British MP: I would prefer Muslim women not to wear the veil.

Blackleaf

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The TimesOctober 07, 2006
I would prefer women not to wear the veil at all, says Straw

By Anthony Browne, Chief Political Correspondent




JACK STRAW increased tensions with sections of Britain’s Muslim community over use of the Islamic veil yesterday by declaring his opposition to women wearing them at all.

The Leader of the Commons and the MP for Blackburn faced anger from Muslim groups, but won backing from, among others, the Prime Minister, a bishop and a Muslim peer.

Mr Straw, the MP for Blackburn, where one in five of his constituents is Muslim, toured broadcasting studios setting out his concerns that the growing use of veils that cover the face was damaging community relations. He had disclosed in a Lancashire newspaper that he had been asking constituents if they would mind removing the niqab covering their faces during meetings, so that he might see their facial expressions. He defended the right of Muslim women to wear a headscarf.



Yesterday, asked by BBC radio if he would in general prefer women not to wear veils, he said: “Yes. I’m not talking about being prescriptive but with all the caveats, yes, I would rather.”

He insisted that he was opposed to the veil being banned by law, but said that it was a visible sign of difference that was “bound to make better, positive relations between the two communities more difficult”.

“Communities are bound together partly by informal, chance relations between strangers, people being able to acknowledge each other in the street or being able to pass the time of day,” he said. “That is made more difficult if people are wearing a veil. That is just a fact of life.”

The Prime Minister’s official spokesman said yesterday that opposition to the veil was not government policy, but that Tony Blair “believes it is right that people should be able to have a discussion and express their personal views on issues such as this”.

Ahmed Versi, the editor of Muslim News, said that it had become “open season to demonise Islam”, adding: “Straw’s action will exacerbate fragile community relations. It will also send signals to Muslim women to keep away from his surgery, leading to refusal to participate in the democratic process.”

On Thursday Massoud Shadjareh, of the Islamic Human Rights Commission, accused Mr Straw of discrimination.

But some Muslim representatives were more sympathetic, and there was support from other sources. Daud Abdullah, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “This [veil] does cause some discomfort to non-Muslims. One can understand this.”

The Labour peer Baroness Uddin told GMTV yesterday that there was a need for debate, declaring: “It is about human rights on both sides — Jack’s right to say and the women’s right to wear what they please.” The Right Rev Richard Chartres, the Bishop of London, said: “I can understand why he has said it.”

Hazel Blears, the Labour Party chairwoman, said all sections of the community needed to discuss the Muslim veil and should not shirk the subject because of its sensitivity.

One minister told The Times: “Jack is pursuing a really important issue. He is not isolated. We need an honest debate: how much is it reasonable for Muslims to allow the State to adapt to their religion. We can’t just say ‘yes’ to everything.”
A telephone poll by the BBC also showed overwhelming public sympathy, with 93 per cent supporting his views.

Mr Straw, who has held Blackburn for Labour since 1979, did not wade into the debate accidentally. He started thinking about the issue about a year ago after a meeting with a constituent wearing a veil, at which he was disconcerted by his inability to see her facial expressions.
He said: “I had observed that, although it is still a tiny minority, more women were wearing the veil and picked up quite considerable concerns about this being a rather visible demonstration of separateness.”

He has since been discussing the issue not just with Muslim women, but also with MPs and ministers, and raised it at a conference organised by the Muslim Council of Britain in June. “He is not out on a limb,” a colleague said. “People understand it is an issue, and have been generally supportive.”

But he was bound to provoke anger for wading into an issue that has become increasingly sensitive among Muslim groups. Islamic countries, namely Turkey and Tunisia, pioneered legal bans on the veil. France bans religious symbols, such as the Islamic veil, from state schools.
---------------


***A Muslim woman has been left “extremely shocked and upset” after a man shouted racial abuse at her and snatched her veil as she waited at a bus stop, Merseyside Police said. The incident, in Liverpool, is being treated as a “hate crime”. The woman, 49, from the Toxteth area, was waiting for a bus yesterday morning when the attack by the man, described as white and in his sixties, occurred.


thetimesonline.co.uk
 

Researcher87

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Yeah trying to keep a religious minority from where their religious items. The West complains when the Iranian government makes Jewish members where stars of david, which was total false from a right-wing, paper and then when they want Muslim women to not wear the burka, and in the West they all do because they are not beingh forced but they want to wear it. We think it is all good and stuff.

Yeah we can marginalize and take action against our minorities and they can't? What the f*ing logic in that. Stupid, Britishness BNP, fascist kind of crap.
 

Sassylassie

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Jan 31, 2006
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How's this article for Fascist crap? I can post oh at least 20 more where Islam is forced down the throats of the British. Yep lets force our Allah on the Christian children, let me know if you'd like to see the one where the cabbie refused to drive a blind woman because her guard "Dog" was dirty under Islam?

