Bilingual Nation
- Thread starter karrie
- Start date
You don't know what your talking about, as Burnaby is 'huge', and is mostly white people.
And, parts of Burnaby are high end housing areas, as well.
So, if you were to change it, what would you change? Wipe it out altogether and make Canada's official language English? Or just remove some of the governmental support like mandatory labelling and documentation and such, and let each region sort it out by demand?Yeah, like I said, impractical and expensive.but it seems to work except in Quebec.
The latter. Leave it up to the provinces how they'd like the manage it, but I'd keep Canada officially bilingual.
So, you were the first to respond, yet you're the last one I'm replying to. lol. Not because I was ignoring, but, because I was mulling on what you wrote.
Now, you wrote ' without going into historical reasons', but I find I have hard time explaining the way I view it without getting into the unique Canadian history. Key to the issue is that of 'ownership'. Who has more of a right to the Canadian identity? The French or the English? To me, and to a great many in the country, you'd be hard pressed, even though the French are fewer in number, to say that they don't have as much right to their culture as we have to ours. Both were so key in developing the nation. And, as stats I've showed before show, a majority support that heritage.
While you state duality is divisive, the whole point of declaring Canada bilingual back in the 1960's, was to combat division. As I pointed out in the stats, 64% of Canadians still feel it's an important way to keep our country united.
It's a bit of an oddity really... maintaining our differences in order to maintain our unity. The comparison of marriage comes readily to mind.
As for cost, well... I really haven't found any reliable numbers there, but I'm looking! lol. Cost to manufacturers to maintain labels, I really could care less about. Cost for the government to keep records in French and English I am curious about however. I am also chatting with the principal of my children's school on Wednesday morning. One of the questions I hope to pose is that of the cost difference between their program and that of the English classes, since the school runs both.
Durka Durka
In all honesty, I don't think the Chinese are any worse of a driver then any other race..
My God......are you ever wrong.
In all honesty, I don't think the Chinese are any worse of a driver then any other race..
My God......are you ever wrong.
Karrie - I loved the responses you received here - gave me some food for thought as well.
When I was referring to historical identity I was actually thinking of the original nations which comprised the population of Canada - the First Nations. The British and French colonziation was secondary if we are speaking in terms of linguistics. If there was to be an original 'secondary' or 'conquering' language I agree it should be eqully divided, however I still believe the excessive cost of operating a nation under a duality of languages is expensive and negates the unity which you claim bilingualism does for a country.
I have to disagree - because when Canadians are describing themselves - they use two primary identifiers: Canadian and French-Canadian (unless of a later migration from another nation of course).... therefore the duality is immediate. French Canadians self-identify as the original Canadians which is an historical rewrite or not - depending upon the historian.
Canadians must simply be Canadian under one language and in unity.
That does not address what appears to be a cultural issue rather than a government issue. It would be less expensive for education, government laws, legislative assembly, taxation, immigration, and all the other duties which fall to government be accomplished in one language only. Canada simply does not have enough money to be bilingual.
Canada on the other hand wishes to be identified as bilingual and so it should be - but what other language than English should it be? French - the romantic and European identifier which many Canadians praise is segregationist and contentious and certainly not aimed at a united Canada....but seem to be passionate about separation. Ask the new immigrants how they feel about this great historical error. It has cost Canada dearly in trying to 'make it work' - and it doesn't. Certainly not in the here and now.
Another point is the migration which will eventually accomplish what Canada so much needs - more people - will bring yet more languages and cultures to her shores. Is Canada going to insist on all these languages become part of the Canadian government as well? Hardly. You have to draw the line somewhere and cut expenses somewhere.
Simply put Canada cannot afford their cultural dream in government. It can have its dream on a cultural national level - bilingualism by choice for its children - or better: trilingualism to maintain ancestry as well. But not in government. The Canadian government finally sought to remove much of religion out of its laws - especially the Roman Catholic dictates brought by the French-speaking Canadians, which again was another expensive error but these are no longer a factor. I believe bi-lingualism is yet another hold over which Canada cannot support.
The money which is wasted on duality in government can be utilized for the people who in reality are in more need than whether the people speak English and French or not It is a dream long since past its reality and is now strangling the concept of a united Canada which should be the primary objective of government.
