Canada is the Most Overrated Country in the World

[Andem]

>>You refuse to acknowledge their professional qualifications and work experience, look down on them and make them feel like they have been accorded a great privilege to come and live in Canada.

It _IS_ a priviledge to be allowed to live and work in Canada. But 2 things.. Immigrant professionals may become competition to Canadian university graduates, which would hinder a Canadian's ability to succeed. I'm more, and always will be, in favour of a Canadian to make a living than an immigrant who's come here looking for work.

The next thing: If someone is trained in Pakistan or Iran, it doesn't necessarily mean they meet the qualifications of Canadian or North American standards.

It's sad that immigrants come from countries with lower standards than Canada, but it's not our fault and these people are just bashing Canada because they were never able to make it here.

 

[LeftCoast]

RE: Canada is the Most Ov

I think Ashcan is just stirring the pot trying to get a response.

I find it amusing that he is comparing the cost of a hotel in Toronto to that in London, Paris or Rome. Ha! I have lived in Vancouver, San Francisco and London. My brother lived in Toronto for 10 years so I have visited numerous times. London is probably the most expensive place I have ever seen. 80 pounds per night will get you a flea bag hotel out by Heathrow. Rome - again expect to spend at least $150/night if you want clean sheets and plumbing that works.

Poverty - again, try San Francisco where to walk on Market Street you practically have to trip over all the homeless people sleeping in doorways. Golden Gate Park and Ocean Beach both smell like urine. London and Paris both have thier share of indigents. Rome in the summer has bands of Rom (gypsy) children who will rob you blind.

I have to say that Munich is one of the cleanest and most orderly European cities I have been to. The public transportation is excellent. Beautiful parks - oh and you gotta like the beer gardens. I also met some of the nicest strangers in Munich. I robbed at knife point on a train from Venice to Munich and had pretty much everything stollen (welcome to Italy) and a perfect stranger in Munich whom I met on the S-Bahn (elevated train) took me into his home for 3 days while I got my passport, green card (I was living in SF at the time) and credit cards replaced.

Rome has fabulous shopping but watch out for the street urchins in the summer time. Poverty is also apparent from the people sleeping in the underground, Roman ruins and train stations.

London - like I said, very expensive. Also I pitty the soul in London who has to get around in a wheelchair or pushing a baby stroller. Few of the tubes have elevators, none of the buses are wheelchair accessible.

Renting in any city is a trial. In Vancouver (where I am a landlord) they usually ask for references, a credit check, a damage deposit (1/2 months rent) and the first months rent in advance. Some landlords prefer (but legally can't demand) 12 months worth of post dated cheques. Many landlords in many cities are not professional property managers and it really sucks when you have to pay the mortgage on your 2nd property and your tenent is late with the rent.

In San Francisco most landlords ask for the first and last months rent plus a damage deposit in advance.

I rented in London and had to put up a whole month's rent as a security deposit. I also needed 3 personal references in England - not from Canada or the US.

I have a friend who lives in Paris and she tells me that getting a decent appartment requires that you know someone - sometimes in the biblical sense of the word. She had one landlord offer her the flat if she slept with him AND HIS WIFE. Paris taxi drivers are famous for ripping people off.

Banking - when we first moved to San Francisco, even though I had 15 years of good credit history in Canada, and Canada uses the same credit rating companies as the US does, to get a US credit card I had to put up a $1000 security deposit for 1 year to guarantee my credit card.

Rude people - try New York!

The point is - every country has its idiosynchratic aspects. I'm sorry you had a bad experience in Toronto. But given your apparent attitude of entitlement - my guess is you would complain about anywhere you went. If you really prefer (where ever home is) - stay there - you won't be disappointed.

BTW - how did you move to Toronto AS A LANDED IMMIGRANT. Usually it takes several years to get landed immigrant status in Canada.

