black holes may be evolving

Cliffy

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:roll: :lol: .. you can start by reading Humanae Vitae, Cliffy.. the encyclical on human sexuality..
I'm talking about political control, not birth control. The church, above everything else is a political organization, the remnants of the Roman Empire with far greater economic and political power than the Caesars could possibly have imagined, far greater than any other empire the planet has known in what we call history. I bow to no one.
 

Dexter Sinister

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That's completely untrue.
Really? You mean your computer's microelectronics don't depend on quantum theory for devices like tunnel diodes, and the global positioning system doesn't depend on relativistic corrections to its clocks to maintain synchronization? Lot of physicists and engineers would be very surprised to learn that. Maybe you could explain it to them, it'd make those systems a lot simpler to design.
 

coldstream

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Really? You mean your computer's microelectronics don't depend on quantum theory for devices like tunnel diodes, and the global positioning system doesn't depend on relativistic corrections to its clocks to maintain synchronization? Lot of physicists and engineers would be very surprised to learn that. Maybe you could explain it to them, it'd make those systems a lot simpler to design.

Quantum Mechanics undoes fundamental empirical observation and logical structure.. such as the continuity and integrity of time and space. It proved useful in a limited way as a predictive methodology.. more through accident than any understanding of design. Those computers were developed by someone testing the physical characteristics of an electrical current passing over transistors and wires.. and applying a logical and practical structure to them. I'm pretty sure none of them went back to their QM formula book.. which would have been a waste of time.

I'm talking about political control, not birth control. The church, above everything else is a political organization, the remnants of the Roman Empire with far greater economic and political power than the Caesars could possibly have imagined, far greater than any other empire the planet has known in what we call history. I bow to no one.

You're giving us way too much credit Cliffy. As is obvious now, most of the world just ignores the RCC.. much to its (the world's) peril.
 
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Dexter Sinister

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So you think quantum mechanics and general relativity are just calculating tricks that happen to give correct answers sometimes, and quantum devices like tunnel diodes and field effect transistors were originally built with no understanding of the basic physics of what was going on inside them?

... most of the world just ignores the RCC.. much to its (the world's) peril.
Doesn't seem to me that things were better when the RCC was in charge. Crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings...
 

L Gilbert

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The whole construct of Black Holes is based on the same type of exotic mathematics that gave us quantum mechanics, superstrings, .. with 11 dimensions, the expanding universe.. and other cosmological phenomenon.. that have two things in common.. they are utterly unprovable by empirical or experimental methods.. and they are totally without utility.

They rely exclusively on abstract formulas that produce only attributed results .. assessed by a closed cult, an aesthetic conceit, by a priestly class of academics. Just like the Big Bang.. the theory behind them seems to be collapsing as even their value as providing some localized predictive reliability is coming under question.

Spengler warned that science in late stage civilization would devolve into number forms.. it would abandon it proofs and technological utilities and project boundless belief systems.
lmao Sorry for laughing, but sometimes I find a lack of understanding of pretty basic physics theory quite funny, and I mean "theory" in the scientific sense, and even the concept of scientific theory seems to be a bit foreign to you. And math is simply science's language that's able to describe phenomena in the simplest way.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
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So you think quantum mechanics and general relativity are just calculating tricks that happen to give correct answers sometimes, and quantum devices like tunnel diodes and field effect transistors were originally built with no understanding of the basic physics of what was going on inside them?

Yup.. the basic understanding of those physics came from the physical properties of electricity developed by the pioneers of electricity and communication (Faraday, Bell, Edison, Tesla etc.).. by hypothesis and experiment.. The mathematical speculation of GR and QM played almost no part.


Doesn't seem to me that things were better when the RCC was in charge. Crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings...
One of the few things i agree with in the documents of Vatican 2.. is its statement that the Church of Christ subsists within the Roman Catholic Church. There is a lot of detritus that has attached itself to the institution of the Church that has nothing to do with its real character or message.. including inquisitions, crusades, child abuse.. and a lot of other things. But i accept there is a strand of unexpurgated Truth within all that. The trick is in separating the wheat from the chaff.
 
