Britain overtakes France to become fifth largest economy

MHz

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Out performing is the proper word alright.

Trust the UK to find some way to show they have economic growth.

Refreshing News: Britain has surpassed France as the world's 5th largest economy since it included the amount Britains spend on prostitutes and illegal drugs.
Britain has surpassed France as the world's 5th largest economy since it included the amount Britains spend on prostitutes and illegal drugs.



Normally we wouldn't give much thought to the fact that Britain has surpassed France as the world's fifth-largest economy. But this story caught our attention: It was theway in which Britain snagged the higher spot.
The amount that Britains spend on prostitutes and illegal drugs has boosted the country in the rankings, according to the independent forecasting group, the Centre for Economics and Business Research. As a result of the new calculations — it is the first year the U.K. has included the figures — Britain's GDP rose to $2.82 trillion in 2014, up from $2.53 trillion the previous year.
France currently does not include the economic benefits of sex work and drug dealing in its calculations. If it did, it might have held on to its coveted 5th place standing, the Centre's report noted.
 

Blackleaf

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France is still hosing you on GDP based on PPP valuation.

That won't be the case this time next year. Commonsense, and simple maths, shows that.

France is to grow just 0.3% this year and just 0.8% in 2015.

Britain is to grow 3.2% in 2014 - faster than the rest of the G7 - and 2.5% in 2015.

The British economy will grow faster in just one of those years that the French economy will grow in both years put together. By the end of 2015, British GDP will be comfortably ahead of French GDP in terms of GDP and GDP PPP.

The German economy is to grow 1.2% in 2014 and 1.3% in 2015. So in both of those years the British economy will continue to fairly substantially close the gap with the German economy.
 
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petros

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That won't be the case this time next year. Commonsense, and simple maths, shows that.

France is to grow just 0.3% this year and just 0.8% in 2015.

Britain is to grow 3.2% in 2014 - faster than the rest of the G7 - and 2.5% in 2015.

The British economy will grow faster in just one of those years that the French economy will grow in both years put together. By the end of 2015, British GDP will be comfortably ahead of French GDP in terms of GDP and GDP PPP.

The German economy is to grow 1.2% in 2014 and 1.3% in 2015. So in both of those years the British economy will continue to fairly substantially close the gap with the German economy.

Sunshine, whoever has the least inflation comes out on top. PPP is a far tougher but to crack than GDP.
 

Blackleaf

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Sunshine, whoever has the least inflation comes out on top. PPP is a far tougher but to crack than GDP.


You have to remember that whatever economic figures you've been looking at will be out of date now, my lovely.

Britain's GDP PPP will likely have already overtaken France's. It was just 0.94% behind France's earlier this year. France will almost certainly have been surpassed on that measure, too. If not, it will certainly surpass France by the end of 2015.
 

Blackleaf

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Britain could become the world’s fourth largest economy within decades

In 20 years' time, the chances are that the UK will still be a large economy and a major force in world affairs



Rail passengers press to get into Guangzhou station. Like China, the economic standing of Britain - which is well on its way to overtaking Germany as Europe's most populous nation - will be affected by population size
Photo: Reuters/Joe Tan



By Roger Bootle, managing director of Capital Economics
04 May 2014
The Telegraph
885 Comments

The UK is growing at about the fastest rate of any economy in the G7. Later this year the UK will probably overtake France and Brazil, and in PPP terms it could soon overtake Russia.

Many reputable judges believe that within a few decades the UK will have overtaken Germany as the country with the largest population in Europe. If we manage our affairs well and the UK’s income per head at least stays level with Germany’s, then this would imply that we would have the largest economy in Europe.


The key message is that the UK is not set to plummet down the rankings. I fully expect that during my children’s lifetime it will become the largest economy in Europe and remain in the world’s biggest 10 economies.


Economic powerhouse: With the demographic future of the UK looking much brighter than that of its nearest European competitors, Britain could become Europe's largest economy, and the world's fourth-largest, within decades


Last week came news that, later this year, China is likely to overtake the US as the world’s largest economy. There should not be any surprise in this – except that it is happening so quickly.

In fact, China will only pass the US on a particular measure of GDP that employs an artificial exchange rate called purchasing power parity (PPP). If you simply valued the two countries’ GDPs at market exchange rates, the US would stay in front of China for many years to come.

