Call for a Peaceful End to Zionism

[earth_as_one]

If Israel is dishing back what it gets, then what acts of violence did Palestinians commit in the last week?

Besides IDF's outrageous bulldozer rampage through Ramallah's downtown shopping district which randomly killed four holiday shoppers and wounded 20 others (described above), here are some other events which happened last week:

...another Israeli force invaded Bethlehem with at least 15 vehicles, wounding a Palestinian man before abducting him.

Local sources told IMEMC that the invasion targeted a neighborhood on the southern side of the city. Soldiers surrounded a number of houses and ransacked them. Rami Abu Khidor, a resident of the neighborhood, told IMEMC from inside his surrounded house that soldiers had invaded the area and opened fire at residents...

...The Palestinian Prisoners Society said that, during the past week, at least 32 Palestinian residents, including six children, were abducted by Israeli soldiers stationed at several checkpoints throughout the West Bank...

http://www.imemc.org/article/23549

How many Israeli citizens were abducted and murdered by Palestinians last week?

How about illegal Palestinian only colonies in Israel. Have Palestinians built or expanded any of those recently?

December 22 through December 29, 2006
...Israeli military authorities approved on Wednesday the construction of a new illegal settlement in the Jordan Valley north of the West Bank to house settlers who were removed from the Gaza Strip during the unilateral Israeli disengagement from the Gaza Strip in September of 2005. The construction of this settlement, originally intended to be a military base, began earlier this year but was only approved as a settlement to house civilians this week.

The United States administration rejected this move and said that it violated the US-backed Road Map peace plan which calls for the Israeli government to halt all construction and expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank. Prior to the disengagement from Gaza, Israel had promised it would not move former Gaza settlers to the West Bank...

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/12/351339.shtml

The United States "rejected the move". Americans have a hard time saying "blatantly violated past agreements" when it comes to Israel. Israel's blatant violation of the US's roadmap to peace never made headlines. Try finding an American news source which reported this story. This story is important, because Israel's ongoing ethnic cleansing is the root cause of Palestinian violence.

How about the week before that. How many Israelis did Palestinians abduct, murder or extra-judicially execute?

December 15 through December 22, 2006
...In this week's report from the Palestinian Center for Human Rights in Gaza, the Center documented the killing of 9 Palestinians, including a child, by Israeli forces in invasions of the Palestinian territories. Four of those killed were extra-judicially executed.

12 Palestinians, including 7 children and a woman, were wounded in 30 separate invasions of Palestinian areas, including two children wounded in Bil'in village, and a worker who was wounded by the Israeli gunfire while attempting to reach his work place inside Israel.

One of those killed this week was a thirteen-year-old girl named Do'a Abd Al-Qader from a village near the West Bank city of Tulkarem. The girl was shot by an Israeli sniper for walking too close to the Israeli annexation Wall. Israeli soldiers also injured twelve civilians while invading several refugee camps and cities in the West Bank, and abducted thirty-two, including three children. The injured included seven children and a woman.

Three Palestinians were assassinated by an Israeli undercover unit that infiltrated the West Bank city of Nablus on Tuesday, one of whom was assassinated next to a hospital in the city. The killing of these three men is considered extrajudicial assassination. Extrajudicial assassination, while illegal in international law, was ruled to be legal by the Israeli High Court of Justice last week....

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/12/351093.shtml

I could go back, week by week for 60 years and give daily examples of injustice, oppression, murder, illegal abductions, extra-judicial executions by Israeli death squads, illegal annexations and colonizations....

Israelis have suffered periodically from Palestinian violence, but conditions on the Israeli side of the wall are not desperate like they are on the Palestinian side. Israeli infrastructure (water, sewage, electricity) hasn't been destroyed. Israelis aren't dying from chronic shortages of clean water, food and medicine. Israeli citizens aren't dying while Palestinian militants hold up Israeli ambulances at Palestinian checkpoints.

We all know desperate people do desperate things. Palestinians are desperate and that makes some of them dangerous.

