Can muslims be good canadians?

[Johnnny]

i thought that was the story for the name of Canada, i remember seeing the commercials about it when i was a kid

 

[CDNBear]

Hey Bear, when I have finished my beans I'm going to make a big brown trophy for you. I think I'll call it the history of bull****. post your address(if you have one) I'll mail your award in a bag

This of course comes as no surprise to me. I would actually suggest you do it, it would be the brightest thing you have ever produced.

That said, if you feel that my post is in some way erroneous, by all means, post your interpretation of the facts.

 

[AnnaG]

I suspect Mr. Bear was speaking of Canada's European founders. Aboriginal Canadians really did not have much say in it as most of them were dead and the remainder disenfranchised.

He should have mentioned that he meant "European founders" then. Regardless, it's pretty silly to suggest that things are all peachy in NA and not mention how things might have been if Europeans hadn't come here.

 

[AnnaG]

Free and open are also very relative terms, but I think the key point in that context is that the people who founded Canada and the United States (I don't know enough about Mexican history to offer an opinion) may indeed have been Christian, at least nominally, but Christianity wasn't what motivated them and they gave Christianity no real secular authority. Moreover, if you read the works of some of America's founding fathers (Paine, Jefferson, Franklin...) you could make a pretty strong case that America's foundations are atheist, or at most vaguely deist, but certainly not Christian. America's founders well understood that vesting religious and secular authority in the same people and institutions is a prescription for tyranny, hence the Establishment Clause, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Canada's founding documents give religion no authority at all except the right to set up separate school systems. Canada and the United States are not Christian nations and were not created on Christian principles. They are secular states based largely on the values of the European Enlightenment, a key feature of which is that religion officially has no place in the councils of the nation.

There's that, too.

Actually I think America's founders were secularists and Canada's founders were inebriated Scotsmen making a business deal. :smile:

lol

 

[AnnaG]

Yes, Christians.

They were not wandering around NA, they inhabited the Turtles back.

Sorry, but you are wrong, long before Christianity was a twinkle in some power-hungry despot's eye, people from Asia, South America, and Europe were wandering around in NA. Only some planted themselves as inhabitants.

North America is what the Europeans called the new world. What we have and live in today, is due in large part to their presence.

I agree there, but I still suggest that it isn't that great.

It may not be perfect, but you certainly don't have to worry about my clan coming to wipe out yours, so we can have more hunting grounds to survive the winter.

True, but they also brought problems with them that weren't an issue before. So what? Perhaps if Christianity had not intruded we'd all have become Buddhist or Taoist and perhaps things would have been even better in most aspects.
Either way, generally speaking, I don't see Canadian Muslims as being a whole lot different than Canadian Christians.

 

[CDNBear]

Sorry, but you are wrong, long before Christianity was a twinkle in some power-hungry despot's eye, people from Asia, South America, and Europe were wandering around in NA. Only some planted themselves as inhabitants. I agree there, but I still suggest that it isn't that great.

Yes, yes, and my own people draft a constitution long before the US and Canada, I am aware of my history Anna, I just choose not to wallow in it.

True, but they also brought problems with them that weren't an issue before.

I'm not sure where I said they didn't. But if one compares North America to any Muslim nation, we win hands down. As was my point.

So what? Perhaps if Christianity had not intruded we'd all have become Buddhist or Taoist and perhaps things would have been even better in most aspects.
Either way, generally speaking, I don't see Canadian Muslims as being a whole lot different than Canadian Christians.

Fair enough.

 

[AnnaG]

Of course I am, that what you get in a free and open secular society. Which is why Islam should never be allowed to take a hold in North America.

I'm not really sure why you are excluding every other religion in your comment, but having government influenced by any religion in my books, is not good.

 

[Johnnny]

Yes, yes, and my own people draft a constitution long before the US and Canada, I am aware of my history Anna, I just choose not to wallow in it.

i heard the american constitution was heavily influences by the iroqious constitution, which i think is pretty cool. Is this true?

 

[CDNBear]

I'm not really sure why you are excluding every other religion in your comment, but having government influenced by any religion in my books, is not good.

I didn't exclude them, the questions pertained to Muslims.

If they pertained to Buddhists, I would have different opinion.

And I agree, which is why I fully support the separation of church and state.

 

[CDNBear]

i heard the american constitution was heavily influences by the iroqious constitution, which i think is pretty cool. Is this true?

Yes, although many would like you to believe otherwise, lol.

 

[AnnaG]

THe first settlers are the ONE AND ONLY CANADIANS- the word comes from ACADIAN of which I am.......................................... the acadians are the only canadians!!!

roflmao
That's just hilarious.

Acadian etymology

1705, from Acadia, Latinized form of Acadie, Fr. name of Nova Scotia, probably from Archadia, the name given to the region by Verrazano in 1520s, from Gk. Arkadia, emblematic in pastoral poetry of a place of rural peace (see Arcadian); the name may have been suggested to Europeans by the native Micmac (Algonquian) word akadie "fertile land." The Acadians, expelled by the English in 1755, settled in large numbers in Louisiana (see Cajun, which is a corruption of Acadian).

