British inventions that foreigners have taken credit for.

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
46,521
1,377
113
RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit for

Without counting the images of leaves and petals taken by British photographers in the first decade of the 1800s, which can lay claim to being the world's earliest photographs, this is the earliest photograph ever taken -


This photo of a boy leading a horse was taken in 1825. Yep - 1825.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
46,521
1,377
113
Re: RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit

EagleSmack said:
1I went and checked into these people. Not one flew in a manned powered plane.

hmmmmm........


Or maybe it was Bill Frost a Welsh carpenter who patented the aeroplane in 1894 and took to the skies in a powered flying machine the following year (8 years before the Wright brothers)
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
46,521
1,377
113
RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit for

According to this article, the first person to fly was Englishman Sir Hiram Stevens Maxim, (who is more famous for his machine gun). He flew in 1894 - around 9 years before the Wright brothers.

So, if you think about it, around 4 or 5 people (all British) may have flown BEFORE the Wright Brothers -



2004 was the 110th Anniversary of Powered Flight!
But 2004 is the 100th anniversary of the Wright Brothers?
True, but the Wright brothers weren't the first people to do it!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When the Wright brothers telegraphed home after Kitty Hawk, the only bit of their telegram which was commented on by the local press was "Wright brothers home for Christmas". Why wouldn't the press be carrying "Wright brothers first to fly" banners if they had just made history? The answer is that they hadn't. Everyone knew that powered flight had already been achieved, so the important portion of the communique was that they would be home for Christmas.

The first person to fly a powered, heavier than air vehicle (aeroplane) was Sir Hiram Stevens Maxim, (who is more famous for his machine gun). On Tuesday 31st July 1894 at Baldwyn's Park (formerly the site of a mental hospital, now a housing estate) in the London Borough of Bexley, his flyer was launched for the first time and successfully flew.

Ten years before the Wright Brothers


The Maxim Flyer


The Maxin Flyer

The flyer had a 40 foot hexagonal "kite" centre section, which supported the pilot platform, on the front of which was mounted the engine. Front and back of the centre kite section were placed the elevators which were controlled in unison by an adjustment wheel mounted on the rear of the engine housing.

To each side of the centre section were placed wings, which Maxim termed 'aeroplanes' thus using the expression for the first time. The wings extended out at the level of the kite and the platform, thus creating a biplane with a total 104 foot wing span.

The most interesting thing about the flyer was that it was powered by steam, using a coiled pipe boiler heated by naptha. Although the coiled boiler was a mere 8 feet long, 6 feet high and 4 feet wide at the base, the use of piping in this manner provided 800 feet of heatable surface area, while the complete boiler weighed in at less than 1000lbs. The boiler could develop 362 h.p. and a pressure of 3201lbs.

The engine powered two 18 feet long proppeller blades which were mounted to the shaft by splines rather than the (until then) standard method of clamping the blade in an angle bracket, another innovation of Maxim's.


The twin props of the flyer

The Flight
Carrying THREE people, the flyer lifted from its base guiding track to a height of 9 inches where the wheels engaged a restraining rail. Held by the restraining rail, the flyer moved under its own lift above the ground for 1000 feet, after which one of the axle-trees buckled. The buckling axle-tree meant that only three of the wheels were in touch with the restraining rail, resulting in an uneven load which broke the restraining rail (9" thick Georgia pine). The flyer broke free and at a speed of 42mph it flew under the power of one screw, (the other having been damaged by the desintegrating restraining rail) for a further 15 seconds while Maxim shut off the engine.This free-flight was at a height of three feet above the rail.

Distance Calculations
Distance covered under the guiding rail: 1000 feet
Distance covered in free flight: 42mph = 61.6 feet per second for 15 seconds = 924 feet
Total distance during which the weight of the vehicle was supported by its own lift (i.e. in flight): 1924 feet.


Altitude Calculations

Height of lower track: 8 inches

Distance between lower track and restraining rail: 9 inches

Therefore height of restraining rail: 17 inches (altitude during restrained flight)

Thickness of restraining rail: 4 inches

Height of free flight above restraining rail: 3 feet (36 inches)

Total altitude from ground in free flight: 17" + 4" + 36" = 57" = 4 feet 9 inches

The restraining track was 1800 feet long and the flyer made a controlled descent of short duration and impacted into the soft ground with no skidding. The impact which buckled the platform, also resulted in a head injury to one of the three pilots.

The impact site was 246 feet further than the track's termination, therefore the Maxim flyer obtained lift approximately 122 feet along the track from its starting position.

That means that the Maxim flier moved forwards 2 feet as it descended from its stable (unrestrained) flight path. Consequently, the flyer flew for 922 feet in level free flight at a height of 57 inches.



The flyer after crash landing.