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Cliffy

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The trick is separating the wheat from the chaff.
There would be little o no substance left if we were to do that, as has been dramatically indicated by your writings anyway. The church's former power depended on inquisitions, crusades, which hunts and intimidation of the people into submission to that power. Anybody who thinks that is what Jesus had in mind would have to have a very twisted mind.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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lmao Sorry for laughing, but sometimes I find a lack of understanding of pretty basic physics theory quite funny, and I mean "theory" in the scientific sense, and even the concept of scientific theory seems to be a bit foreign to you. And math is simply science's language that's able to describe phenomena in the simplest way.

You managed to totally miss the sense of my post LG. My problem is with the method and reliability of technological innovation.. as opposed to a cult of pseudo theology (masquerading as mathematical 'theory') that has hijacked 'science'.. in academia anyway.
 

Dexter Sinister

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GR and QM are far more than merely mathematical speculation, they provide explanations for almost everything we know about physical reality from subatomic particles to the large scale structure of the observable universe, and their predictions have been verified to phenomenal accuracy, to one part in billions in some cases. QM, for instance, correctly predicts the electron's magnetic moment to one part in ten billion, and completely explains the periodic table of the elements. They are two of the three most successful, widest ranging, and best attested scientific theories we have, they're useful theories with real world applications. The third is the neo-Darwinian synthesis of evolution.

The trick is in separating the wheat from the chaff.
Any clue why it took an institution that claims to know the truth about 1700 years to figure out which is which?
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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GR and QM are far more than merely mathematical speculation, they provide explanations for almost everything we know about physical reality from subatomic particles to the large scale structure of the observable universe, and their predictions have been verified to phenomenal accuracy, to one part in billions in some cases. QM, for instance, correctly predicts the electron's magnetic moment to one part in ten billion. They are two of the three most successful, widest ranging, and best attested scientific theories we have, they're useful theories with real world applications. The third is the neo-Darwinian synthesis of evolution.

:roll: don't get me going on Darwin. But there is a direct historical link (an evolution if you like) from the imposition of some kind contrived synthetic logic by way of a purpose-selected set of 'facts'.. in an utterly closed and artificial system.. between Darwinism, GR, QM and Superstrings.


Wheat from Chaff by the away refers to a quote by John the Baptist is Mathew 3:12.. so its much more original, and had come to Church's attention much prior to 1700.


His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the granary, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.
 
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Dexter Sinister

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You think like a Jesuit. That's not a compliment, it's a characterization of your casuistry and sophistry. I'd wager you understand no more of Darwinism and its implications than you do of QM and GR, but you can sure produce what sounds like a sophisticated and knowledgeable line of patter. Except that you're quite wrong.
 

L Gilbert

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From Randi'sRentaSkeptic.org, give me a break! Still it's interesting reading. I don't often read fiction anymore but it might out me to sleep.

Einstein Was Wrong | Libertarian News
When I clicked on the link, I saw a message saying "<link> "Oops! Google Chrome could not find fascistsoup.com" but I did manage to squeeze the Libertarian News article out anyway.


This paper is being continually updated with revisions and new findings.

In each of the four experiments, which were conducted in fall 2005 and spring 2006, ideological subgroups failed to update their beliefs when presented with corrective information that runs counter to their predispositions. Indeed, in several cases, we find that corrections actually strengthened misperceptions among the most strongly committed subjects.
- When Corrections Fail: The persistence of political misperceptions
When I clicked on the link, I saw a message saying "<link> does not correspond to any file that is currently available on www-personal.umich.edu. Please double-check the URL or try the search box below."

Introduction

It is often claimed that Einstein’s theories of relativity have withstood every test thrown at them. This article attempts to challenge that claim by presenting a list of predictive failures, falsifying observations, and alternative explanations that better agree with the general rule of Occam’s razor. In science, it is generally accepted that the theory with the least amount of hypothetical postulates is superior to one with more. It was primarily on this basis that Einstein’s version of relativity won out over Lorentz’s, as Einstein was able to demonstrate a way to calculate relativistic mechanics without the need for an aether. However, as time has progressed, the amount of hypothetical entities required by Einstein’s theories has grown exponentially.
Ah, Michael Suede himself seems to take a few things for granted and also makes a fair whack of assumptions when he accuses Einstein of the same things.
As Einstein himself warned, GR and SR do not describe everything in all circumstances. So detractors tend to forget that warning and keep coming up with special circumstances to "prove" the theories wrong.