By London Daily Mail
FrontPageMagazine.com | October 5, 2006

A hardline Muslim teacher who caused a furore by denouncing pupils for celebrating Christmas has been made a Government schools inspector.
Israr Khan’s Ofsted appointment was described by a former colleague as ‘absolutely astonishing’.
Mr Khan, now headmaster of an Islamic school, launched into his tirade during a concert rehearsal at Washwood Heath Secondary School in Birmingham in 1996 after the choir including around 40 Muslim youngsters, had sung a number of popular Christmas songs, including carols.
He leapt from his seat, yelling: “Who is your God? Why are you saying Jesus and Jesus Christ? God is not your God - it is Allah.”
As children in the audience began booing and clapping, a number of choir members - both white and Asian - walked out, some in tears.
Mr Khan, a maths teacher, was asked to work from home pending an investigation but there was no disciplinary action.
It has been claimed that Washwood Heath school was then a ‘hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism’. Rashid Rauf - the airline terror bomb suspect whose extradition is currently being sought from Pakistan - was a pupil there at that time.
Mr Khan left Washwood Heath a year later to found the independent Islamic Hamd House Preparatory School in Small Heath, Birmingham, where he is headmaster. Earlier this year, he was appointed as a governor of Anderton Park Primary School, in Sparkbrook, Birmingham.
 

Curiosity

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I remember an argument years back about passport/visa photos of Muslim women asking for dispensation of removing their veil for ID photos.

I don't know if it was required or not - never heard the end of the matter from Canada or the U.K.

My feeling then was security superceded tradition. This remark by Straw was a bit pricky.
 

Researcher87

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Sep 20, 2006
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How's this article for Fascist crap? I can post oh at least 20 more where Islam is forced down the throats of the British. Yep lets force our Allah on the Christian children, let me know if you'd like to see the one where the cabbie refused to drive a blind woman because her guard "Dog" was dirty under Islam?

By London Daily Mail
FrontPageMagazine.com | October 5, 2006

A hardline Muslim teacher who caused a furore by denouncing pupils for celebrating Christmas has been made a Government schools inspector.
Israr Khan’s Ofsted appointment was described by a former colleague as ‘absolutely astonishing’.
Mr Khan, now headmaster of an Islamic school, launched into his tirade during a concert rehearsal at Washwood Heath Secondary School in Birmingham in 1996 after the choir including around 40 Muslim youngsters, had sung a number of popular Christmas songs, including carols.
He leapt from his seat, yelling: “Who is your God? Why are you saying Jesus and Jesus Christ? God is not your God - it is Allah.”
As children in the audience began booing and clapping, a number of choir members - both white and Asian - walked out, some in tears.
Mr Khan, a maths teacher, was asked to work from home pending an investigation but there was no disciplinary action.
It has been claimed that Washwood Heath school was then a ‘hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism’. Rashid Rauf - the airline terror bomb suspect whose extradition is currently being sought from Pakistan - was a pupil there at that time.
Mr Khan left Washwood Heath a year later to found the independent Islamic Hamd House Preparatory School in Small Heath, Birmingham, where he is headmaster. Earlier this year, he was appointed as a governor of Anderton Park Primary School, in Sparkbrook, Birmingham.

Just keep you Islamic hating Fascist crap to your hating self. 90% of the world is not interested because they know it has nothing to do with the Islamic community. You never answered about the little Christian men going into schools and killing little girls, so you just believe like some fascists in America and britain that everything has to do with Muslims and they are a disease, I can surely bring up report after report of Christians making fun of Aboriginal celebrations, making fun of athiests, and beating up people but I don't pin that on Christians.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Why should I keep true stories to myself, if it's true why are you so angry. I don't make this stuff up it happens should we hide these stories? Why the fear? Researcher when a Radical Commits foul acts in the name of "Allah" it's about religion. I'd be happy to read articles where Christians are shoving their beliefs violently down non-christians throats, by all means post them. I'm half Native by the way, and this isn't about hate it's about educating those who blame the West for being Racists, Islam is a religion not a race. You however sound more like a fascist than moi.

Curio, yes I remember that little tid bit about passports. How can a boarder guard be sure the person in the full Burka is the person in the passport if their is no face showing. It's not about religion but safty.

Here's another article for you researcher, whom shoving whoms beliefs down who's throats?

I was happy when I heard of Sept 11 attacks, terror suspect tells court
By Duncan Gardham

(Filed: 15/09/2006)