Was it Flight?
Heavier than Air flight is termed as "the ability of a vehicle to lift its own weight using its own power," The lifting of the flyer to engage the restraining rail nine inches higher shows without doubt that the vehicle was supporting its own weight and thus flying. Some people vulgarly describe the Maxim flyer as being nothing more than a 'Lift Test Rig'. This could not be further from the truth. Lift test rigs are generally stationary, with the air flow being blown over the wing area from an external source. A model in a wind tunnel is a 'Lift Test Rig'. The Maxim Flyer is an aeroplane. Even if the duration of the flight under the restraining rail is disputed as being 'Flight', the machine's breaking free and subsequent stable and level flight at three feet altitude for 924 feet, although not within Maxim's intentions is still 'flight'. As a consequence of this, it can not be denied that Sir Hiram Stevens Maxim was the first person to fly a heavier than air machine.

The Audience
The first flight was conducted in front of many spectators including personal friends invited by Sir Hiram, specifically the Prince of Wales, Rudyard Kipling, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle but most importantly, H G Wells who used Maxim and his flying machine as the basis for his short story "Arganauts of the Air" (1895), the inventor of the flying machine in this story is called 'Monson'. In addition, in 1897, Well's Science Fiction masterpiece "The War of the Worlds" depicts a Martian flying machine which bears uncanny resemblance to Maxim's flyer.

So what exactly should the Wright brothers be in the history books for?

The Wright brothers were the first people to activley CONTROL their flight. They were not only able to fly, but to turn the vehicle around and return to its point of origin, an amazing achievement. Unfortunately patriotic re-write history drum-bangers ignore this in preference to toppling Maxim from his rightful place with the higher prize of being the first. It is unfortunate that most of the world's history books today perpetuate this mis-information, which is in fact nothing more than proof that anything said loudly enough and often enough becomes gospel.

bondle.co.uk
------------------
Americans first to fly? No, it was the British.

However, even THIS flight may not have been the first. Englishman John Stringfellow may have flown as early as 1848.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit for

So was it Pilcher, Frost or Maxim? When you make up your minds, give us a shout.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
46,521
1,377
113
Re: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit for

I think not said:
So was it Pilcher, Frost or Maxim? When you make up your minds, give us a shout.

It doesn't matter which of those was first.

The fact is that all three flew before the Wright Brothers.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
Re: RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit

Blackleaf said:
Without counting the images of leaves and petals taken by British photographers in the first decade of the 1800s, which can lay claim to being the world's earliest photographs, this is the earliest photograph ever taken -


This photo of a boy leading a horse was taken in 1825. Yep - 1825.


When the early photographers took photos the subject had to stay completely still. The reason being was that the photographer had to uncover the lens that would expose a wet plate for a few seconds so the image would set. The days of action photography were years away.

Look at US Civil War photos. It was difficult to keep a horse still so parts of the horse, especially the tail was a big blur. That went for children and someone shifting their arm or legs.

So this photo is BULL.

Anything else you need us to debunk?
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit for

Interesting revisionist view of the Brits being the first to fly. As I read it the flight was a failure and it crashed. You even helpfully installed a picture of the Maxim Flyer after it crashed.

BRAVO!

You proved our point.

The Wright Bros. took off and flew and landed. That is true powered flight which is what these folks tried to do and failed. There are plenty of old motion films of people trying to get their contraptions off the ground.

The US did it.... Britain didn't.

Have a nice day.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
5,085
7
38
Victoria, B.C.
Re: RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit

Blackleaf said:
So, if you think about it, around 4 or 5 people (all British) may have flown BEFORE the Wright Brothers -

The Wright Bros were not the first to achieve flight, but they were the first to achieve powered controlled flight, which is, after all, what aviation is all about. There were several people who flew gliders before the Wright's first powered flight, including the Wrights themselves, but powered and controlled is the defining factor here.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit for

And people flew in balloons as well. So technically they were the first in flight.

You know what else... the more and more I look at the silly picture that you tried to convince everyone that it is the first photograph the more I have to laugh.

Were they even wearing Tricorn hats then?

Where is the background? Was there nothing behind the boy?

How did he get the horse to remain perfectly still in that position?
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
46,521
1,377
113
RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit for

People have to remember that the British virtually invented the modern world. Not only are 40 - 50% of all the world's major inventions since 1945 British inventions (only 25% are American and the rest is the rest of the world) but Britain had the Industrial Revolution meaning that Britain was the world's first industrialised and mechanised society. When we had steam-powered machines doing difficult jobs for us, the rest of the world was still doing them manually.

Britain was also the first urbanised country. When most Brits were living in towns and cities, most people in all the other countries in the world were still country bumpkins living in the countryside.