One example I have of many which I used to take for granted living in Canada is reading the bilingualism on the trade products so prevalent in the U.S. which are made in Canada or produit du Canada (of which I am thrilled and proud). Kleenex boxes in French - how witless is that? What kind of appeasement are we making shipping Kleenex boxes of an American corporation - to the U.S. in the two languages of Canadian national law. Might as well stuff a few Canadian dollars in the box as an added gift thank you.
Culture can be realized by the people themselves, not dictated by government mandate. Most little children learn rudimentary language before they are one year of age - why not all children - learning the language of their family - English (or French) as the dominant Canadian language - and any other choices the family wish. It is time for Canada to drop the posturing - it simply cannot afford to support duality and yes I repeat it is extremely divisive. To watch the government of Canada in session with translations and hearing devices reminds me of the United Nations rather than one country discussing the laws of its people. I repeat - duality is divisive
If one wishes to argue - I invite them to visit an ethnic neighborhood and stand at a bus stop and listen - will you hear Urdu, Italian, French, Mandarin, Cantonese, Czech, or another language in which you have no schooling. Will you feel left out? Angry?Insulted? That is what more than one language in government does. It excludes people even while insisting they 'learn the languages' - absolutely useless and far too expensive.
Caveat: As I am no longer Canadian I appreciate being able to write this on a Canadian forum - it is important to me to maintain a connection to my roots. I am also grateful there is no language barrier for me - and to those who have another language than English - I congratulate you for being so brave to join an English speaking forum. I would never have the courage or the intellect to attempt this in another language.
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Thanks for all the input Curiosity,
The one about packaging is one that's always made me laugh, as I fail to see where the substantial cost comes in. Initial package design is the only place I see it being a burden to packagers, since from there it simply prints off. Most packages now are fully inked so as to be colorful, so it's no extra ink. It's not like someone has to write it out again for each new box being printed. I just can't see where the huge burden of cost lies there. But maybe I'm missing something.
Regardless of what you've written (which I do appreciate), my gut still goes with official bilingualism. Perhaps it's my french roots showing. lol. Having grown up in Alberta also probably affected that, since it's one of the more French friendly regions outside of Quebec and the maritimes, surprisingly. But, I'm attempting to examine the costs of bilingualism, if it's at all possible to get solid numbers, and think perhaps what was discussed last night... official languages, but regions decide how they manage them themselves, without the federal government pushing a plan either way... would be a wiser way to go.
Ever been to Italy? I don't think they know what brakes and reverse gears are for. I understand the French can be a bit odd, too. Then there is old people. A Sikh taxidriver I hired once had let his taxi run down, it took the transmission a couple minits to actually get into a gear once he had moved the shifter. His driving habits were similar to the condition his car was in: extremely sloppy.
L Gilbert
Ever been to Italy?
Nope ,but have heard allot about drivers in Italy. Here in China if you drive according to the regulations ,you Will Not survive as a driver .
Ever been to Italy?
Nope ,but have heard allot about drivers in Italy. Here in China if you drive according to the regulations ,you Will Not survive as a driver .
You are going on about nothing. It already is up to the provinces to do whatever they want concerning their own official languages and their own education systems. The federal government only requires French-language education and services available where numbers warrant. Everything else is up to the provinces, and it has been nothing but a majority of voters in the provinces which have advanced bilingualism in the provinces. All federal documents and services are available in both languages, which is the way it should be. And federal government officials and employees need to be bilingual... I think it is the least we can demand from people who get such excellent, secure jobs in the government.
Canada, despite your own impressions of the situation, has pursued bilingualism in a very prudent and conservative (little C) fashion. Most of what you are bitching about is entirely not the case. As I said, if your kids are made to study French in school, it's only because of your own provincial, city, and school governments representing a majority of voters in their jurisdictions. And by the way, it's also for their own good and for the good of our country. So why don't you just stop?
Canada, despite your own impressions of the situation, has pursued bilingualism in a very prudent and conservative (little C) fashion. Most of what you are bitching about is entirely not the case. As I said, if your kids are made to study French in school, it's only because of your own provincial, city, and school governments representing a majority of voters in their jurisdictions. And by the way, it's also for their own good and for the good of our country. So why don't you just stop?
I don't see the problem people have with bilingualism. I'm functionally bilingual and I think learning another language, any other language, is a worthwhile exercise. I think it's a shame so many people in North America won't ever do that. I don't think it has to be divisive. It is only what we make it.