That said, arcane though it is, in many ways the PPP measure gives a more meaningful picture. Although the Chinese authorities are coy about admitting it, in this respect, China really is on course soon to become the world’s largest economy.

Arithmetically, this is the result of China recently growing faster than the US. And that is largely because of China being so far behind in development that it has greater scope for fast growth.

But the fact that such a country can be top dog is a reflection of China’s population being more than four times the size of America’s. For a very long time after China has overtaken the US, American people will still, on average, be incomparably richer than their Chinese counterparts.

There is another important size issue closer to home which involves some of the same considerations. You might find the conclusions somewhat surprising. For most of my life the UK has been slipping down the rankings of countries rated by size of GDP.

This does not mean that British people have been becoming worse off. Quite the opposite. But the rate of improvement has been slower than in many other countries. And the result is that the country has become less significant in economic terms.

Mind you, you can readily over-do the declinism. Many people do not realise that on the market exchange rate measure, the UK is still the world’s seventh largest economy, larger than India and Russia. On the PPP measure it is eighth.

Until recently, the widespread view was that, although this ranking might be surprisingly high, it was bound to slip inexorably over the next couple of decades.

In fact, the opposite may be true. The UK is growing at about the fastest rate of any economy in the G7. Later this year the UK will probably overtake France and Brazil, and in PPP terms it could soon overtake Russia.

This would put it in fifth according to market exchange rates and sixth on a PPP basis. Now, there is an event in September which could radically change all this.

If Scotland votes for independence, the UK will immediately lose about 10pc of GDP and, accordingly, slip down the rankings quite a way. None of this would imply that people in the rest of the UK would be any worse off – at least not directly. Indeed, they may even be better off. But it would reduce the UK’s weight in the world.

That aside, in the decades ahead the UK’s ranking will be dominated, not just by matters of relative economic success, but also by demographics. Because of immigration and a relatively high birth rate, the UK population is set to expand materially.

Now before the serried ranks of “Disgusteds from Tunbridge Wells” inundate me with abuse, let me make it clear that I am not saying that this is necessarily good. But what I am saying is that, if it happens, it will have major consequences that we need to take cognisance of.

Other things equal, it would increase the size of the UK’s GDP. Again this does not necessarily imply a rise in per capita income relative to what would have happened anyway. Income could be increased, decreased or just left the same.

But it does imply a larger economy. Many reputable judges believe that within a few decades the UK will have overtaken Germany as the country with the largest population in Europe. If we manage our affairs well and the UK’s income per head at least stays level with Germany’s, then this would imply that we would have the largest economy in Europe.

Where we would rank in the world, of course, would depend upon how other countries fared.

It is inconceivable that America and China would not occupy the top two slots, whichever was in pole position. And Japan would be bound to be number three.

But thereafter there would be a good deal of uncertainty. The current fourth slot is occupied by Germany. If the UK overtook Germany then it is not inconceivable that we would be in the number four position.

For that to be true, though, the UK would have to continue to outgrow the countries that are currently snapping at its heels, and that may be difficult – although not impossible.

The key message is that the UK is not set to plummet down the rankings. I fully expect that during my children’s lifetime it will become the largest economy in Europe and remain in the world’s biggest 10 economies.

This should have a major impact on various aspects of public policy. Take our role in Europe, for instance. Could we contemplate an independent future outside the European Union? A small and declining nation would find this more difficult than a large and growing one that is Europe’s largest economy.

Should the UK continue to have a major role in global affairs, including retaining its permanent seat on the UN Security Council? And, linked to this, should the UK remain a major military power?

Our military planners and their political overseers seem to think that the next couple of decades are bound to be a continuation of the last couple, with persistent relative economic decline and therefore persistent decline in the affordability of, and the need for, strong defence forces.

Sometimes I think that the people who decide our defence strategy do not talk to the people who think about population trends. They need to. In 20 years' time, the chances are that the UK will still be a large economy and a major force in world affairs.


Roger Bootle: Britain could become the world’s fourth largest economy within decades - Telegraph
 
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Blackleaf

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France needs more hookers and blow.


It needs to undertake the economic policies that Thatcher undertook with Britain in the 1980s, when she rescued Britain from the economic malaise caused by socialism in the 1970s. Otherwise, it will continue its decline into a second-rate power.

