By 10, it's already too late IMO. I don't see any point in making children learn esperanto as a starter language and I don't see any value in making them wait until they are 10 to learn a language they would find more useful. I started in French as soon as I started in elementary school. That made it easy. The older a child gets, the harder it is to learn languages.
Bilingual Nation
- Thread starter karrie
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By 10, it's already too late IMO. I don't see any point in making children learn esperanto as a starter language and I don't see any value in making them wait until they are 10 to learn a language they would find more useful. I started in French as soon as I started in elementary school. That made it easy. The older a child gets, the harder it is to learn languages.
I think Esperanto is to language what singing in monotone is to music. My son is fluent in French and has Japanese coming along nicely. He's into his twenties now and has no problem it seems, picking up new languages.
I like that it's a little flavour in the culture.
I like that it's a little flavour in the culture.
I heard this over and over for years now. Thing is when someone pulls a boner on the road I do look to see who is driving.Unfortunatly there is this factor living in a multicultral society that the chances are the person driving will not be of your race, hence some moron starts to decide that cause an Aisian cut him him off 3 times in the past week(please note I live in toronto)that Aisians are lousey drivers.The thing is the guy behind him is Aisian and 4 white guys today would not let him in their lane so he thinks whites are road hogs.
"Racial Profiling" cops got us all beat.
I just want my son to be trilingual: Chinese, English, and French.
BTW, how come I hear that whites migrate to other areas because it's too competitive in those schools in that area where there're too many Asian kids, at the same time, Asians keep moving into the area for their kids. I may be wrong. I just hear that from someone.
BTW, how come I hear that whites migrate to other areas because it's too competitive in those schools in that area where there're too many Asian kids, at the same time, Asians keep moving into the area for their kids. I may be wrong. I just hear that from someone.
If you have ever been in traffic in Beijing, you would realize that anybody who learned to drive in Beijing would be considered a lunatic here, but that's not because they're Asian, it's because of where/how they learned to drive.
Unfortunately, WMG isn't bright enough to understand that difference, and so he says moronic things, while he masturbates to Harper's speeches.
WMG tells it the way he see's it, condemning him as a moron who jerks off to Haper speeches is excessive. I live in Markham and I can tell you with a 100% certainty that asians are horrible drivers, they also eat whale blubber and consume tiger dicks as aphrodisiacs.
8O Oh really? But I'm an asian and I've never even SEEN any whale blubber or tiger dicks, neither have my family and friends. So what does it look like? I'm really curious. In China, it's been forbidden to trade tiger products since 20 years ago. So where do they get those dicks from? Pigs?
I never jump to the conclusion that bunnies are carnivores just because once I suddenly saw my bunny took a little piece of meat from my dog's bowl. And I wouldn't say that you swang in the trees just b/c your longlongtimeago ancestors were good at it. Opps, my longlonglonglonglonglonglongtimeago ancestors were good at it too.
I'm assuming that when you said Asian you are referring to Chinese? If so, then are you saying that everyone in Markham are horrible drivers?
Why, you don't believe in honesty? Do you read his crap? He has some sort of latent homosexual lust for Harper; he's been quoted as describing Harper's hot, sexy body.
I wasn't being serious, I think you would pick up on that up after reading the other stereotypes I included in the statement.
With that said, I forgot to include one other stereotype associated with asians, but I'll leave it out for now. :dink:
WMG has an unhealthy addiction for Steve-O I admit, I'm pretty sure it's not of the homo variety though.
I wasn't being serious, have a valium please. I was playing on stereotypes, ok? This cracker thanks you.
Ten Years ago I moved from a central China city to Shanghai, and now, Canada will be my next stop. Interestingly, I find that Shanghai and Canada are somehow similar in so many aspects. Well Shanghai is just a city and Canada is a country, you may say, but ok lets put it aside by now and just see what's the similarity.