One of the leaders of a group of British Muslims allegedly planning a bomb attack on a shopping centre and nightclub told a court yesterday that he was happy when he heard about the September 11 attacks.
Omar Khyam, of Crawley, West Sussex, said America was the greatest enemy of Islam because it had put puppet regimes in Muslim nations.
Omar KhyamAs the defence opened in the case, which has been running for almost six months, Khyam, 24, was asked if he believed in a cause.
He replied: "The freedom of Muslim lands from occupation."
Khyam said there were people around the world and in Pakistan who were still working for "the cause" and he would not give details about all of their meetings.
"I still believe in that cause and I don't want them arrested," he added.
It is claimed that the gang of seven was planning to use half a ton of ammonium nitrate stored in a lock-up in north-west London to blow up the Bluewater shopping centre in Kent or the Ministry of Sound nightclub in central London.
Khyam said his grandfather had fought with the British Army in the Second World War and joined the Pakistani army after independence before moving to Britain in the 1970s.
Growing up in Crawley, Khyam said he went to the mosque every evening after school between the ages of five and 11 to learn the Koran in Arabic.
His parents divorced when he was 10 and Khyam was sent to a mainly white school in Crawley where he did well academically and was captain of the cricket team.
But he achieved disappointing GCSE results and began to take his religion more seriously, praying five times a day, the court heard.
He moved to a college in Redhill to take his A-levels and became involved with the radical group al-Muhajiroun, which showed him videos of Muslims being killed in Bosnia and Chechnya.
That summer, aged 17, he went on a family holiday to Pakistan.
He came across a marquee run by a Kashmiri group called al-Badr Mujahideen, where a senior member of the group urged him to go to Kashmir for military training.
However, he was also told to "look like a Muslim and start learning my religion because the way I came across was ignorant". Khyam returned to Britain but fled in January 2000. He went to Pakistan and told a taxi driver: "Take me to the mujahideen office." He said he spent the next three months in the mountains of Kashmir training with weapons, before his group received a radio message saying his grandfather was waiting for him at the bottom of the mountains with the Pakistan security service.
Although his mother was not pleased, Khyam said he received a hero's welcome when he got home: "Some of my younger cousins were standing in two rows and they threw flowers at me as though I was getting married."
He was sent to work with his father in his clothing business in Belgium but the following summer, in 2001, instead of taking his A-levels, he flew back to Pakistan and crossed into Afghanistan to meet the Taliban.
"They were soft, kind and humble to Muslims and harsh to their enemies," he said.
On his return to west London, Khyam set about raising funds for Afghanistan. He went back to Pakistan in 2002 and 2003.
He said Britain was not considered a target until after the invasion of Iraq.
"Before, myself and others may have made excuses, now people were silent," he said. "When they said the UK needed to be attacked, there would be no defending the UK." But he denied he had been told to attack Britain.
"I believe we should be working in our countries, Muslim countries, to establish Muslim states and not waste resources elsewhere."
In 2003 he said his younger brother, Shujah, was sent to join him from Crawley because he had been vandalising cars near a mosque.
Khyam said he sent his brother to a training camp on the Afghan border. "I was busy with the cause. It was the easiest thing to do."
Khyam and his brother Shujah ud din Mahmood, 19, along with Jawad Akbar, 22, his cousin Nabeel Hussain, 20, and Waheed Mahmood, 34, all from Crawley, West Sussex, as well as Anthony Garcia, 24, from Ilford, Essex, and Salahuddin Amin, 31, of Luton, Beds, all deny conspiracy to cause explosions.
The trial continues.
• Atilla Ahmet, 42, from south-east London, appeared at City of Westminster magistrates' court yesterday accused of encouraging people to murder those who do not believe in Islam. He was remanded in custody until Sept 29 to appear at the Old Bailey.


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Researcher87

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Base of Operation: United States
Founding Philosophy: The Army of God is an underground network of terrorists who believe that the use of violence is an appropriate tool for fighting against abortion. An excerpt from the Army of God Manual says that the Army of God "is a real Army, and God is the General and Commander-in-Chief. The soldiers, however, do not usually communicate with one another. Very few have ever met each other. And when they do, each is usually unaware of the other's soldier status. That is why the Feds will never stop this Army. Never. And we have not yet even begun to fight." Pastor Michael Bray is the Chaplain of the Army of God. He hosts the annual "White Rose Banquet" honoring those imprisoned for anti-abortion violence. He also wrote the book "A Time to Kill," which provides a biblical justification for the use of violence against abortion providers. Bray has served time in jail for bombing abortion clinics. Bray's daughter is named after a murderer of an abortion doctor.


The Army of God manual is a "how to" for abortion clinic violence. It details methods for blockading entrances, attacking with butyric acid, arson, bomb making, and other illegal activities. The manual contains anti-abortion language as well as anti-government and anti-gay/lesbian language. The manual begins with a declaration of war on the abortion industry and continues, "Our Most Dread Sovereign Lord God requires that whosoever sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed. Not out of hatred of you, but out of love for the persons you exterminate, we are forced to take arms against you. Our life for yours - a simple equation....You shall not be tortured at our hands. Vengeance belongs to God only. However, execution is rarely gentle."

Several Army of God members have been involved in highly publicized incidents of terrorism. Eric Robert Rudolph was charged with the Atlanta Olympic bombing, as well as the bombings of an abortion clinic and a gay bar in Atlanta. Secondary bombs, designed to detonate after emergency service personnel arrived at the scene, were planted at both the abortion clinic and the gay bar. Another Army of God member, James Kopp, was convicted in the fatal shooting of clinic doctor Dr. Barnett Slepian in 1998. Kopp is believed to be connected with a half dozen other similar shootings that took place between 1994 and 1997. Clayton Waagner, the man who has claimed responsibility for sending over 550 anthrax threat letters to clinics in 2001, signed many of his threat letters with the name Army of God. He also posted threats to kill 42 individuals working at abortion clinics on the Army of God website.
Current Goals: Recent reports have noted the Army's increased anti-gay rhetoric and worry that this may be a precursor to attacks on gays and lesbians.
MIPT Terrorism
 

EastSideScotian

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Jun 9, 2006
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Yeah trying to keep a religious minority from where their religious items. The West complains when the Iranian government makes Jewish members where stars of david, which was total false from a right-wing, paper and then when they want Muslim women to not wear the burka, and in the West they all do because they are not beingh forced but they want to wear it. We think it is all good and stuff.