 

[PoisonPete2]

The failing isn't necessarily in not accepting their credentials though, MMMike. I want our doctors and engineers and even our plumbers to know what the hell they are doing. The failing is in encouraging them to come, then not finding ways for them to prove that their credentials are valid or provide them training to bring those credentials up to our standards.

We do need immigrants. Our birth rate is not enough to replenish our population and it gives people a chance to find a better life here. Our system is overly restrictive though, not too lax.

Answer - if anything, our standards are lower then those in many countries. Often they have 5 to 7 year apprenticeships for skills Canada accredits in 3 years. Damned suchi chef is a 10 year apprenticeship in Japan. Also higher education is often to a higher level then in Canada, including medicine and engineering. The main drawback is that they may not have exposure to the technical aspects (the machine that goes beep) but usually a tecki runs that anyway.

Our thing is that we have associations that protect the interests of their membership, often at the expense of providing adequate access by the end user. These self-serving associations should be reigned in, especially the CMA.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Immigrant professionals may become competition to Canadian university graduates, which would hinder a Canadian's ability to succeed. I'm more, and always will be, in favour of a Canadian to make a living than an immigrant who's come here looking for work.

We are short on people though, Andem. It's not a problem that's likely to go away either. It isn't just doctors and engineers either, it's people in the trades.

The next thing: If someone is trained in Pakistan or Iran, it doesn't necessarily mean they meet the qualifications of Canadian or North American standards.

If somebody is qualified in Pakistan or Iran though, they are generally well on their way to being qualified here. We should let them know that they will need upgrading, then help them get that upgrading if they are willing to meet certain conditions.

It's sad that immigrants come from countries with lower standards than Canada, but it's not our fault and these people are just bashing Canada because they were never able to make it here.

Ashcan here is bashing Canada, but I doubt he is who he says he is or has seen what he claims to have seen. That doesn't mean that there aren't very real problems though. We do need immigrants and the old saying that nothing in life is free goes both ways. They want to come here, but we also need them to come here. Lately our government's answer has been to demand money and offer little or nothing in return.

 

[MMMike]

The failing isn't necessarily in not accepting their credentials though, MMMike. I want our doctors and engineers and even our plumbers to know what the hell they are doing. The failing is in encouraging them to come, then not finding ways for them to prove that their credentials are valid or provide them training to bring those credentials up to our standards.

We do need immigrants. Our birth rate is not enough to replenish our population and it gives people a chance to find a better life here. Our system is overly restrictive though, not too lax.

I agree completely. I know from experience that an "engineer" from overseas may not have the same knowledge and training as an engineer here. Bottom line is, governments need to work more closely with the regulatory agencies to better absorb these trained immigrants. Until we do that, no point in inviting more.

 

[Andem]

I agree completely. I know from experience that an "engineer" from overseas may not have the same knowledge and training as an engineer here. Bottom line is, governments need to work more closely with the regulatory agencies to better absorb these trained immigrants. Until we do that, no point in inviting more.

As do I.. but it's still not our responsibility to upgrade their skills for them, nor is it Canada's place to pay for their education. We can give them tips, sure.. maybe even a student loan.

I'm guess they might come here, see the price of education for a year and then decide they can't upgrade their skills and become able to work in their trade here... so they work as taxi drivers.

Really though, what do we do? Pay for their education so they can use their renewed diplomas to work in the U.S.? We already have enough brain-drain to the south. I think we should have improved, more affordable education, for Canadians before we start focusing on immigrants who hate this country after they get here.

What about allowing more immigration from Europe? Standards here are more compatible with Canada's and it seems the only people complaining are from the third world. We can't make everybody happy, and it's not our obligation to.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Really though, what do we do? Pay for their education so they can use their renewed diplomas to work in the U.S.?

Pay for their educations as long as they go where they are sent for a limited period of time. Do the same with Canadians too. Like I said, it goes both ways.

Small towns are always begging for professionals, from tradespeople to doctors and lawyers. Pay for the education and require that be paid back by working in a small town for a certain amount of time, depending on the cost of the education. It would revitalise our small towns and provide necessary services that are now lacking.