Canadian etymology:

1560s (implied in Canadian), said to be a Latinized form of a word for "village" in an Iroquoian language of the St. Lawrence valley that had gone extinct by 1600. Most still-spoken Iroquoian languages have a similar word (e.g. Mohawk kana:ta "town"). Canada goose is attested from 1772.

Just because "sh|t" and "this" have the same letters and vaguely sound the same does not mean they have the same etymology. roflmao

 

[Johnnny]

Yes, although many would like you to believe otherwise, lol.

i try and be an educated troll, :smile:

 

[CDNBear]

i try and be an educated troll, :smile:

Johnny, you are not a troll by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[AnnaG]

Yes, yes, and my own people draft a constitution long before the US and Canada, I am aware of my history Anna, I just choose not to wallow in it.

Who's wallowing? I was simply correcting your booboo, Yogi ... or C bear, I meant.

I'm not sure where I said they didn't. But if one compares North America to any Muslim nation, we win hands down. As was my point.

Yup, but we are still secular and Christianity has little to do with most of NA life. People don't need to be Christian in order to value life, liberty, etc.

Fair enough.

 

[CDNBear]

Who's wallowing? I was simply correcting your booboo, Yogi ... or C bear, I meant.

What booboo? I have yet to post anything I haven't been able to substantiate.

Yup, but we are still secular and Christianity has little to do with most of NA life.

Thanx to Christians that knew better.

People don't need to be Christian in order to value life, liberty, etc.

I never said they did.

 

[AnnaG]

Yes, yes, and my own people draft a constitution long before the US and Canada, I am aware of my history Anna, I just choose not to wallow in it.

What booboo? I have yet to post anything I haven't been able to substantiate.

Not true. North America was founded by Christians

So I am wrong that NA was founded by other people's long before Christians showed up. I see, Sir Porker. ooops, Mr. Bear.

 

[CDNBear]

So I am wrong that NA was founded by other people's long before Christians showed up. I see, Sir Porker. ooops, Mr. Bear.

You are ignoring context Anna. We did not "found" this nation. We inhabited it. As you yourself said. We were a mix of different clans and nations. So came together, others didn't.

Anna, 2 or 300 years ago, I would have been out to kill you. That is not a singular nation, as in the context of my original post on that matter.

Whether or not there were nations here before the Europeans was never in question. There were many. Some of which had a complex systems of gov't. Including my own people.

I'm not moving goal posts like SJP, you're taking my commentary out of context.

 

[AnnaG]

You are ignoring context Anna. We did not "found" this nation. We inhabited it. As you yourself said. We were a mix of different clans and nations. So came together, others didn't.

So we didn't come from anywhere else to inhabit here. We've always been here. :roll: We needed papers to have founded the place? We needed to make borders on maps in order to have founded the place? roflmao

Anna, 2 or 300 years ago, I would have been out to kill you. That is not a singular nation, as in the context of my original post on that matter.

More likely you might have wanted to enslave me, not kill me. I doubt it would have worked anyway. Anish was a huge clan.

Whether or not there were nations here before the Europeans was never in question. There were many. Some of which had a complex systems of gov't. Including my own people.

I'm not moving goal posts like SJP, you're taking my commentary out of context.

Well, let me see, first off you claim that Christians founded NA. If by that you meant that the people that arrived here some 350 years ago incidentally had Christian principles, knew how to make borders on maps, and had papers that explain how they alone could make countries or even regions, then I agree with you. Otherwise you're wrong.

 

[CDNBear]

So we didn't come from anywhere else to inhabit here. We've always been here. :roll: We needed papers to have founded the place? We needed to make borders on maps in order to have founded the place? roflmao

Anna if you want to be obtuse and what appears to be purposely ignorant and combative, by all means start a thread on Native Canadians, and I'll wager my knowledge base on the majority of Canadian Nations to yours.

I mean you seem to want to whip'm out and measure off after all...:roll:

More likely you might have wanted to enslave me, not kill me. I doubt it would have worked anyway. Anish was a huge clan.

It did work, and there are long tales of the snakes killing the Anishinabe. My wife is Anishinabe.

Well, let me see, first off you claim that Christians founded NA. If by that you meant that the people that arrived here some 350 years ago incidentally had Christian principles, knew how to make borders on maps, and had papers that explain how they alone could make countries or even regions, then I agree with you. Otherwise you're wrong.

:roll:

 

[AnnaG]

Anna if you want to be obtuse and what appears to be purposely ignorant and combative, by all means start a thread on Native Canadians, and I'll wager my knowledge base on the majority of Canadian Nations to yours.

I mean you seem to want to whip'm out and measure off after all...:roll:

It did work, and there are long tales of the snakes killing the Anishinabe. My wife is Anishinabe.

:roll:

Quit sidetracking. I'm still of the opinion that explorers, entrepreneurs, politicians, businessmen, scammers, thieves, etc. who incidentally had some Christian values founded NA after other people had founded it.
Oh, and if I am being stupid and ignorant, well that's just your opinion and in that case everyone else is stupid and ignorant. Combative? Yes, I usually am when arguing or debating. Funny how that works in forums, isn't it?