The UK (with the exception of Scotland) shook off socialism under Thatcher. France, however, is the most socialist country in Europe.
 

Dixie Cup

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I'm not as optimistic as this report is. The UK will have its share of difficulties in the next 5 to 10 years with their immigration policies driving these difficulties to the forefront.


I wait with bated breath for the politicians of that country to recognize and address the issues regarding immigration - who is immigrating and why - before its too late and also hope that the British themselves recognize that, these difficulties will not go away by burying the head in the sand. They are real and must be addressed. The economy will be affected by whatever happens.


I'm just sayin.....


MHO
 

Blackleaf

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You say that as if it's a bad thing. Brittain declined from THE world power to a second-rate power and the world didn't miss a beat.


Britain is now the world's fifth-largest economy having just overtaken France.

London is the world's financial capital.

Britain is one of just five permanent members of the UN Security Council.

It is the EU's biggest military power.

The Royal Navy is one of just two true Blue Water navies.

Britain's defence spending is the fourth-highest in the world.

Apart from the US, Britain is the only country which can project its armed forces to anywhere in the world within 24 hours.

Apart from being a great power economically and militarily, Britain is also a cultural superpower. When it comes to the global impact that British music,film, television, fashion etc have, Britain ranks second behind the US - although on that score, some say it surpasses even the US.

In fact, at the start of 2014 Britain was named the world's second-most powerful country according to research conducted by the EuropeanGeostrategy.org website.

The research found that, whilst the US is the only country which can be classed as a super power, Britain is the ONLY country which can be classed as a Global Power, the second tier behind Super Power. A global power is defined as “a country lacking the heft or comprehensive attributes of a superpower, but still with a wide international footprint and means to reach most geopolitical theatres, particularly the Middle East, South-East Asia, East Asia, Africa and South America”.

The researchers analysed cultural pull, diplomatic influence, economic strength and military reach. On this analysis, Britain ranks second behind the US.

EuropeanGeostrategy.org wrote alongside its analysis: “Many existing power indicators fall into the trap of economic or demographic determinism: we have not selected Gross National Income or population size as the most important attributes of national power – after all, throughout much of history, economic output and population size have not been the determining factors of international influence.”




Rule Britannia! Britain still second strongest, 'global power' in the world, says study -
 

Blackleaf

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I'm not as optimistic as this report is. The UK will have its share of difficulties in the next 5 to 10 years with their immigration policies driving these difficulties to the forefront.

We've heard all this scaremongering before.

Back in 2001 the swivel-eyed Europhiles were saying that Britain's economy would suffer if it decided not to join the new euro currency when it is introduced on 1st January 2002.

We were told that Britain's economy would struggle whilst those countries who adopted the euro would power ahead. We were even told that Paris and Frankfurt would surpass London as financial centres.

All these things, and more, were told to us by those who wanted Britain to adopt the euro. However, the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown, decided that Britain will not join the euro, despite his boss, Tony Blair, and others in the Labour Party trying to pressurise him into making Britain join the currency.

As it turned out, Brown and the anti-euro lot were right and the pro-EU lot were wrong. Rather than the eurozone powering ahead whilst Britain struggles, the opposite is true. The euro turned out to be an unmitigated disaster, proving that Britain was right to stay out of it. The eurozone is now the economic Sick Man of the World whilst Britain booms, surpassing France economically. Germany's economy has been struggling so much as a result of the euro that it could well pull out of the currency in 2015 and take back the Deutschmark.

And far from London being overtaken by Paris and Frankfurt as a global financial centre, all that happened was that London just pulled even further ahead of those two cities, going on to surpass New York to once again reclaim its crown as the world's financial centre.

So I will take your "forecast" that the UK "will have its share of difficulties in the next 5 to 10 years" with a huge pinch of salt.

Scandinavians but we'll keep reality out of this for your sake. You are confused enough as it is.


No, France.

If you think that the Scandinavian countries are more socialist than a country which is so socialist its people are leaving in despair and fleeing to Britain, making London France's sixth-biggest city, then you really need your brain checking.
 

lone wolf

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The New Kids on the Block will be around forever. The sun will never set on the British Empire. Boasts are such brave things. Reality has a monkey wrench waiting for the works