They are both migration city/country. ------hundreds yrs ago, they were both just wildness, with a very few peasants/tribes. And then, people migrate(d) from all over the country/world, and they're becoming more and more prosperous.
They have similar population.-------of course Canada has a larger one, but still, quite similar.
People speak different languages.-----Well you'll say in Shanghai everybody speaks Chinese. But what is "Chinese"? The difference is not like British accent vs American accent. When I first came to Shanghai, I totally couldn not understand a single word of the local dialect(Shanghainese). BTW, I still can't understand Cantonese except for a few words. Although, yes, the writing of Chinese is almost the same(opps, yet still we have so-called simplified and traditional, I can read the latter but I can't write like most other young people from the mainland China).
Everybody knows the story of the Babel. The Emperor of Chin Dynasty in China, did an important thing: he unified the Chinese characters. This is one of the important reasons that the acient China became stronger and stronger.
And nowadays,the Chinese gov has been popularizing Mandarine since I was very young. And among all the cities, Shanghai has done the best. As long as you can speak Madarine, you'll find no problem in communicating with other people here(except for a few over 70 senior locals). Not like in Guangzhou, where most people speak Cantonese, sometimes even the bell captain or the receptionist of a company can't speak Madarine(not all of them, but really a big amount of them, and you can never see this happen in Shanghai). So Shanghai can be backed up by the whole resources from all over China, while Guangzhou mainly only has some connection with HongKong.
One unified language is good, and that would be the best choice only if you could do that.
But we all know that it's impossible to do that in Canada and we all know why.
Then, the second best is, just let all the people become bilingual(or even trilingual) so that you can lower the barrier and communicate with other people from all over the country freely.
They are both migration city/country. ------hundreds yrs ago, they were both just wildness, with a very few peasants/tribes. And then, people migrate(d) from all over the country/world, and they're becoming more and more prosperous.
They have similar population.-------of course Canada has a larger one, but still, quite similar.
People speak different languages.-----Well you'll say in Shanghai everybody speaks Chinese. But what is "Chinese"? The difference is not like British accent vs American accent. When I first came to Shanghai, I totally couldn not understand a single word of the local dialect(Shanghainese). BTW, I still can't understand Cantonese except for a few words. Although, yes, the writing of Chinese is almost the same(opps, yet still we have so-called simplified and traditional, I can read the latter but I can't write like most other young people from the mainland China).
Everybody knows the story of the Babel. The Emperor of Chin Dynasty in China, did an important thing: he unified the Chinese characters. This is one of the important reasons that the acient China became stronger and stronger.
And nowadays,the Chinese gov has been popularizing Mandarine since I was very young. And among all the cities, Shanghai has done the best. As long as you can speak Madarine, you'll find no problem in communicating with other people here(except for a few over 70 senior locals). Not like in Guangzhou, where most people speak Cantonese, sometimes even the bell captain or the receptionist of a company can't speak Madarine(not all of them, but really a big amount of them, and you can never see this happen in Shanghai). So Shanghai can be backed up by the whole resources from all over China, while Guangzhou mainly only has some connection with HongKong.
One unified language is good, and that would be the best choice only if you could do that.
But we all know that it's impossible to do that in Canada and we all know why.
Then, the second best is, just let all the people become bilingual(or even trilingual) so that you can lower the barrier and communicate with other people from all over the country freely.
I don't think a bilingual system(or even trilingual) is bad. it's just like an investment, when you're building up a Babel. Of course an investment costs money.
And the earlier you start this languag education, the better. Don't wait until the kids are in Grade 10 Grade 11. I started to learn English when I was in Junior high(equivalent to your Grade 7 or 8 I guess). And nowadays in China, kids start to learn English from primary school, or even preschool, like my 3 yo son. I believe that every kid has gift in language learning. As long as he/she's capable to learn the first language, he/ she's capable to a second, third. The younger, the better. It's so obvious, b/c I see that today's university students can speak way much better English than we do: they started at a younger age. And for my 3 yo son, learning English is just fun.
