damn sure he paid taxes. Now, when the govt decides he is undesirable to score political points, they roll out some technicality that he shouldn't be and want to deport him to India but of course he isn't a citizen there because he was born here. The loophole may be real but I don't condone the govt using loopholes on someone who has lived here as a citizen for decades for political gain.

Canadian Laws are pretty clear to me. It does not allow anchor babies and children of diplomats are not Canadian citizens.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
12,449
1,400
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Alberta
RCS, it is not that I have sympathy for those committing heinous crimes. Quite the contrary as I support life sentences that really mean life and the death penalty for serious repeat offenders which is even more effective than deportation as we are not placing a blight on another nation's population.

Are we a communist state? Not yet, but maybe soon if things like the patriot act and Canadian anti-terrorism act keep being renewed and expanded and one must remember Stalin and Mao both started piecemeal, they didn't just kill millions in one fell swoop overnight. It was a slow, methodical erosion of rights and freedoms that began most dictatorships and communist states.

Now I certainly don't have sympathy or empathy for a drug dealer, especially one that uses firearms in his trade. I would gladly see him deported if it was clear he was an Indian citizen or Cuban or Vietnamese or whatever but to me it seem clear he is none of those. I also am unclear as to his status as a Canadian citizen. My belief is that since he was issued a birth certificate and a passport and paid out taxes and was deemed eligible to vote and lived freely as a citizen in this country for 2 or 3 decades and at no time did the govt seem concerned there may be a technical error then he should be deemed a citizen and the last thing you or I want is our govt to start deporting, exiling really, it's own citizens because once they start with criminals they then move on to political dissidents and maybe gays and whoever else they decide is undesirable.

Now, even if there is this 'technicality', a loophole in the law surrounding citizenship, I cannot condone the govt using loopholes and technicalities as a matter of convenience or for pure political gain which is what I see in this case. Allowing our govt to play the technicality card once means they will play it again & again & again until there is no end to who, where & when they do it to. People in general and especially govts have a propensity to keep opening the door wider & wider as soon as it is ajar. I don't trust them to stop and would bet money they won't if allowed to do this.

So for me it isn't about the individual. I find his method of making money deplorable and would gladly lock him up for longer than he got with forced, hard labour to pay for his incarceration. This is about bolting that metaphorical door closed tight before the govt gets it to open even a crack.


Here are two things that are quite clear to me. If I get busted for drug trafficking or gun running and the government tries to deport I promise not to whine. If I do you can slap me around with a squid or a large trout. IIf there is illegal wrangling going on I'm sure his lawyer and a team of immigration lawyers will put a stop to it. If he is not a Canadian citizen, then tough sh!t.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
Here are two things that are quite clear to me. If I get busted for drug trafficking or gun running and the government tries to deport I promise not to whine. If I do you can slap me around with a squid or a large trout.

Being from the west coast I prefer to use salmon & halibut, that ok with you? ;-)
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
141
63
Backwater, Ontario.
Not quite the same, Goober. From your link:
"Mr. Grey was born in Leeds in 1959 and brought to Canada at the age of eight by his parents.
"He became a landed immigrant here but never took out citizenship despite him having 'always presumed myself to be Canadian,' he writes in a sworn affidavit filed in court."


Absolutely not the same, Spade. Good one for researching it.

No one can PRESUME to have citizenship (except born in Canada Kanuks , born to Kanuk parents)

Does not apply to slimy criminals who wannabe citizens when it suits.

My wife and her sister and parents all had to apply for citizenship after coming here after WW2 from the UK.

Which they did and which they got.

If my (now) wife and her sister had busted a bank at age 7 or so, they could have expected to have their little immigrant asses kicked onto a scow, and sent back to Blighty.

argh.

Dang; too bad you guys came to an agreement.

In the spirit of compromise, I was about to suggest we just deport him halfway.


With no life jacket would suit me;-)

:canada:yay team?

While he may not be someone I want to be friends with if he is a citizen (technical or otherwise) I don't think we should be deporting him. It is the beginning of a slippery slope I don't want to start down. Next comes deporting rapists and murderers whose families have been here for generations or who are natives just because the govt can technically revoke their citizenship.

We may not like the man or what he did but circumventing the law by a technicality is not something I can support my govt doing.


Not that you will care, but:

"
By law, the children of foreign diplomats, even if born in Canada, do not automatically become Canadian citizens. "


I pretty much don't give a shyte either.

Since I don't recognize the government of Canada as legitimate under common law I don't feel a need to obey any of their rules. It may appear that I do but that is because most of the rules in the CCoC happen to be inline with my personal moral & ethical standards.

I'm sure Bernardo and his bride felt the same way.

They can refuse to accept him. So it all comes down to the Diplomats.
I imagine some sort of deal would be done.


He might prefer some years in a Canadian prison than a life on the Street in Calcutta......................but, maybe not!!