Yeah we can marginalize and take action against our minorities and they can't? What the f*ing logic in that. Stupid, Britishness BNP, fascist kind of crap.
HAHA...way off

The star is to let evryone know they are Jews.....the Veil lets evryone know they are Muslims...

See what I am saying....Irains would of wanted the complete oppisite isntead of hideing the fact they they are Jews they would of wanted evryone to know they are jews...follow me?

Now by removing the veil it will hide the fact that they are muslim....or atleast make it more tricky to know....

The reasoning Iam sur eis to cut back on racism...


All in all I disagree, we should be able to practice our faiths, however and whichever way we want and see fit....Seperation of Church and state, should also mean seperation of Masque and state...stay out of their biz.
 

Researcher87

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Then you have Reisdential schools,

August 02, 2006

Persecution

An anonymous commenter brought to my attention an article than ran recently in The New York Times. To sum it up there is a family in Georgetown, Delaware that was verbally and emotionally attacked because of their faith. It all started because the mother wanted to change things in the school that she saw when her daughter attended and made her felt left-out and uncomfortable. As soon as the mother brought the issues to the school and local government's attention the persecution began and she and her family felt compelled to move away.

"It was as if no matter how much hard work, no matter how good a person you are, the only way you'll ever be anything is through Jesus Christ," Mrs. Dobrich said.​
Mrs. Dobrich and her family are Jewish. During a board meeting to discuss the matter Mrs. Dobrich and her family met the opposition head on.

Her son had written a short statement, but he felt so intimidated that his sister read it for him. In his statement, Alex, who was 11 then, said: "I feel bad when kids in my class call me 'Jew boy.' I do not want to move away from the house I have lived in forever." Later, another speaker turned to Mrs. Dobrich and said, according to several witnesses, "If you want people to stop calling him 'Jew boy,' you tell him to give his heart to Jesus."​
It seems that the entire community has come together in a spirit of hatred against this family and used the Word as their weapon.

"Because Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, I will speak out for him," said the Rev. Jerry Fike of Mount Olivet Brethren Church, who gave the prayer at Samantha's graduation. "The Bible encourages that." Mr. Fike continued: "Ultimately, he is the one I have to please. If doing that places me at odds with the law of the land, I still have to follow him."​
This story and issue again strikes at the heart of the matter of what we have been talking about the past week or so. Is Christianity exclusive? As can be seen in this and many other incidents the answer is yes and unfortunately it is taken to the point of being hostile. In this case the community became hostile because they felt like their way of life was coming under attack. Was it? I believe so, but I also see that Mrs. Dobrich had no hostile or mean spirited intentions, which is better than what she received in return. All she was trying to accomplish was to create an atmosphere in the schools that would not make children feel ostracized. I'm sure that the community saw this as another in a series of attacks on Christianity around the nation.
Does this make it ok for them to respond like they did? No, of course not. As Christians we are never to act like they did even though it seems to be a trend for Christianity over the centuries. Too many times have Christians become overzealous in their defense of the word and spread of the Gospel. The Crusaders, and the Conquistadors are just a couple of examples where the Word of God was used a broadsword and non-believers were forced to believe. In this community there was no apparent physical violence but the words and treatment was just as harsh. It never should have happened. Mrs. Dobrich and her family should have been loved and treated with care, instead they were attacked.
I know that in a past entry I did affirm that Christianity is exclusionary but I think my statement may have been misunderstood by some. Christianity is exclusive in the fact that 1. To be a Christian you must accept Christ, 2. Once you are a Christian you have special spiritual privileges, and 3. Spiritually you are separate from non-believers. Christianity is not an exclusive club in that only certain people can get in and once you are in you are to exclude others. Anybody can be a believer. Once you are a believer you are to show love to everybody regardless of who they are. We have talked a whole lot about love recently here and unfortunately I have had to be on the opposite side of that talk, but love is of the utmost importance to the Christian.
John 15:12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

We are to act out of love, and love everybody. No one should be left behind. Christians do no wish for anybody to go to hell, but just because we don't wish anybody to go to hell doesn't mean that it is not going to happen. As such we should do all we can to prevent others from suffering in hell, but not in a way that is going to turn people away from God. This community may have been theologically sound in their thinking but their actions were most certainly not. Were they right that Mrs. Dobrich and her family will not be saved if they do not believe in Jesus? Yes. Were they right in their actions towards them? No. There should have been an outpouring of love towards the Dobrichs, even if they never changed their minds about Jesus. The community's actions only served to push them away from the truth, and the last statement presented in the New York Times article proves this:


The only thing to flourish, Mrs. Dobrich said, was her faith. Her children, she said, "have so much pride in their religion now." "Alex wears his yarmulke all the time. He never takes it off."​
http://blogs.chron.com/thinkingchristian/2006/08/persecution.html

