Call for Sir John A. Macdonald school to be renamed

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,387
9,547
113
Washington DC
Further, his wrong ideas were widely held at the time.... Well put and the same could be said of R.E Lee.
I'm not sure "Hey, I have a cool idea! Let's commit treason!" was a widely thought to be a good idea at the time. It was illegal, usually a death-penalty offense, in. . . oh. . . every country on the planet.
and though he did a lot of damage, that wasn't his intention... This certainly cannot pertain to R.E Lee. He did intend do a lot of damage and that was his intent. That is the job of Generals.
He put together an army and marched with no intention to do damage? What were the Rebs equipped with, Mardi Gras beads and caramels?
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
8
36
John A. MacDonald drank far too much gin. What a terrible example to our young people!

Our current and nobler Prime Minister doesn't drink, he just smokes p....

Never mind.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Why not rename schools that are presently named after John A. MacDonald after Dr. P.H. Bryce, who wrote a report in 1907 describing the situation in the Indian residential schools a "national crime." Maybe build statues to him too. This would stand as proof that even at early as 1907 people knew better.

There is a Parliamentarian who opposed the schools from the start. I just can't find his name right now damn it.

It makes sense to name all buildings, bridges, streets, boats and water troughs Dr. P.H. Bryce and to seal the deal, it makes sense to murder everyone that has the name MacDonald or has eaten at McDonald's (name is close enough)
 

Angstrom

Hall of Fame Member
May 8, 2011
10,659
0
36
The attempt to judge figures of the distant past by today's moral standards is intellectual bankruptcy at its finest. You would be hard-pressed to find any major historical figure who satisfied today's politically correct litmus tests on tolerance for every identity group, from gays and lesbians and transsexuals, to Blacks, Natives or whatever. In fact, you would be hard-pressed to find any major population in any country in the past who could come close to meeting such a litmus test.

But progressives generally don't know about nor care about history except to sneer at the intolerance of past figures. They don't value history because to them, everything that was done was done improperly and without the necessary cultural sensitivity. So they want to take down Robert E Lee, but they also want to take down Teddy Roosevelt, and Washington and Jefferson, and probably just about everyone else, really, if they're white.

In Canada you see this in attacks on MacDonald and Hector Langevin for their improper opinions about natives, and the founder of Halifax, Edward Cornwallis, for daring to fight natives after they attacked him. It's all blindingly stupid, but it shows the fixation progressives have with small, identity politics issues as opposed to matters of real importance. Tiny minds get obsessed with tiny things, I guess.



Which country in the world did not have racism? Or do you actually know anything about history whatsoever?

Don't assume that folks like mentalflake have the mental capacity to understand something as complex. As that.
 

10larry

Electoral Member
Apr 6, 2010
722
0
16
Niagara Falls
The looney left are on a roll with adorable trudough as their cheer leader, all things to all people... nothing past or present should ever appear offensive to anyone. Expunge all names, memorials and events of yesteryear if they fail a liberal wholesomeness test, there is not or ever was a time where impropriety surfaced in canuckstan. Any that claim otherwise are fabricating a tale in an effort to cast a shadow on our sunny ways.
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
11,619
6,262
113
Olympus Mons
The west was built on racism. It's time we faced that


[youtube]aR8o3KRhcj8[/youtube]
Nope, just like the rest of the world, it was built on classism. Those who have, enjoy the spoils. Those who don't, endure the toils.

Rich people generally don't give a shit who's putting in the labour, just so long as they don't actually have to do it themselves. And why pay wages when you can just own someone be they "Red", White or Black? Or did your history revisionists never teach you the real history of slavery in the Americas.
And don't try to sell me the horseshit that all the White slaves were merely "indentured servants" because it's horseshit.

As far as the Native people in Canada go, absolutely there was and still is racism towards them, but it's religion that makes people do truly horrible stuff to other people. Religion gives one the self-inherited "power of divine right" to rule over you no matter who you are, particularly when dealing with the three Abrahamic religions.
That religious "superiority" by the way, is just another form of classism.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
I'm not sure "Hey, I have a cool idea! Let's commit treason!" was a widely thought to be a good idea at the time. It was illegal, usually a death-penalty offense, in. . . oh. . . every country on the planet.

It was the thinking of the time. We're talking about 1861 here... not 2017.

He put together an army and marched with no intention to do damage? What were the Rebs equipped with, Mardi Gras beads and caramels?