I've never learned French, and I don't know what exactly the education system is like in Canada, since i still live in Shanghai now. I just think if the gov want a bilingual system, they should just let the kids start it earlier. We all know that a non-English speaker kid from China can learn to speak fluent English in only a year, and the younger, the faster, but if it's an adult, maybe he/she can never achieve that. And I remeber my first English teacher, who's a good lady, but really, her English was horrible, because she studied Russian as a second language in middle school, and she started to learn English in university.
IMHO, Bilingual education, forcing French teaching, should begin from preschool, and stop in grade 10 or earlier,and then you decide yourself whether to learn more.
And the earlier you start this languag education, the better. Don't wait until the kids are in Grade 10 Grade 11. I started to learn English when I was in Junior high(equivalent to your Grade 7 or 8 I guess). And nowadays in China, kids start to learn English from primary school, or even preschool, like my 3 yo son. I believe that every kid has gift in language learning. As long as he/she's capable to learn the first language, he/ she's capable to a second, third. The younger, the better. It's so obvious, b/c I see that today's university students can speak way much better English than we do: they started at a younger age. And for my 3 yo son, learning English is just fun.
I've never learned French, and I don't know what exactly the education system is like in Canada, since i still live in Shanghai now. I just think if the gov want a bilingual system, they should just let the kids start it earlier. We all know that a non-English speaker kid from China can learn to speak fluent English in only a year, and the younger, the faster, but if it's an adult, maybe he/she can never achieve that. And I remeber my first English teacher, who's a good lady, but really, her English was horrible, because she studied Russian as a second language in middle school, and she started to learn English in university.
IMHO, Bilingual education, forcing French teaching, should begin from preschool, and stop in grade 10 or earlier,and then you decide yourself whether to learn more.
I understand your point, Tracy. But I think one minor detail that was missed is that English is useful to you ONLY if you learn it successfully. If you should spend ten years learning it only to give up in the end, that is wasted time and money that could have been used to learn something more useful. Again, Tracy, your ability to speak 2, 3, or even 50 languages still doesn't change the fact, statistically provable, that most learning of English, even if its the only foreing language they devote themselves to, will never learn it well enough for it to become of any great use to them. When I'd lived in La Malbaie quite a few years ago, even the local highschool teachers couldn't speak English, except for the English teachers, and even one of them couldn't speak it well!
The strategy you are proposing is already in use, and just look at the results (unless you're living in a bilingual environment of course, or your family is devoted to bilingualism.
I can speak English, French and Esperanto fluenty, can read very basic Arabic and Persian, and can carry on a conversation in Mandarin quite fluenty. But you need to understand that even if I could speak 50 languages fluenty, it still wouldn't change the fact that most students, even after years of study, still couldn't speak a second language unless exposed to it outside the classroom. So from that standpoint, how well any particular individual can learn however many languages has no bearing whatsoever on how the general population can. JAfter all, I am me, not the population, and you are you, not the population.
In the end, we need to solve a national language barrier, not an individual one.
By the way, I'd learnt Esperanto at the age of 20 and Chinese at 26. I'd learnt Arabic and Persian on my own after I'd learnt Esperanto, though I have yet to find time for them.
So the idea that an adult can't learn a language is ludicrus. In fact, from my experiences, those who have a solid grammatical foundation in their native language can learn a foreign language better than those who don't. So age has nothing to do with it. Read Penny Ur, Prof. Helmar Frank, Prof. Liuy Hai Tao, Prof. Elizabetta Formaggio, and others. I'm well read on applied pedagogical and social linguistics. So if you say that a child learns a language better than an adult, I say the opposite is true. Challenge me, and I can present many references with ISBN or website. It's well researched, and my personal experience confirms this.
