Bombardier at the Trough

[Wetcoast40]

Jack:
Notice how Bombardier never suggested it had to be competitively operated, only competitively subsidized.
I also think the McGinty government was blackmailed into their "investment". GM is the worst run of the big three Auto companies but constantly has its hand out for freebies. I don't see Toyota standing at the trough every year looking for a hand-out.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Notice how Bombardier never suggested it had to be competitively operated, only competitively subsidized.

That is the reality of that industry though. Let's face it, there isn't a lot of profitability in making airplanes. The overhead is huge, the rules are stringent, and the returns are minimal and dependent on so many factors it makes your head spin.

I also think the McGinty government was blackmailed into their "investment". GM is the worst run of the big three Auto companies but constantly has its hand out for freebies.

They were very likely pressured into it. I don't think it was really a bad move though. I know I'm going to get screamed at for this, but $435 million is really pocket change when it comes to governmental and corporate budgets. Until we get out of NAFTA it is going to take this kind of deal to keep jobs in Canada though. If we want R&D done here we'll have to pay for it. If we want to meet Kyoto we can't expect the work to be done in the US...they didn't sign up.

I don't like corporate welfare, but as long as we enter into trade deals where foreign governments make the rules there isn't much we can do but play the game.

 

[jackd]

I don't like corporate welfare, but as long as we enter into trade deals where foreign governments make the rules there isn't much we can do but play the game.

I totally agree.
If you remember years ago, France, Britain, Germany and Spain teamed-up to form Airbus. It was a risky business for the government to get into this low-margin business, but eventually Airbus became profitable and eventually got into aerospace, defense end of the business.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bombardier at the Tro

But notice that Airbus is still basically a government-run operation.

I mentioned Brazil before...so here's a question. What if we opened a three-way crown corporation with Brazil and Ireland? We're in a subsidy war with them anyway, each accusing the other of unfair trade practices and nobody wrong in making that accusation. Why not merge into a three-government venture and work together? It would have to be a deal between governments though, Jay...it won't work any other way.

 

[Wetcoast40]

Logically, that would be a solid proposal. But inevitably, egos get in the way. Embraer and Bombardier are sworn enemies. Both have infrastructure and both would want to be the lead fabricator. Shorts in Ireland have capacity as well. Hard to envision a triumvirate of competitors suddenly recognizing the common ground of mutual cooperation. However, anything is possible. The main question might be "Who carries the ball?" I guess the one thing they all have in common is that they're all Catholic. Maybe the Pope will intervene.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bombardier at the Tro

My point was tht it would have to be a government initiave and largely government-controlled though, Wetcoast. Private companies buy each other other out, they do not cooperate. I'm wondering how Jay feels about that, since he's so anti-government.

 

[Jay]

But notice that Airbus is still basically a government-run operation.

I mentioned Brazil before...so here's a question. What if we opened a three-way crown corporation with Brazil and Ireland? We're in a subsidy war with them anyway, each accusing the other of unfair trade practices and nobody wrong in making that accusation. Why not merge into a three-government venture and work together? It would have to be a deal between governments though, Jay...it won't work any other way.

I love those kind of trip ups. :wink:

How does that song go? Oh yes
" you were always on my mind....you were always on my mind"


http://www.hitlist.com/lyrics/lyricresult.php?id=9427


Seriously though, there is far to much government money going to prop up to many industries. If it is to compete with foreign government money, then so much for free trade. We will have to reverse the whole thing.

 

[Wetcoast40]

Rev:
Governments are even more parochial than corporations. They seek only to be re-elected. I'd have to rate the idea of their co-operation as less than marginal. Given the right kind of financial incentive, however, businesses might respond.
Anyhow, it's a moot point and should be filed under 'New World Corporate Fantasies'.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Governments are even more parochial than corporations. They seek only to be re-elected. I'd have to rate the idea of their co-operation as less than marginal.

Trade agreements are international-level treaties though. As such they can be governed by an outside body or a multilateral panel. Once the original agreement was in place they would have a mechanism for dealing with disputes. Because all partners would be equal, its decision could not easily ignored the way the US ignores both NAFTA and the WTO.

Given the right kind of financial incentive, however, businesses might respond.

Not on their own though, they never do.

Jay: I noticed that you refused to answer my question.

 

[no1important]

RE: Bombardier at the Tro

What if we opened a three-way crown corporation with Brazil and Ireland?

Thats a good idea, actually Rev that is a real good idea. It would be a win-win for everyone.

 

[Jay]

I see, I missed your question, because we were posting at the same time. Fun none the less. It wasn't a refusal; try not to assume the worst all the time.

Thanks for including me BTW.

How do I feel about it? I feel that unless there is a serious need to be filled, the government should stay out of business. That isn’t to say they shouldn’t write laws that effect business, just they shouldn’t open up car factories. (Didn’t the government of NFLD try getting in the car business…what happened there?)

 

[EagleSmack]

**EDITED Off topic trolling**

 

[Reverend Blair]

I see, I missed your question, because we were posting at the same time.

I asked the original question at 11:30.

How do I feel about it? I feel that unless there is a serious need to be filled, the government should stay out of business. That isn’t to say they shouldn’t write laws that effect business, just they shouldn’t open up car factories. (Didn’t the government of NFLD try getting in the car business…what happened there?)

And still...No real answer.

 

[Wetcoast40]

Can you say 'Bricklin'? and it was New Brunswick. Another classic example of a fast talker (Malcolm Bricklin) and a slow wit (Richard Hatfield) combining for a big mess.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bombardier at the Tro

When I was a kid I knew somebody who won a Bricklin.

When I was an even younger kid and Bricklin had just gone belly-up we went and saw a few of the cars in some little town outside of Ottawa. They were being auctioned off.

It was sweet automobile.

 

[Jay]

"And still...No real answer."

Perhaps you should answer it yourself, and then you will have the "real" answer you were looking for.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bombardier at the Tro

My answer is that we should give it a shot. What's yours?

 

[Wetcoast40]

Can anyone remember the question?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Bombardier at the Tro

Whether we should get together with Brazil and Ireland and form a three-way Crown Corporation to handle our aerospace industries.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Bombardier at the Trough

Can anyone remember the question?