 

[Andem]

But Rev, most immigrants don't goto small towns. They goto Vancouver or Toronto.

I doubt the forcing to work in small towns would work very well.

 

[bevvyd]

Some of these 'professionals' are coming from countries that are ripe with unethical, illegal and unsafe practises and in some countries (India for instance) the inspectors are paid off or paid to look the other way.

Personally if I land in emergency I want a doctor that speaks English not some other language, or has to stop and think how to phrase his/her next sentence.

 

[MMMike]

Andem, I'm not saying we should pay for their education, or upgrade their skills for them. I am saying that there should be a clear method of evaluating their knowledge (BEFORE THEY COME HERE), and clear method to upgrade their education, and support while doing it. That's only half of the equation, though. You still have to get employers to hire them, which is the hardest step of all.

 

[Reverend Blair]

But Rev, most immigrants don't goto small towns. They goto Vancouver or Toronto.

I doubt the forcing to work in small towns would work very well.

I bet if they had an incentive to go there, they would. They wouldn't be forced either. They can turn down the offer of education. I'd also include Canadians in the program.

Small towns are getting really bad. People need to live there because it's where they make their living, or because they are retired and already own their house etc. At the same time that some need to live there, there are few services left for them. The result is that you have people driving for two hours to see a doctor, then having to return home.

 

[MMMike]

Answer - if anything, our standards are lower then those in many countries. Often they have 5 to 7 year apprenticeships for skills Canada accredits in 3 years. Damned suchi chef is a 10 year apprenticeship in Japan. Also higher education is often to a higher level then in Canada, including medicine and engineering. The main drawback is that they may not have exposure to the technical aspects (the machine that goes beep) but usually a tecki runs that anyway.

Our thing is that we have associations that protect the interests of their membership, often at the expense of providing adequate access by the end user. These self-serving associations should be reigned in, especially the CMA.

Our standards are not lower than theirs. They are generally higher (don't know what country your talking about). To become a registered professional engineer you have to go to an accredited program, then work for four years before getting liscensed.

Professions such as engineering, law and medicine are self-regulating, with a mandate to protect the public interest. For the most part this model has served the public very well, at no expense. Don't know about medicine, but law and engineering have seperate regulatory and advocacy agencies. There is nothing wrong with this model, but governments need to work with these agencies to better absorb foreign trained professionals. But the governments should get input from these same agencies before setting their immigration 'quotas'.

 

[mrmom2]

That law one works wonderful :roll: :roll:

 

[Twila]

RE: Canada is the Most Ov

He/She hasn't come back and replied I see.

It may simply be a case of venting. It's not easy moving to a completely different country. Especially if your completely ignorant of their customs.

Imagine if we moved to Bulgaria....and nodded yes. They'd think we meant no. Customs can be a bitch. Best to know what they are before you go.

I was pleasantly surprised by the politeness and helpfullness of the French people. I'd heard they were rude. I sure didn't find that. I found them friendly and helpful .

Toronto is a city unto itself and completely different then Vancouver.

I wonder where trolls live?

 

[Shiva]

Maybe because others here aren't as aware of South Asia (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka) this statement of azkhan's has gone over your heads:

(2) I saw lots of poverty in my three weeks in Toronto. You see drunkards sleeping on the streets and roaming about in the neighbourhoods. I saw one young man sprawled on the pavement at a busy intersection and when I approached him thought that he had had been killed or stabbed or something. I have never seen something like this before.

There's a beggar on every street corner in any large South Asian city (number of beggars here conservatively estimated), and they include people who are blind, missing limbs, hordes of starving children, all of whom have never seen a shower or a toilet. Their clothing is tattered, their teeth are bad because they've never had the opportunity to see a dentist, and they are truly the forgotten and downtrodden. The lives of the few Toronto beggars- all concentrated in downtown Toronto- are paradise by comparison.