The British National Party (BNP) is the most prominent far-right political party in the United Kingdom. It has 53 councillors in local government, but unlike some of its European analogues, it has no presence in the national Parliament; some argue that this is because the UK's first-past-the-post system makes it difficult for small parties to achieve electoral success in UK elections.[2] Accounts filed with the Electoral Commission for the year 2005 state the BNP had a paid-up membership of 6,502 (up slightly from the previous year), and recorded an annual loss of £94,711 leaving the party with debts of £52,512.[3]
According to its constitution, the BNP "stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples", and is "committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948". To achieve this aim, the BNP advocates the use of "firm but voluntary incentives" to remove ethnic minorities from the UK.[4] Membership of the party is restricted to "Indigenous Caucasians." [2]
The BNP itself denies that it is racist, however, stating that it is merely standing up for the white British working class. The party believes that racism is a part of human nature and describes its supporters as "realists".[5]
Opposition to the BNP includes politicians as diverse as David Cameron [3] and Ken Livingstone [4], and is a primary aim of such groups as Searchlight and Unite Against Fascism.
Founding of the modern BNP

The modern BNP has its roots in the New National Front, founded in 1980 by the late John Tyndall, a former chairman of the National Front (NF) and veteran National Socialist ideologue. Tyndall was a member of the previous (1960s) BNP, which itself was one of the organizations that eventually became the NF, and was Chairman of the Front for most of the 1970s. Following the 1979 general election Tyndall came under heavy criticism after the party's strategy of nominating a large number of candidates was perceived to have failed. He resigned from the Front in January 1980 after failing to oust its National Organiser, Martin Webster. The New National Front called for an "Anglo-Saxon Alliance" of the UK, Germany and the USA.[6]
[edit]
 

Researcher87

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During the Taliban rule of Afghanistan the world got a good look at what happens when religious zealots gain control of a government. Television images of women being beaten, forced to wear burkas, and banned from schools and the workplace helped build strong public support for the President's decision to invade Afghanistan in the wake of 9/11.
But even as President George W. Bush denounced the brutal Islamic fundamentalist regime in Kabul, he was quietly laying the foundations for his own fundamentalist regime at home. For the first time far right Christian fundamentalists had one of their own in the White House and the opportunity to begin rolling back decades of health and family planning programs they saw as un-Christian, if not downright sinful.
Since 2001 dozens of far-right Christian fundamentalists have been quietly installed in key positions within the Department of Health and Human Services, the Federal Drug Administration and on commissions and advisory committees where they have made serious progress. Three years later this administration has established one of the most rigid sexual health agendas in the Western world.
It began immediately. One of George W. Bush's first acts as president was to issue an executive memorandum reinstating a global abortion "gag rule." The rule was first implemented under Ronald Reagan but revoked during the two Clinton administrations. The rule prohibited federally funded family planning providers from even discussing abortion with their clients.
Bush's order reflected the views of those at farthest reaches of the Christian right, zealots who saw any means by which women controlled reproduction as unbiblical:
"I would like to outlaw contraception...contraception is disgusting -- people using each other for pleasure." -Joseph Scheidler, Pro-Life Action League
"I don't think Christians should use birth control. You consummate your marriage as often as you like -- and if you have babies, you have babies." Randall Terry, Operation Rescue
Over the next twelve months the administration moved quickly to install similarly-minded Christian fundamentalists to positions of authority and influence over all matters relating to reproductive and sexual health.
Dr. Alma Golden: appointed Deputy Assistant Secretary of Population Affairs. A Texas pediatrician, she is a longtime proponent of abstinence as the only acceptable means of birth control. Dr. Golden declared that henceforth the department would stress "abstinence-only" as the solution to unwanted pregnancies, not just for teens, but unmarried adults as well.
Tom Coburn: Former Republican congressman and anti-condom crusader. Appointed co-chair of the Presidential Advisory Council on HIV and AIDS. While in congress Coburn tried to force condom manufacturers to label condoms as "ineffective" against the spread of sexually transmitted infections. "I will challenge the national focus on condom use to prevent the spread of HIV," Coburn said upon his appointment.
Dr. Joseph McIlhaney, Jr.: Appointed to Coburn on the HIV and AIDS advisory council. McIlhaney has a long and well-documented history of disseminating misleading data on condom failure rates. He was appointed in spite of the fact that in 1995 Governor George W. Bush's own Texas Commissioner of Health openly denounced McIhaney's anti-condom propaganda and his professional credibility.
Dr. W. David Hager: Appointed to the FDA's Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. Dr. Hager served as spokesperson for the Christian Medical Association. He authored the book, As Jesus Cared for Women: Restoring Women Then and Now, and co-authored a book that recommended scripture readings and prayers to relieve the symptoms of PMS. Dr. Hager opposes prescribing contraceptives to unmarried women and spearheaded a petition drive by the Christian Medical Association to revoke the FDA's approval of mifepristone, the so-called "morning after pill."
Dr. Joseph B. Stanford: Also appointed to the Reproductive Health Drugs Advisory Committee. Dr. Stanford is on record for his belief that the only acceptable form of contraception, besides abstinence, is the all-natural "rhythm method." Dr. Stanford refuses to prescribe contraceptives, stating that "(modern) medicine is permeated with attitudes toward sexuality and fertility that are incompatible with Christian values of the sanctity of life, marriage, and procreation, attitudes that both reflect and perpetuate the recreational approach to sexuality found in our secular culture."
Susan A. Crockett: The third Christian fundamentalist appointed to the same FDA committee. Crockett served as a board member of the American Association of Pro-life Obstetricians and Gynecologists. She co-authored, "Using Hormone Contraceptives is a Decision Involving Science, Scripture, and Conscience" in the book, The Reproductive Revolution: A Christian Appraisal of Sexuality, Reproductive Technologies and the Family. The book was edited by Dr. Hager.
When the hot issue of stem-cell research came up, President Bush dismissed two members of his Council on Bioethics who had each strongly supported the use of embryonic stem cells in research. They were replaced by three new members who, as the pro-life Family Research Council reported, "fall more in line with the President's pro-life views."
Information became a prime target of the Christian Taliban. President Bush says he respects "good science," when making public policy. But, the crux of the matter apparently hinges on the definition of "good," especially when it comes to family-planning issues. When good science clashes with Biblical fundamentalist beliefs in this administration, science loses every time.
Early in 2001 Bush's Christian Taliban began scrubbing federal information sources of offending materials. The censorship campaign prompted Representative Henry Waxman (D-CA) to send a letter to o HHS Secretary Thompson demanding an explanation for the removal of information from the HHS Web site of scientific findings by the National Cancer Institute that, contrary to anti-choice propaganda, abortions do not increase the risk of breast cancer. Thompson never responded but the "cleansing" continued.
  • Scientific data on condom use, long available on government health Web sites, was removed and replaced by sermons on abstinence and alarmist propaganda that exaggerated the risks of condom use.
  • The phrase "reproductive health" was expunged and replaced with the vague terms "related clinical preventive health services" and "related preventive health services."
  • Links to non-governmental family planning resources were deleted.
  • Web sites at the Centers of Disease Control and National Institute of Health were cleared of scientific studies and materials relating to abortion and condom use.
  • At the CDC results from a peer-reviewed study showing that education about condom use did not result in increased sexual activity or sex at younger age, were deleted from the Web site.
  • The NIH's Web site was cleaned of FAQ's on condom effectiveness and a sexuality education curriculum called "Programs that Work."
Good science was disappearing from government publications and Web sites at such a pace that the Union of Concerned Scientists issued a report in early 2004 documenting and condemning the Bush administration.