So the idea that an adult can't learn a language is ludicrus. In fact, from my experiences, those who have a solid grammatical foundation in their native language can learn a foreign language better than those who don't. So age has nothing to do with it. Read Penny Ur, Prof. Helmar Frank, Prof. Liuy Hai Tao, Prof. Elizabetta Formaggio, and others. I'm well read on applied pedagogical and social linguistics. So if you say that a child learns a language better than an adult, I say the opposite is true. Challenge me, and I can present many references with ISBN or website. It's well researched, and my personal experience confirms this.
Everybody knows the story of the Babel. The Emperor of Chin Dynasty in China, did an important thing: he unified the Chinese characters. This is one of the important reasons that the acient China became stronger and stronger.
Agreed. But he had the power to do this. No Canadian government could do this without the consent of the people.
One unified language is good, and that would be the best choice only if you could do that.
And the only way to do that would be to ensure language justice for all language groups, without favouring one over the other.
Then, the second best is, just let all the people become bilingual(or even trilingual) so that you can lower the barrier and communicate with other people from all over the country freely.
Fine in theory, but not everyone has the resources to do this. Remember, Canada is a democracy, so we can't have a language policy that benefits only those in the big cities, or those with the necessary resources to learn these languages, or those with a knack for language, or living in bilingual families and communities. Not al have such opportunity. Just visit the Chinese countryside and you'll see what I mean. I have!
Agreed. But he had the power to do this. No Canadian government could do this without the consent of the people.
One unified language is good, and that would be the best choice only if you could do that.
And the only way to do that would be to ensure language justice for all language groups, without favouring one over the other.
Then, the second best is, just let all the people become bilingual(or even trilingual) so that you can lower the barrier and communicate with other people from all over the country freely.
Fine in theory, but not everyone has the resources to do this. Remember, Canada is a democracy, so we can't have a language policy that benefits only those in the big cities, or those with the necessary resources to learn these languages, or those with a knack for language, or living in bilingual families and communities. Not al have such opportunity. Just visit the Chinese countryside and you'll see what I mean. I have!
I don't think a bilingual system(or even trilingual) is bad. it's just like an investment, when you're building up a Babel. Of course an investment costs money.
If you have the money to invest in it. Don't forget, Shanghai is not your average Chinese city. I'd lived there before, and it gives no idea of the China beyond. A Shanghainese who'se never left that city might erroneously take for granted that every farmer has the money to invest in this.
And the earlier you start this languag education, the better. Don't wait until the kids are in Grade 10 Grade 11. I started to learn English when I was in Junior high(equivalent to your Grade 7 or 8 I guess).
I beg to differ. Your English is better than that of many Chinese adults I've met who'd started learning it at an eary age. Often they have no foundation. My Chinese isn't very good, yet even I can detect errors in the Chinese of some supposedly education Chinese! A Chinese professor friend of mine has confirmed my suspicion. He'd mentionned that often, when he'd ask his students to translate between Chinese and their foreign language, theyu cannot, not because of their lack of proficiency in the foreign language, BUT RATHER DUE TO THEIR LACK OF PROFICIENCY IN THE GRAMMAR OF THEIR OWN MOTHER TONGUE! They have no foundation in the native language. They're too busy studying English from an early age to learn their mother tongue well. As a result, they have mastery of neither language. Wonderful isn't it?
And nowadays in China, kids start to learn English from primary school, or even preschool, like my 3 yo son. I believe that every kid has gift in language learning. As long as he/she's capable to learn the first language, he/ she's capable to a second, third. The younger, the better. It's so obvious, b/c I see that today's university students can speak way much better English than we do: they started at a younger age. And for my 3 yo son, learning English is just fun.
Hmmm.... Read my reply above.
I've never learned French, and I don't know what exactly the education system is like in Canada, since i still live in Shanghai now. I just think if the gov want a bilingual system, they should just let the kids start it earlier. We all know that a non-English speaker kid from China can learn to speak fluent English in only a year, and the younger, the faster, but if it's an adult, maybe he/she can never achieve that. And I remeber my first English teacher, who's a good lady, but really, her English was horrible, because she studied Russian as a second language in middle school, and she started to learn English in university.