There are actually even rackets in South Asian countries like Pakistan where poor people will purposely blind a child or get rid of a limb so they look more pathetic and will play on the emotions of people with money. For each locality/district, there's a beggar master who oversees the begging and moves beggars to areas according to where they're getting the best amounts of money, and of course, he gets a cut out of everything they earn. With that money, he keeps a portion for himself as his profit, provides 'protection', and pays off the cops to turn a blind eye to complaints about aggressive beggars, etc., so the operation can continue.

This is a daily reality in Pakistan and India, or any south Asian nation. There is no comparison to the number of beggars in downtown Toronto to any South Asian city, and it is impossible for a real Pakistani to be shocked in any way by what s/he would see in Toronto- maybe surprised that there are beggars, but the beggars themselves are nothing in comparison in terms of their abject poverty, or in terms of their aggressiveness and overall appearance.

This statement, like so much else, is clearly lies, lies, lies. I'm surprised azkhan has time off from his India bashing (typical Pakistani pass-time) to also bash Canada, but in any case, it's surprising that this globetrotter :roll: has time for any of this. It's a shame he didn't take any of that bottled up anger and do something useful with it, like helping the nearly third of the population of his native Pakistan who are nearly starving to death. Perhaps, like so many of the elite there (& elite he must be if he's such a globetrotter), he's just a parasite getting rich off the backs of the poor?

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

....if I ever met this boy around here .....I would make sure he knew he diden't belong here......ignorance and hatred are easily detectable.... he seems like the type of person looking to strap a bomb on and kill innocent people...

This statement, like so much else, is clearly lies, lies, lies. I'm surprised azkhan has time off from his India bashing (typical Pakistani pass-time) to also bash Canada, but in any case, it's surprising that this globetrotter has time for any of this.

...hahaha globetrotter..... anyways dirty boy being from pakistan needs to show some respect for the west.... I mean afterall the west played a big part in keeping India from crushing you!

 

[Ten Packs]

I wanna paint my fridge Allis Chalmers orange, but Mrs. Rev won't let me.

What about John Deere green, with the appropriate yellow trim?

 

[Reverend Blair]

What about John Deere green, with the appropriate yellow trim?

Then I'd have buy paint.

 

[LeftCoast]

Then I'd have buy paint.

Don't bother painting it. Just ask the conservatives for a life size poster of Stephen Harper and glue it to the door of your fridge.

You just might lose weight.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Hello All,

I just saw this interesting website and thought I should add my comments about Canada based on my own experience with that country.

First of all, let me say that I went to Toronto, Canada as a landed immigrant in Sept. 2004. I found it to be the worst city that I have ever visited. Being in Canada was a truly HORRIBLE experience for me and I left your country with all my heavy luggage after spending just 3 weeks there.

My view of Canadians and Canada:

(1) I encountered several obnoxious people there on the streets, in offices and shops. I was told that the Canadians are a very courteous people (and I did encounter some as well) but I didn't expect to see such behaviour. I have lived in Europe for about 28 years, and Europeans aren't exactly renowned for their openness towards newcomers, but even there I have never met so many uncouth people in such a short time-span.

(2) I saw lots of poverty in my three weeks in Toronto. You see drunkards sleeping on the streets and roaming about in the neighbourhoods. I saw one young man sprawled on the pavement at a busy intersection and when I approached him thought that he had had been killed or stabbed or something. I have never seen something like this before.

(3) My experience with searching for an accommodation was a nightmare. The many appartments I saw in downtown and suburban Toronto are crappy and uncomfortable. Moreover, they cost almost double what you pay for a similar facility in European cities. This is outrageous since you cannot compare a city like Toronto with fabulous European cities like London, Paris, Berlin, Munich, Vienna, Rome etc. Toronto is, comparatively speaking, second rate at best!