You need to reread what I posted. I said the exact opposite.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,387
9,547
113
Washington DC
Nope, just like the rest of the world, it was built on classism. Those who have, enjoy the spoils. Those who don't, endure the toils.
Partly true, but I would point out that in the United States, the last major country to have chattel slavery, said chattel slavery was limited to one race. So there is an argument that race was a significant part of it. An illiterate, non-English speaking man useful only for the lowest forms of manual labor from Ghana could be held as chattel property, as could his descendants, regardless of how intelligent and useful to society they were, while an identical man from western Ireland or Russia was a free man by law.

Rich people generally don't give a shit who's putting in the labour, just so long as they don't actually have to do it themselves. And why pay wages when you can just own someone be they "Red", White or Black? Or did your history revisionists never teach you the real history of slavery in the Americas.
And don't try to sell me the horseshit that all the White slaves were merely "indentured servants" because it's horseshit.
Were their descendants chattel property?

As far as the Native people in Canada go, absolutely there was and still is racism towards them, but it's religion that makes people do truly horrible stuff to other people. Religion gives one the self-inherited "power of divine right" to rule over you no matter who you are, particularly when dealing with the three Abrahamic religions.
That religious "superiority" by the way, is just another form of classism.
Though again, a dumb-as-a-stump, non-English speaking Scot who just fell off the boat his local lord put him on to get his tiny dirt farm in the Clearances had superior rights to the Native people. Even though McTavish wasn't white either (Scots are pale blue).
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,387
9,547
113
Washington DC
It was the thinking of the time. We're talking about 1861 here... not 2017.
It was not "the thinking of the time." It was the thinking of a small group in a minority of the states of one country, a country that looked to Europe for its standards. What would befall a British, or Prussian, or Austrian, or French general who made war against his own king and lost?

Wouldn't be no statues, that's for damn sure.

You need to reread what I posted. I said the exact opposite.
Right enough. Brain fart. I had teh dumb.
 

Vbeacher

Electoral Member
Sep 9, 2013
651
36
28
Ottawa
Sorry, Vbeacher, but even in MacDonald's and Langevin's time, at least one Christian backbencher in Parliament spoke out quite passionately against the Indian residential school system. I'm still looking for his name online and will post it when I find it. The point is though that they did know better even then.

That one individual had a different set of beliefs is irrelevant to the point that for his time MacDonald was a forward thinking man. How many back then felt the best thing to do with natives was simply kill them all? They were savages, after all. MacDonald wanted to bring them into the mainstream. He believed that if their kids were properly educated and civilized then 'indians' could live in the towns and cities with the rest of us. This is the antithesis of racism, by the way, which presumes people are inferior or superior due to race, and that this can't be changed.

As to the cruelty of some of these schools. I invite people to look at the cruelty of other schools of the same period, especially how they treated poor kids, especially boys. Those were harsh times, and communicable diseases were rampant, both in schools and in society.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,387
9,547
113
Washington DC
Pol Pot
Stalin
Attila
Jeffrey Dhamer
Ted Bundy
John Wayne Gacy
The top three and the bottom three don't go together. It's like the Avengers: three near-gods, three slightly-more-than-human.

The top three were mass murderers on a large scale. The bottom three were common criminals.

And Attila was just making war and taking territory. He didn't do anything Julius Caesar or the British Crown didn't do. He just wasn't white.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
The top three and the bottom three don't go together. It's like the Avengers: three near-gods, three slightly-more-than-human.

The top three were mass murderers on a large scale. The bottom three were common criminals.

And Attila was just making war and taking territory. He didn't do anything Julius Caesar or the British Crown didn't do. He just wasn't white.


Agreed, particularly with respect to the Brits and Romans

I included individuals in terms that sometimes, the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.

In the end, humanity doesn't need any tangible reason to inflict pain and misery on other people (or animals)... A sad reality, but a reality nonetheless
 

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
7,300
2
36
That one individual had a different set of beliefs is irrelevant to the point that for his time MacDonald was a forward thinking man. How many back then felt the best thing to do with natives was simply kill them all? They were savages, after all. MacDonald wanted to bring them into the mainstream. He believed that if their kids were properly educated and civilized then 'indians' could live in the towns and cities with the rest of us. This is the antithesis of racism, by the way, which presumes people are inferior or superior due to race, and that this can't be changed.

As to the cruelty of some of these schools. I invite people to look at the cruelty of other schools of the same period, especially how they treated poor kids, especially boys. Those were harsh times, and communicable diseases were rampant, both in schools and in society.

Even the indigenous peoples themselves knew it was wrong, and they couldn't read the Bible. Are you saying they were morally superior?