British inventions and discoveries -

the computer
the World Wide Web
trains and railways
plastic
stainless steel
the microwave oven
the lawnmower
the heart pacemaker
the jet engine
the aeroplane
the car
photography
the pocket calculator
the light bulb
the television
the pneumatic tyre
penicillin
the bicycle
the US Navy
the Chilean Navy
tarmac
vaccination
the postage stamp
antisceptics
artificial diamonds
reaping machine
latent heat
chemical bonds
gravity
evolution
the fax machine
the first cloned mammal
golf
football
rugby
darts
snooker
tennis
cricket
logarithms
marmalade
mackintosh
breech load rifle
quinine
radar
telegraph
thermos flask






According to a Guardian poll, here are the greatest British inventions of all time -

the bicycle - 62%
electricity - 20%
vaccination - 9%
light bulb - 3%
computer/World Wide Web - 7%


_________________
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: British inventions th

He's got a point....

the "world wide web" was created by a Lecturer at my university, a Sir Tim Berners-Lee, it's all to do with the words "Enquire About"

"the british invented the US Navy"?.....I'd like to see how you worked that one out....I would have thought it was in-spite of the british that that was invented
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
46,521
1,377
113
Re: RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit

EagleSmack said:
Blackleaf said:
Without counting the images of leaves and petals taken by British photographers in the first decade of the 1800s, which can lay claim to being the world's earliest photographs, this is the earliest photograph ever taken -


This photo of a boy leading a horse was taken in 1825. Yep - 1825.




When the early photographers took photos the subject had to stay completely still. The reason being was that the photographer had to uncover the lens that would expose a wet plate for a few seconds so the image would set. The days of action photography were years away.

Look at US Civil War photos. It was difficult to keep a horse still so parts of the horse, especially the tail was a big blur. That went for children and someone shifting their arm or legs.



Anything else you need us to debunk?

I'm afraid I need to disagree with you there. The photo was taken in 1825 -

Thursday 17th January 2002

World's earliest photo set to make £500,000 at auction

The world's earliest photograph is set to make more than £500,000 at auction.

The grainy image of a boy leading a horse was taken by French photographic pioneer Joseph Niepce in 1825.

The 6in by 4in photo is due to be auctioned by Sotheby's in Paris.

Philippe Garner of Sotheby's said: "This image and its accompanying correspondence oblige us to rewrite those crucial first stages of the history of photography."

It was previously thought he produced the first permanent photograph in 1826.

Niepce created his photo of an engraving using a technique called heliography, where light is used to project an image on to a photo-sensitive surface.

The photo lay undiscovered in a French collection until recently without its significance being realised.

http://www.optics.arizona.edu/nofziger/UNVR195a/Class9/WEPhoto.htm

But that's only the first photograph IN DETAIL. The very first photos were the sihouettes of leaves and flowers taken by two British scientists 20 - 25 years earlier.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
46,521
1,377
113
RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit for


This photo was taken in 1826 by Frenchman Niépce at family home in Burgundy, in the village of Saint-Loup-de-Varennes near Chalon-sur-Saône. Representationally the subject matter includes [from left to right]: the upper loft (or, so-called "pigeon-house") of the family home; a pear tree with a patch of sky showing through an opening in the branches; the slanting roof of the barn, with the long roof and low chimney of the bake house behind it; and, on the right, another wing of the family house. Details in the original image are very faint, due not to fading -- the heliographic process is a relatively permanent one -- but rather to Niepce's underexposure of the original plate.

http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/permanent/wfp/

But still, Niepce wasn't the first. The first was probably Josiah Wedgewood, cousin of Darwin. The 1825/26 photos are just those of proper detail.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
46,521
1,377
113
Re: RE: British inventions th

Daz_Hockey said:
He's got a point....

the "world wide web" was created by a Lecturer at my university, a Sir Tim Berners-Lee, it's all to do with the words "Enquire About"

"the british invented the US Navy"?.....I'd like to see how you worked that one out....I would have thought it was in-spite of the british that that was invented


The Scotsman John Paul Jones invented the US Navy. He was born in Dumfriesshire in 1747.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit

Haggis McBagpipe said:
Blackleaf said:
So, if you think about it, around 4 or 5 people (all British) may have flown BEFORE the Wright Brothers -

The Wright Bros were not the first to achieve flight, but they were the first to achieve powered controlled flight, which is, after all, what aviation is all about. There were several people who flew gliders before the Wright's first powered flight, including the Wrights themselves, but powered and controlled is the defining factor here.

Haggis is correct, the key words here being powered AND controlled. The Wright Bros. developed their airplane in stages, first the had to achieve flight (as in gliding), then they focused on power and finally their biggest obstacle was control.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: British inventions th

Blackleaf said:
The Scotsman John Paul Jones invented the US Navy. He was born in Dumfriesshire in 1747.

John Jones was a naval hero dude, he didn't invent the navy, how can anyone "invent" a navy when there have been navies for thousands of years. :roll:
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: British inventions th

I just asked my scottish mate about that John Paul Jones, he was quite shocking...he's usually reserved:

"the bastrd who commanded the Bonhomme Richard"

I suggested that come on, he was scottish, here's his reply:

"he was a traitor more like hehe"

I suppose you could say the same about a great many ppl...Thomas Paine for one
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: British inventions that foreigners have taken credit for

Well he was a traitor from a British point of view, we've been down this road before.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: British inventions th

from the English point of view yes....it becomes more complicated than that you see, a lot of scottish, welsh or Irish nationals would tend to have a differing view, of which I would expect my friend (who proffesses his scottishness al the time) to be at least a little symperthetic....


nah he wasnt lol