Not only is accommodation in Toronto frightfully expensive, but on top of all that you are expected to rent the places for one year in advance and you must fill out very long rental application forms which also require you to give the name, address and signature of a "guarantor" who will pay the rent if you can't!!! One rental office even had the gall to ask me to deposit 12 post-dated checks in advance. I have never been asked to supply such information or undergo such treatment in Europe, and I doubt it is even allowed under EU-law (privacy considerations etc.).

In one appartment building, I was told that if you have come to Canada as a landed immigrant and don't know anyone in Canada, then we can't offer you any appartment! I was told that in the US renting is easier but in Canada people don't like to accept certifications etc. from outside countries when renting accommodation. I found this downright insulting. It is pure discrimination against newcomers and, what's worse, the Canadian federal and provincial legislatures have not taken any action whatsoever to ban such outrageous discriminatory practices.

Canada and human rights! Remember when Canadian soldiers roasted Somali children alive over the fire. I hear that Canada lectures the world on human rights and discrimination, but itself apparently is one of the worst violators itself. Didn't the UN human rights body or some other organization like Amnesty International say this recently?

(4) In Toronto I couldn't even open a bank account because to do that you must have an accommodation and landline telephone number (no cell phone numbers!). But, you don't get an accmmodation if you don't have a bank account (and guarantor) to start with! I asked the bank manager if, as a foreigner I could open a bank account by giving my foreign address. I was told in Canada foreigners cannot open bank accounts - only Canadian nationals and landed immigrants can! What happened to mobility of capital I asked in reply? In Germany, I know several people residing outside the EU who came on a visit and opened bank accounts in German banks without any fuss whatsoever. There is no such stupid law there like in Canada.

I don't know what criteria people and organizations use to come up with statements like "Canada is the best place in the world in which to live etc." Obviously, they haven't seen Canada from the angle I have otherwise they wouldn't talk such rubbish. I found Canada to be an over-hyped country with an over-hyped standard of living, which I consider to be way behind Europe. I spent my three weeks at the Days Inn Hotel in Carlton Street in downtown Toronto and spent hours each evening walking kilometers either way down your Yonge Street, which is supposed to be the main thoroughfare in Toronto. I did not see any shops which interested me except for a few selling DVDs and CDs, and the hot dog stands at College Park. The quality of shopping in Toronto is vastly inferior to what I've seen in London or German cities. In one German city I lived in (Speyer, pop. 50,000), I have seen much higher quality goods (including speciality items) selling in the shops than I saw in the whole of your Toronto of 4 million souls, including its big shopping mall. I went to your China Town and couldn't believe what crap was being sold there and neither could I believe my eyes when I saw what junk was being sold at your Dr. Flea's Market.

All in all, I'd say that Canada is, at the very best, a truly second rate country for truly second rate people. It is nowhere near what is depicted in the media and by the hordes of immigration consultants desperate to make it rich quickly and easily by talking gullible immigrants into moving to Canada. I hear all the time that 200,000-250,000 people are migrating to Canada each year. I ask myself, how many would move if they knew what they're getting themselves into! I live in Pakistan now and I know many people here who have returned back to this country because of their disappointment with Canada. They learned it the hard way. I often wonder that, out of the 200,000-250,000 newcomers to Canada each year, how many would have opted not to go had they been better informed and how many return after going. I'm sure the number would be huge.

The worst thing Canada is doing is enticing people to come and live in that country with false promises of a better, more productive life which it doesn't intend to honour. You Canadians as a people should be ashamed of yourselves. You lure to your country the money and human resources which is needed by poor countries in order to facilitate their development, yet, you discriminate in the worst possible way against these unfortunate people once they get to your country. You refuse to acknowledge their professional qualifications and work experience, look down on them and make them feel like they have been accorded a great privilege to come and live in Canada.

I hope there is a special place in hell for your parasitical Canada and Canadian people.

WOW........ but thanks for your comments. and kinda glad you ainn't hangin' around. Such conclusions on one brief experience in only one area of Canada. !! Seriously..........sorry your Ca experience sucked. Better luck elsewhere.