Before 1948, Israel didn't exist. The area known as Palestine was relatively peaceful. The Palestinians which includes Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together in relative harmony. Non-Jewish Palestinians are the victims here. They had no say about the flood of Jewish refugees which invaded their land during the Nazi holocaust. (While Canada and the US turned away boatloads of Jewish refugees). Palestinians had no say when heavily armed Jewish terrorists began ethnically cleansing them off their land (starting in 1947). Palestinian had no say when Canada and other nations voted at the UN to create Israel (1948 ). Palestinians had no say when neighboring countries turned their land into a war zone (1948 ). Palestinians had no say when the rest of Palestine was occuppied by Israel (1967). They have no say when Israel uses military force to relocate non-Jews to concentration camps and hands their property over to Jewish immigrants (1948 - present). Today, some Palestinians have resorted to violence in order to fight for freedom and justice. Well... no $hit Sherlock...

Over time, this problem will get worse. Israel has no intention of finding a fair or just peace with Palestinians. Sure Israeli leaders make flowery statements, but their actions indicate they have no intention of returning what they have taken illegally. Israeli leaders show no sign that they have stopped razing Palestinian homes or building new Jewish only colonies on Palestinian land. Israeli leaders have shown by their actions that their intention is to kill as many Palestinians as required to accomplish their plan to turn Palestine into a state where Jews have rights and freedoms while non-Jews have fewer rights and most of them live in conditions which meet the definition of concentration camps.

Most Palestinians have never committed any acts of violence. But each day, Israel's actions and the world's inactions convince more of them that freedom and justice can only be won through violence.

 

[Zzarchov]

Most Israelis never commit violence either Earth as one, why the double standard?


And what have they taken illegally? Nothing. the Originally Jewish settlers settled on Jewish land. The Arab settlers didn't like that (shifting the balance of power in any kind of democracy after all), tried to start a war (two actually) and failed both times.

If you try and rob a house and leave your handgun behind, it isn't theft for the new owner to take it.

And the Jewish settlers had every right to settle there. If I have a big ole patch of empty land next to your big ole patch of empty land, and I invite 200 people to build apartment buildings and live on my land, I haven't stolen anything from you..but the importance of your vote, which I did legally.

 

[northstar]

Palestine is not even a country, they are run by Hamas a Syrian financed Mob that are out to take whatever they can from Israel.

They have NO claim to the land they have been given at all, and being MUSLIM, earth doesn't know of the saying 'REAP WHAT YOU SOW".

So far, the Palestinians have not prospered in their land grant at all. Why? BECAUSE ALL THEY KNOW IS FIGHTING AND RAISING CHILDREN ON A STEADY DIET OF HATRED, thanks to the Law of Islam that fuels the Jihad Hamas Terrorist Organization. They clearly target civilian areas in order to murder innocent children in their sleep. Why, heck they are Jewish!!! After all, in the schools it is all about hating the Jews. And the schools only teach the Quran.

Shall we get into the many many video clips l have of the children being taught this hatred in Palestine?

This is a bunch of swatters who managed through terrorist activities, taught by mainstream Islam and carried out in the name of ALLAH, THE MOONGOD. They lucked out with a deal Land for Peace, but as Muhammad teaches, they can lie, it's okay says the Moon God, Allah...So Hamas has broken every treaty and why? Because they want EVERYTHING. And Muhammad has promised them EVERYTHING. Because he was the first to Hate, and he wrote it all down, parts in his self titled, SATANIC VERSES.

Accordingly, Hamas is a terrorist organization and Hamas rules Palestine.

Yep, Earth, you need to do some reading, you have no idea what you are talking about, the cut and paste from propaganda Hamas sites is obviously senseless drivel intended for a more gulible audience.

In earlier postings you were outright actively supporting Hamas, so how do you support Hamas from Canada, by coming on the forums, or do you find other ways to actively supporting Hamas while here in Canada? Just Curious, since after all this is a terrorist organization that has been murdering our Canadian peacekeeping troops.

 

[northstar]

CDNBear vbmenu_register("postmenu_763580", true);
Banned
Holy Advisor
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,336

Sig Heil!!!

This salute was hijacked from the Six Nations or Romans (I can't remember which), by Adulph, then passed on to the next Reicht, the Muslim Brotherhood and if you follow the followers, it leads you to the heart of the anti Israeli crowd.