There is significant evidence that the scope and scale of the manipulation, suppression and misrepresentation of science by the Bush administration is unprecedented... There is a well-established pattern of suppression and distortion of scientific findings by high-ranking Bush administration political appointees across numerous federal agencies. These actions have consequences for human health, public safety, and community well-being." (Union of Concerned Scientists, report, Scientific Integrity in Policymaking. 2004.)​
So, even as the Bush administration denounced and battled Islamic religious zealotry abroad it was and is nurturing a fundamentalist Christian version here at home, much to the delight of radical right-wing Christians.
"Contrary to popular opinion, the Bible is not neutral about what kind of government we should have," states Dr. Mark Allen Ludwig, author of True Christian Government.
"God gave governments responsibility only for infrastructure and defense," according to an article by Rev. Bob Enyart, pastor of Denver Bible Church. "If government limited itself to its two just functions, thereby getting out of education, health care, farming, etc., it could better defend America. ... Christians who carefully study the Bible are best qualified to teach the world how it should be governed."
One of the oldest and best-established forces in the Christian Taliban attack on secular government has been the Christian Coalition. Recently the group threw its full weight behind the President's push for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. The Christian Coalition has been conducting a "Let's Take America Back" national petition drive over the last several months, which now also includes support for the so-called Federal Marriage Amendment. The Christian Coalition mission statement states:

We are driven by the belief that people of faith have a right and a responsibility to be involved in the world around them. That involvement includes community, social and political action. Whether on a stump, in print, over the airways the Christian Coalition is dedicated to equipping and educating God's people with the resources and information to battle against anti-family legislation.​
What is remarkable is that this was accomplished without significant public outcry. The reason is that America's Christian Taliban are more public relations savvy than their Islamic counterparts. No American women are being forced to cover up, beaten for appearing in public wearing make up, or barred from the workplace. The changes being made are more subtle and less visibly shocking. They are incremental, technical, administrative -- but far-reaching.
They have also gotten away with it because we Americans like to consider ourselves tolerant and respectful of religious beliefs. Openly criticizing someone's religious beliefs ranks right up there with racism and bigotry -- a fact the Christian Right has used to stifle opposition to its agenda.
Mainstream Christians share secularists' concern over workings of Bush's Christian Taliban. Speaking at the National Press Club last year, Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice President Rev. Carlton W. Veazey condemned the "back-door attempts by the Bush Administration to radically alter policies and practices concerning abortion, family planning, and sexuality education to conform to extreme views."
So, it may be time to admit that our tolerance of Christian fundamentalists is turning us into a nation of chumps. By claiming it is they who are being persecuted, the Christian Taliban have cowed mainstream Christians and secularists into silence, even as they impose their own faith-based governance upon us.
We need to reconnect with a fundamental ingredient of America's strength: the separation of church and state. That wall of separation has for over two centuries spared Americans ftom the kind of religious strife witnessed in Bosnia, the Middle East, Northern Ireland and Afghanistan.
Mixing religious dogma and public policy always creates an explosive compound -- and it always blows.