English in a year? I've yet to see that! Come to Changchun if you ever have the chance. We'll chat over dinner. I can tell you of many experiences in China. I don't even trust a contract written by a Chinese with a master's degree in English; I'd been in one courtcase over that due to his misunderstanding of certain subtleties in the language. And this si a common occurence by the way; I'm not uique here.
IMHO, Bilingual education, forcing French teaching, should begin from preschool, and stop in grade 10 or earlier,and then you decide yourself whether to learn more.
Oh give me a break. Most preschoolers can't even speak their native language yet! And don't tell me they do. I'm not talking about telling mum they're hungry and want an ice cream. I'm talking about understanding even the most basic concept of subject-verb agreement, that doesn't even exist in Chinese for example! Learning a foreign language at that age is most inefficient. Read up on hard research that disproves all these popular myths. Again, read my earlier post to see names of researchers in this field who will rebut this rediculous claim.
If you have the money to invest in it. Don't forget, Shanghai is not your average Chinese city. I'd lived there before, and it gives no idea of the China beyond. A Shanghainese who'se never left that city might erroneously take for granted that every farmer has the money to invest in this.
And the earlier you start this languag education, the better. Don't wait until the kids are in Grade 10 Grade 11. I started to learn English when I was in Junior high(equivalent to your Grade 7 or 8 I guess).
I beg to differ. Your English is better than that of many Chinese adults I've met who'd started learning it at an eary age. Often they have no foundation. My Chinese isn't very good, yet even I can detect errors in the Chinese of some supposedly education Chinese! A Chinese professor friend of mine has confirmed my suspicion. He'd mentionned that often, when he'd ask his students to translate between Chinese and their foreign language, theyu cannot, not because of their lack of proficiency in the foreign language, BUT RATHER DUE TO THEIR LACK OF PROFICIENCY IN THE GRAMMAR OF THEIR OWN MOTHER TONGUE! They have no foundation in the native language. They're too busy studying English from an early age to learn their mother tongue well. As a result, they have mastery of neither language. Wonderful isn't it?
And nowadays in China, kids start to learn English from primary school, or even preschool, like my 3 yo son. I believe that every kid has gift in language learning. As long as he/she's capable to learn the first language, he/ she's capable to a second, third. The younger, the better. It's so obvious, b/c I see that today's university students can speak way much better English than we do: they started at a younger age. And for my 3 yo son, learning English is just fun.
Hmmm.... Read my reply above.
I've never learned French, and I don't know what exactly the education system is like in Canada, since i still live in Shanghai now. I just think if the gov want a bilingual system, they should just let the kids start it earlier. We all know that a non-English speaker kid from China can learn to speak fluent English in only a year, and the younger, the faster, but if it's an adult, maybe he/she can never achieve that. And I remeber my first English teacher, who's a good lady, but really, her English was horrible, because she studied Russian as a second language in middle school, and she started to learn English in university.
English in a year? I've yet to see that! Come to Changchun if you ever have the chance. We'll chat over dinner. I can tell you of many experiences in China. I don't even trust a contract written by a Chinese with a master's degree in English; I'd been in one courtcase over that due to his misunderstanding of certain subtleties in the language. And this si a common occurence by the way; I'm not uique here.
IMHO, Bilingual education, forcing French teaching, should begin from preschool, and stop in grade 10 or earlier,and then you decide yourself whether to learn more.
Oh give me a break. Most preschoolers can't even speak their native language yet! And don't tell me they do. I'm not talking about telling mum they're hungry and want an ice cream. I'm talking about understanding even the most basic concept of subject-verb agreement, that doesn't even exist in Chinese for example! Learning a foreign language at that age is most inefficient. Read up on hard research that disproves all these popular myths. Again, read my earlier post to see names of researchers in this field who will rebut this rediculous claim.