And then: Max Planck Institute for the History of Science

You managed to totally miss the sense of my post LG. My problem is with the method and reliability of technological innovation.. as opposed to a cult of pseudo theology (masquerading as mathematical 'theory') that has hijacked 'science'.. in academia anyway.
QM deals with the traits of the smallest parts of the universe. Without anything to describe these traits, people who design and construct the parts of computers wouldn't have a clue where to start. The math involved in QM: Mathematics Basic for Quantum Mechanics = "pseudo theology"? Like I said, comical.

heheh http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~ianb/history/

And looking down your nose at Darwinism is equally comical. Darwin wasn't correct about everything but the underlying theory of evolution is a lot better and describes in detail a lot more than your idiotic creationism.
 
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Dexter Sinister

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and what about Darwin?
You can find his mistaken understanding of it expressed in a thread from about a year ago in the American politics forum, about Tennessee enacting a law permitting equal time in the classroom for creationist views. If you're really interested... I'd post the link, but this crummy Chrome version on Android makes that somewhat less than easy.

Or wait a couple of hours, I should be back at my desktop with a browser that works the way I want it to.
 
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coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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Good grief.. i can't remember that.. what are you Dexter.. a member of some sinister surveillance agency.. with files on people of suspect political leanings (against political correctness).

As for Darwinism.. on top of the previous comments i made on being a use of synthetic logic, based on selected evidence.. and within a completely closed philosophical system.. look at what its 'fruits' have been . It could be linked to the whole experiment of eugenics and fascism. It could further be argued that it is the intellectual model for both Communism.. in Marx's Capital.. and Free Market Capitalism.. all of which espouse forms of survival of the fittest.. and historical determinism. And all have been social and economic disasters. What technologies have been developed from it.. none.. just political movements.

In could be argued that radical environmentalism and depopulation have their roots in Darwinism, and its view of man as just another species, without divine destiny and now one in conflict with the best interests of the planet. GT, QM, superstrings.. and AGW and other futile and contrived pseudo scienfic theories.. have all borrowed from its methodology. It is certainly at the centre of the secular humanism that has imposed a culture of deep pessimism and spiritual lethargy on the West. There were no doubt, other players in the development of all those.. but Darwin was one of of its intellectual fathers..
 
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Dexter Sinister

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Evolution is about biology. More specifically it's a scientifically very good and very useful explanation for the observed complexity and diversity of life. That's *all* it is. It has no moral or ethical content, and people who find in it justification, or blame, for things like eugenics, fascism, communism, capitalism, atheism, whatever, just demonstrate their failure to understand and apply it correctly. I can certainly see how it might be a little corrosive to religious belief, it doesn't seem to leave the deity with much to do, but that's no bad thing in my view.
 
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coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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That's not true, evolution is a philosophy. It has NO resemblance to an authentic science. It posits a working theory in complete contravention to the observable state of the world in just that.. its diversity. The natural order is one of constant complexification and adaption. The model Darwin provides is of selective elimination and conformity.

If his theory was right the world should be getting ever LESS diverse as dominant species wiped out the less so, and an ultimate state of equilibrium imposed a state of evolutionary inertia. When i said it was a closed system.. i meant it has no explanation.. or even speculation.. as to ultimate origins or ends of this process. It then simply becomes a circular and reductive logic... of little utility.... except in validating political causes.
 
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Dexter Sinister

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I guess there's no need now to post the link I mentioned to gerryh, you've demonstrated quite clearly here the same misapprehensions you did a year ago. Obviously the corrections you got then made no impact on you. And no, I'm not a member of any sinister surveillance agency, I just have a retentive memory on issues that interest me and I know how to use a search engine.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Earths cataclysmic dynamic builds everything, as we will eventually find out , again. Darwins "gradualist evolution" is merely an imposition forced on the academic world by the Bankers.