Need I say more???"

 

[Sparrow]

Would someone please tell me why Bear was banned????

 

[earth_as_one]

Most Israelis never commit violence either Earth as one, why the double standard?


And what have they taken illegally? Nothing. the Originally Jewish settlers settled on Jewish land. The Arab settlers didn't like that (shifting the balance of power in any kind of democracy after all), tried to start a war (two actually) and failed both times.

If you try and rob a house and leave your handgun behind, it isn't theft for the new owner to take it.

And the Jewish settlers had every right to settle there. If I have a big ole patch of empty land next to your big ole patch of empty land, and I invite 200 people to build apartment buildings and live on my land, I haven't stolen anything from you..but the importance of your vote, which I did legally.

Israeli citizens are not the Israeli government.

Jewish immigrants and Jewish Palestinians who are now Israeli citizens own some Palestinian land legally. But the Israeli government acquired most Palestinian land in violation of international law as well in violation of conditions for its acceptance into the UN.

Israel created the world's biggest and longest lasting refugee problem. Each day, Israel creates new refugees by illegal home demotions and property seizure.

The people Israel ethnically cleanses off the land are not settlers or immigrants. These people lived here and owned property before Israel existed. They have legal rights and ownership based on Ottoman law, British Law and International Law.

Since Palestinian refugees were never Israeli citizens, Israel's relationship with these people is based on international laws, treaties and conventions as well the conditions it agreed to when it was accepted into the UN.

The Israeli government illegally seizes Palestinian property like homes, business, land, bank accounts, jewelry, cash...


Right of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes as well as respect for international laws, treaties and conventions were conditions for Israel's acceptance into the UN.

Israel as the occupying power is responsible for Palestinian security as well as ensuring their basic needs are met and their human rights are respected.

Canada and other nations voted to create Israel. We are responsible for the consequences of our actions. We are responsible for ensuring that Israel meets its UN obligations and the conditions for its acceptance into the UN.

The world has a duty and obligation to stop ethnic cleansing, crimes against humanity and war crimes.

 

[Logic 7]

Thanks Canadian Bear, you are a hero to our country, having honourably served our country, unlike other sniveling cowards here. And all your contributions are valid and very imformative.
They are supporting our country and our fight against terrorism and terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hezzbollah. Without your imput the people who read these posts would be recieving the terrorist sympathizer messages, that are false and tainted with false photographes and warped lies.

I have no idea why there is so much support to those who are against NATO, and support Terrorism. I have seen both Hamas and Hezzbollah toted on this forum as these wonderful groups when in fact they are criminals and dispicable in their torture and murder of innocent people in the name of Allah, a Moon God.

It is wonderful that people such as a soldier would take the time to contribute to this forum and it is shameful that he has been banned.

Hezbollah arent terrorist group, only 8 nation defines them as terrorist, according to me, they are liberators period.

What is shameful is the people who support the destruction of palestinians, lebanon,iraq,in the last year about 3000 innoncent peoples from lebanon and palestine has died, that is beside iraq, everything you guys support, when in fact hezbollah and hamas combined together havent killed 300 peoples including military and civilians, and you have the guts to claim others are terrorists, that is outrageous at the highest level.I think You have lost common sense for quite some times.

 

[earth_as_one]

Palestine is not even a country, they are run by Hamas a Syrian financed Mob that are out to take whatever they can from Israel.

They have NO claim to the land they have been given at all, and being MUSLIM, earth doesn't know of the saying 'REAP WHAT YOU SOW".

So far, the Palestinians have not prospered in their land grant at all. Why? BECAUSE ALL THEY KNOW IS FIGHTING AND RAISING CHILDREN ON A STEADY DIET OF HATRED, thanks to the Law of Islam that fuels the Jihad Hamas Terrorist Organization. They clearly target civilian areas in order to murder innocent children in their sleep. Why, heck they are Jewish!!! After all, in the schools it is all about hating the Jews. And the schools only teach the Quran.

Shall we get into the many many video clips l have of the children being taught this hatred in Palestine?