http://www.alternet.org/story/18259/
 

Researcher87

Electoral Member
Sep 20, 2006
496
2
18
In Monsoon West (B.C)
Overview:

The arrival of Europeans to North and South America marked a major change in Native society. Millions died due to sickness, programs of slavery, and extermination. 1 Europeans and their missionaries generally looked upon Native Spirituality as worthless superstition inspired by the Christian devil, Satan.
"During the colonial period, the 650 aboriginal nations in Canada were relegated to reserves, usually in isolated, unproductive regions of the country. Native populations declined drastically until the 1940s, languages were lost, and traditional ceremonies were outlawed." 2
Native spirituality was actively suppressed by the U.S. and Canadian governments. Spiritual leaders ran the risk of jail sentences of up to 30 years for simply practicing their religious rituals. This came to an end in the U.S. when the American Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978 was passed (later amended in 1994). 3,4 Canadian Natives obtained a guarantee of religious freedom with the rest of Canadians in 1982 when the Canadian Charter of rights and Freedoms was passed.
During the late 19th century and much of the 20th century, the Canadian and American governments goal for their Native populations was assimilation. Sometimes this is referred to contemptuously as "Making apples" -- changing the culture and religion of Native peoples so that they become "white" on the inside, even as their skin remained red. The goal was to force Natives to disappear within the larger, predominately white, society. A key component of this policy were the residential schools, which were operated for over a century, from 1879 -- shortly after Confederation -- to 1986. About 160,000 Native students passed through the school system. About 91,000 claim that they were physically and/or sexually abused. 5
The end result of various assimilation processes can be seen in the current mental health of First Nations people. A rough indication of this is mirrored in their suicide rates. Canada's overall suicide rate is typically about 14 per 100,000 people -- a little higher than the U.S. Suicide rates in the First Nations populations are two or three times higher. 6 An extremely high rate of 80.2 has been observed among 10 to 19 year-old Native males living on the northern coast of Labrador.
According to Glen Coulthard of the University of Alberta, The Canadian government's policies included the destruction of much of Native culture, values and religion. 7 With the help of the Christian churches, these traditions were largely replaced with versions of western Christianity. The main players were the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Church of Canada, the United Church of Canada, and the Presbyterian Church in Canada. The government financed residential school systems; religious institutions ran them. Sometimes, children were kidnapped and taken long distances from their communities in order to attend school. Once there, they were held captive, isolated from their families of origin, and forcibly stripped of their language, religion, traditions and culture. Many native children grew up with little knowledge of their original culture.
Not mentioned in Coulthard's essay was the extremely high level of physical and sexual abuse suffered by Native children at the religious schools. The result has been that, as adults, many suffer with depression, have difficulty in parenting, and live with a loss of culture. Some commit suicide.

The residential schools:

They were operated over the period 1879 to 1986. "Department of Indian Affairs reports...show that between 1890 and 1965 an average of 7,100 native students attended residential schools compared to 11,400 who attended day schools in the same period." 8
Author Jim Miller has commented: "Writing about the 'Basic Concepts and Objectives' of Canada's Indian policy in 1945, an official of the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs put his finger squarely on the motivation behind residential schools. Noting Ottawa's desire to promote self-sufficiency among the indigenous population, and rightly zeroing in on Canada's systematic attack on traditional Indian religion and cultural practices, the observer concluded that the dominion's purpose was assimilation. As important as the push for self-support and Christianization [sic] among the Indians was in its own right, it was 'also means to another end: full citizenship and absorption into the body politic.' Clearly, Canada chose to eliminate Indians by assimilating them, unlike the Americans, who had sought to exterminate them physically. 'In other words, the extinction of the Indians as Indians is the ultimate end' of Canadian Indian policy, noted the American official." 8 Some definitions of the term "Genocide" would encompass such assimilation. 9
Students[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica] were often beaten if they spoke their native language, or practiced their faith's rituals. There are allegations that the students were often poorly fed and clothed. Sexual and physical abuse was widespread. Individual natives and native communities continue to suffer the after-effects of students' brutal and criminal treatment in these schools. [/FONT]​
References used:

  1. Ward Churchill, "A Little Matter of Genocide: Holocaust and Denial in the Americas, 1492 to the Present," City Lights Books, (1998). Read reviews and/or order this book
  2. Mark Bourrie, "Rights: Canada Apologizes For Abuse of Native Peoples," at: http://www.oneworld.org/ips2/jan98/canada2.html
  3. Text of the "American Indian Religious Freedom Act," at: http://www.erowid.org/freedom/religious/airfa.shtml
  4. Text of the "American Indian Religious Freedom Act Amendments of 1994," at: http://www.erowid.org/freedom/religious
  5. "Judge throws out lawsuits against Anglican Church seeking redress for abuse," The Globe and Mail, Toronto, Canada, 2002-OCT-25, Page A15.
  6. "Suicide in Canada," at: http://www.sarnia.com/groups/suicideprevention/
  7. Glen Coulthard, "Colonization, Indian policy, suicide and Aboriginal peoples," 1998-JAN, at: http://www.ualberta.ca/~pimohte/
  8. "Response to Recent National Post Articles on Residential Schools," 2001-MAR-23, United Church of Canada, at: http://www.uccan.org/airs/010323.htm
  9. Dan Lukiv, "Aboriginal Education in Quesnel Now, Cultural Genocide in Canada Then," at: http://www.eastern.edu/publications/emme/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sch_resid1.htm
 

Researcher87

Electoral Member
Sep 20, 2006
496
2
18
In Monsoon West (B.C)
HAHA...way off

The star is to let evryone know they are Jews.....the Veil lets evryone know they are Muslims...

See what I am saying....Irains would of wanted the complete oppisite isntead of hideing the fact they they are Jews they would of wanted evryone to know they are jews...follow me?

Now by removing the veil it will hide the fact that they are muslim....or atleast make it more tricky to know....

The reasoning Iam sur eis to cut back on racism...


All in all I disagree, we should be able to practice our faiths, however and whichever way we want and see fit....Seperation of Church and state, should also mean seperation of Masque and state...stay out of their biz.

I agree with this statment. Church and state should stay far away and the mosque should stay away from the state, but it also means the government shouldn't get in religious affairs.
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
3
18
40
Petawawa Ontario
Since you didnt read the reasoning...and also the reason your way the hell off with this being facism int he first place, moreover the reaosn you look like and idiot trying to argue it. Read my first response in this thread.
HAHA...way off

The star is to let evryone know they are Jews.....the Veil lets evryone know they are Muslims...

See what I am saying....Irains would of wanted the complete oppisite isntead of hideing the fact they they are Jews they would of wanted evryone to know they are jews...follow me?

Now by removing the veil it will hide the fact that they are muslim....or atleast make it more tricky to know....

The reasoning Iam sur eis to cut back on racism...


All in all I disagree, we should be able to practice our faiths, however and whichever way we want and see fit....Seperation of Church and state, should also mean seperation of Masque and state...stay out of their biz.

secondly...
I have already posted my thoughts on this issue, Sassy asked me to find evidence, I am posting in, that is what a researcher does. Backs up with additional evidence.
Your Evidence, is other peoples opinions......how does that back up anything but your own Opinnion...if i wanted I could find all kinds of people who shared the same opinion as me, and post what they think, I could find news areticales that swing my way too...not that hard.

As for your argument perhaps if you want to argue Facism you should find out what it is....its not hate towards other races. Its a Government system with a dictator.

Not a governemtn that wants to kill off a group of people....thats just waht Hittler did....Check out some other Facist governemtns...Italy in their area, had no hate towards the Jews, it wasnt untill the Nazis occupied Italy that the Jews were harmed, and before then Mussalini did it because Hittler asked him too, and he didnt do it the way hittler wanted him too, nor did he even really do it to the effect.

fas‧cism/ˈfæʃ
ɪz
əm/
Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fash-iz-uh
m
]
Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1.(sometimes initial capital letter
) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
4,600
100
63
You're religious views and beliefs are only supported as long as they do not contravene any laws.

You wish to wear a veil, no law that says you can't. But if you are getting a drivers lisence photo either take it off or don't drive.

Being a religious belief does not give it any kind of legitimacy. A religion is your personal philosophy, and within the confines of liberty (ie, it doesn't impose on others).

Should you choose to wear a viel you should be allowed to wear it equally no matter your own personal reasons, be it because you think its fashionable or its a religious requirement.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
7,267
118
63
46
Newfoundland!
I don't claim to be an expert on muslim law but as far as i can tell, asking a muslim woman to remove her head-coverings is similar to asking a european woman to get her tits out. It's just not appropriate.

Mr Straw should really have known that.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
I don't see the big deal. He only asks them to remove their veil, he isn't ripping it off their faces. He doesn't say he refuses to speak with them if they don't.

Hernanntrude, I do get what you're saying. But, these women have chosen to live in a society where showing your face is considered normal, so I don't think it's as inappropriate as you do. If I move to a country where women whip their tits out, I can't be too shocked when someone assumes I'll do it too (never going to happen btw!).
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
71
Saint John, N.B.
First of all, Straw defended the right of Muslim women to wear the veil, he simply said he is more comfortable talking to someone when he can see their face, a completely normal reaction, IMHO.

OH, the Fascist!

Don't be ridiculous.

Personally (and this will get me in trouble) I think that if you are wearing the full Burka......YOU DON'T BELONG IN THE WEST!!!!!!!

Period.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
71
Saint John, N.B.
Oh yeah.

And those Christian Taliban you speak of in the USA?

Funny, I haven't seen them flying any planes into buildings.

When was the last time they stoned an adulterer?

For that matter, are their girls genitally mutilated?

How about hanged for being in public unescorted?

Whipped for eating ice cream "provocatively"?

NOT EVEN CLOSE!