This is a bunch of swatters who managed through terrorist activities, taught by mainstream Islam and carried out in the name of ALLAH, THE MOONGOD. They lucked out with a deal Land for Peace, but as Muhammad teaches, they can lie, it's okay says the Moon God, Allah...So Hamas has broken every treaty and why? Because they want EVERYTHING. And Muhammad has promised them EVERYTHING. Because he was the first to Hate, and he wrote it all down, parts in his self titled, SATANIC VERSES.

Accordingly, Hamas is a terrorist organization and Hamas rules Palestine.

Yep, Earth, you need to do some reading, you have no idea what you are talking about, the cut and paste from propaganda Hamas sites is obviously senseless drivel intended for a more gulible audience.

In earlier postings you were outright actively supporting Hamas, so how do you support Hamas from Canada, by coming on the forums, or do you find other ways to actively supporting Hamas while here in Canada? Just Curious, since after all this is a terrorist organization that has been murdering our Canadian peacekeeping troops.

A lot of assumptions there. Let me correct a few.

I am agnostic, not Muslim.

I believe in non-violence. I do not support violence by anyone or any group. I challenge you to find a post I've made advocating violence.

Allah (Islam), Lord/God (Christianity), Jehovah (Judaism)... reference the same deity. These religions also reference many of the same prophets. Fundamental differences exist between these religions but they also share fundamental similarities.

Palestine was a peaceful corner of the world, before Zionism. Historically Palestinians (Jews, Muslims and Christians) co-existed peacefully and their culture was known for its hospitality. Palestinian Jews suffered far less discrimination that their European counterparts. Some Palestinians learned to become violent over the last 60 years as a consequence of being ethnically cleansed off their land and forced to live in conditions which meet the definition of concentration camps and war zones. Most Palestinians have never committed a violent act despite their suffering.

Far more Palestinian children have died in this conflict than Israeli children.

Far more Palestinians have died in this conflict than Israelis.

Israelis have committed far more crimes against humanity and war crimes than Palestinians.

The UN has issued far more resolutions condemning Israeli atrocities than Palestinian atrocities.

Hamas and Hezbollah could be described as terrorist organizations, resistance movements, charities and political organizations.

As far as I know Hamas hasn't killed any Canadians. Neither has Hezbollah. But Israel did vaporize a Canadian family in southern Lebanon this summer. I'm pretty sure Israel has killed far more journalists, innocent bystanders and non-violent protestors than either of these other organizations.

 

[northstar]

Hezzbollah are Terrorists Logic7, period.But don't worry, you are an illegal terrorist supporter so we don't expect much.

When our dear Imam ,Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini,... said that the regime must be removed, ...And it collapsed in a way that we have to refer to libraries because no trace of it is left.

Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map {Israel} and this was a very wise statement.

Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle...

earthgrub-as-one

Interesting that Earth now comes out of the closet about support of "our Dear" then naming the most evil terrorists that existed on the face of this earth. Do you feel comfortable now, since our War vet and our Military Expert have for some unknown mysterious reason, been banned?

This vile creater, like AhMADinJihad, is a poephiliatic child murderer, torturer and sadistic nut...may he rot and rust away in his steel coffin...here is his fine sick legecy that EARTH devotes "our dear" too ...

1. Fatwa for Slaamon Rushdie {the Satanic Verses was not Rushdie's idea, it is what Mu admitted and titled them himself after he wrote about how he hate Jews and wanted to kill them all, a rant that is remembered but was partially destroyed since it showed clearly the mental state of the author.

2. A Japanese translator is murdered as a result of this evil mans fatwas.

3. The murder of children as young as thirteeen who had been raped and tortured in Jail and then as a source of public amusement where murdered enmass by hangings from cranes, where they were to dangle for others to see before being thrown into a mass grave.

Khomeini fatwa 'led to killing of 30,000 in Iran'
By Christina Lamb, Diplomatic Correspondent
Last Updated: 3:55pm BST 19/06/2001



CHILDREN as young as 13 were hanged from cranes, six at a time, in a barbaric two-month purge of Iran's prisons on the direct orders of Ayatollah Khomeini, according to a new book by his former deputy.

More than 30,000 political prisoners were executed in the 1988 massacre - a far larger number than previously suspected. Secret documents smuggled out of Iran reveal that, because of the large numbers of necks to be broken, prisoners were loaded onto forklift trucks in groups of six and hanged from cranes in half-hourly intervals.

Gruesome details are contained in the memoirs of Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri, The Memoirs of Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, one of the founders of the Islamic regime. He was once considered Khomeini's anointed successor, but was deposed for his outspokenness, and is now under house arrest in the holy city of Qom.

advertisementPublished privately last month after attempts by the regime to suppress it, the revelations have prompted demands from Iranian exiles for those involved to be tried for crimes against humanity. The most damning of the letters and documents published in the book is Khomeini's fatwa decree calling for all Mojahedin (as opponents of the Iranian regime are known) to be killed.

Issued shortly after the end of the Iran-Iraq war in July 1988 and an incursion into western Iran by the Iranian resistance, the fatwa reads: "It is decreed that those who are in prisons throughout the country and remain steadfast in their support for the Monafeqin (Mojahedin) are waging war on God and are condemned to execution."

It goes on to entrust the decision to "death committees" - three-member panels consisting of an Islamic judge, a representative of the Ministry of Intelligence, and a state prosecutor. Prisoners were to be asked if they had changed loyalties and, if not, were to be executed.

Montazeri, who states that 3,800 people had been killed by the end of the first fortnight of executions, includes his own correspondence with Khomeini, saying that the killings would be seen as "a vendetta" and would spark opposition to the regime. He wrote: "The execution of several thousand prisoners in a few days will not have positive repercussions and will not be mistake-free."

The massacres, which came just before the Lockerbie bombing, were seen as a sop to the hardliners at a time when Khomeini was already in failing health and the battle for succession had begun between fundamentalists and moderates. He died the following year.

According to testimony from prison officials - including Kamal Afkhami Ardekani, who formerly worked at Evin prison - recently given to United Nations human rights rapporteurs: "They would line up prisoners in a 14-by-five-metre hall in the central office building and then ask simply one question, 'What is your political affiliation?' Those who said the Mojahedin would be hanged from cranes in position in the car park behind the building."

He went on to describe how, every half an hour from 7.30am to 5pm, 33 people were lifted on three forklift trucks to six cranes, each of which had five or six ropes. He said: "The process went on and on without interruption." In two weeks, 8,000 people were hanged. Similar carnage took place across the country.

Many of those in the ruling council at the time of the 1988 massacre are still in power, including President Mohammed Khatami, who was the Director of Ideological and Cultural Affairs.

"The massacre may have happened 12 years ago, but the relevance is that these atrocities are still happening", said Mohammad Mohaddessin, the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Iranian National Council of Resistance (NCRI), the main opposition group, who was in London last week to present evidence to MPs.

The NCRI has prepared files on 21 senior members of the regime whom it alleges were "principal protagonists of the massacre", including Mr Khatami and Ayatollah Ali Khameini, Iran's "Supreme Leader".

EVIL TERRORIST.

 

[hermanntrude]

generally when i find people shouting "it's a's fault!" at other people shouting "it's b's fault" i find that usually both is true and both of them need to change the way they think about the other. I know it's hard but isrealis and palestinians are either going to have to agree or disagree. fight or not fight. it's not up to us, is it?

 

[earth_as_one]

Well that's certainly a truism hermanntrude. Ultimately, its not up to us. But Canada isn't an innocent bystander either.

Canada voted in favor of creating the Jewish state called Israel back in 1948. As a result, 800,000 non-Jews who lived in the area we voted to make Israel were ethnically cleansed off their land by Jewish militants. Most of these refugees were unarmed and did not participate in any violent acts. One of the conditions of Israel's acceptance into the UN was to allow these refugees to return home. Israel has no intention of ever meeting the conditions for its acceptance into the UN and today these people number four million.

Is Canada responsible for the consequences of its vote to create Israel?

Is Canada partly responsible for the suffering of four million Palestinian refugees?

Does Canada have an obligation to try to make Israel abide by the conditions of its acceptance into the UN?

When Palestinians democratically elected Hamas in free and fair elections, Canada cut most of its aid to the Palestinian government. Canada refuses to aid Palestinians because it declared Hamas a "terrorist organization", despite the fact that most of Hamas's efforts are devoted to charity work, like building schools, hospitals and mosques. Hamas has committed violent acts of resistance against Israel's military occupation, but Hamas has also attempted to get Israel and the other Palestinian factions to agree to ceasefires. Hamas declared and maintained unilateral ceasefires while Israel abducted and assassinated Hamas leaders and killed Palestinian civilians.

Hamas declares a ceasefire
June 29, 2003
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3965.htm

Hamas ceasefire ends when Israel assassinates the Hamas leader who negotiated the ceasefire:
August 21, 2003
http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict/article_1469.jsp

February 2005
Hamas declares another unilateral ceasefire and maintains it, while Israel assassinates Hamas leaders:
http://www.world-crisis.com/news/1157_0_1_0_M/

June 2006
Hamas ceasefire ends when Israeli warships open fire on a beach crowded with Palestinian civilians.

BBC
June 10, 2006

...The military wing of the Palestinian militant group Hamas has said it will no longer respect a self-imposed truce. In a statement on its website, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigade said Israeli "massacres" had spurred the decision.

Seven people, including three children, died on Friday when Israeli shells hit a beach in the Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065982.stm

Curious H. Were you aware of these Hamas ceasefires or how they ended? Should these events have been reported in Canadian news?

Canada has chosen sides in this conflict. I think that's a mistake. We should not choose sides. We should send food and medicine to whoever needs it. I also think we have an obligation like the rest of the nations which voted to create this mess, to try to clean it up. That means accepting our fair share of the refugees as immigrants and pressuring both sides to make peace.

 

[hermanntrude]

when i said "we" i was referring to us, the serfs, the underlings, not canada as a whole.

 

[AndyF]

Earth:

Actually, the Jews that really matter say Israel should not exist, so Israel is really a bogus nation. God wants the Jews to live peacfully within the nation where they reside.

http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/judaism_isnot_zionism.cfm

AndyF

 

[earth_as_one]

Including Israel, I imagine.

 

[earth_as_one]

when i said "we" i was referring to us, the serfs, the underlings, not canada as a whole.

That's quite different. More profound than I'm used to here.

...

We have a duty to lookout for the welfare of others.

 

[Zzarchov]

I think those in Israel should be there.

As Canadians it is our Moral Obligation to either support Israel or Flee back to our lineages homelands.

It is hypocritical of us to say we deserve to be in Canada because we were born here despite how our ancestors originally gained the land, but then say those born in Israel should leave because of how their Ancestors gained the land.

They were born there, they are citizens of no other country and have a right to the land of their birth and no right to the land of their ancestors. The time when it would be morally acceptable to do anything with Israel has passed. Its in the annals of history now.

 

[gopher]

They were born there, they are citizens of no other country and have a right to the land of their birth and no right to the land of their ancestors.

Except that as has bene discussed previously, Ashkenazim Jews are NOT descended of Abraham and have no ancestral claim to the Promised Land. By contrast, those who say Jesus is Messiah (as do all Muslims) have a right to that Land as per the book of Galatians.

Therefore, as Israel is a member of the UN I repeat what I said previously -- the only solution is a one state solution.

 

[gc]

Why shouldn't people be allowed to live wherever they want? Why should anyone be able to tell anyone else "you are not allowed to live here" when the earth should be for everyone? This seems like a very liberal idea to me, and that is the view I support. So, why shouldn't a Jew be allowed to live anywhere, including Palestine?...Now, when Jews & Arabs lived in the same country, there was violence. A "solution" to this problem was to make separate states for Jews & Arabs. Of course, this didn't actually solve the problem, but what is the alternative? Should Jews & Arabs go back to living together in one state? Is that going to help end the violence? Not likely.

 

[gopher]

Why should anyone be able to tell anyone else "you are not allowed to live here" when the earth should be for everyone?

a one state solution where this right is recognized is my precise point

 

[gc]

a one state solution where this right is recognized is my precise point

But will a one state solution lead to more violence or less violence....that is my point.