I have to smile when I think of how unofficial bilingualism exists almost everywhere immigration exists. It's natural. Spanish down here is like Mandarin in Vancouver. Most of the babies I look after have names like Jose and Yesinia. I do feel strongly they should learn English as well, but I don't have a problem with others learning Spanish to help them. I guess I'm just practical. It doesn't matter if it's wrong or right, it just is so we have to deal with it.
I have to smile when I think of how unofficial bilingualism exists almost everywhere immigration exists. It's natural. Spanish down here is like Mandarin in Vancouver. Most of the babies I look after have names like Jose and Yesinia. I do feel strongly they should learn English as well, but I don't have a problem with others learning Spanish to help them. I guess I'm just practical. It doesn't matter if it's wrong or right, it just is so we have to deal with it.
Just out of curiosity, Curiosity, what makes you no longer Canadian? Did you formally renouce your citizenship in front of a Canadian consular official? Did you submit the paperwork involved with renunciation of citizenship?
Loss of a citizenship is not something that typically just happens in Canada without the express request of the person wishing to renounce it, so I guess I am just asking if you specifically sought to renounce your Canadian citizenship legally with Canadian authorities, or if you simply became naturalised in the US and are perhaps unaware that this does not automatically remove your Canadian citizenship...
Loss of a citizenship is not something that typically just happens in Canada without the express request of the person wishing to renounce it, so I guess I am just asking if you specifically sought to renounce your Canadian citizenship legally with Canadian authorities, or if you simply became naturalised in the US and are perhaps unaware that this does not automatically remove your Canadian citizenship...
Here's what I'd like to know.
What percentage of francophones learning English learn it successfully, and what percentage of anglophones learning French learn it successfully?
And please don't use Montreal as an example; it's such a trilingual city one is exposed to language from birth onwards. Outside Montreal though (and I've lived in many parts of Canada, namely Victoria, Sidney BC, Vancouver, Toronto, Waterloo, Ottawa, Montreal, la Malbaie, and Roberval, for various reasons, usually professional), and I can say that most anglophones who learn French can't use it, and most francophones who learn English can't use it. Ottawa might be another exception alongside Montreal, along with francophones or anglophones living as minorities (eg francophones in Toronto or Anglophones in Quebec city). But for the vast majority, taxpayer money is being wasted.
Why not try a more efficient system? Here would be my recommendation:
1. Have all Canadian students start to learn Esperanto (extremely easy language) as a second language at the age of eight.
2. At the age of ten, give them a test. Those who pass can choose a second foreign language of their choice; the rest continue with Esperanto (after all, if you can't learn an easy language, how will you ever learn a difficult one?).
3. Those who failed can take the test again at the age of eleven. If they pass, they get to choose a second foreign language of their choice, and those who fail continue with Esperanto (after all, if Esperanto is that difficult, how will that student ever learn English or French, which are MUCH more difficult?)
4. at the age of fourteen, students are free to choose whether or not to continue studying a second language or specialize in other subjects. Through such a policy, it would be guaranteed that even the dullest students would be fluently bilingual in either French or English, plus Esperanto. And the brighter students would know a third language too. This would be a great improvement compared to the current monolingualism dominating most of the country. This could also save money on translation costs for government and business, by ensuring that all in the country could speak at least one common second language, a situation we don't have today despite all the money being wasted.
What percentage of francophones learning English learn it successfully, and what percentage of anglophones learning French learn it successfully?
And please don't use Montreal as an example; it's such a trilingual city one is exposed to language from birth onwards. Outside Montreal though (and I've lived in many parts of Canada, namely Victoria, Sidney BC, Vancouver, Toronto, Waterloo, Ottawa, Montreal, la Malbaie, and Roberval, for various reasons, usually professional), and I can say that most anglophones who learn French can't use it, and most francophones who learn English can't use it. Ottawa might be another exception alongside Montreal, along with francophones or anglophones living as minorities (eg francophones in Toronto or Anglophones in Quebec city). But for the vast majority, taxpayer money is being wasted.
Why not try a more efficient system? Here would be my recommendation:
1. Have all Canadian students start to learn Esperanto (extremely easy language) as a second language at the age of eight.
2. At the age of ten, give them a test. Those who pass can choose a second foreign language of their choice; the rest continue with Esperanto (after all, if you can't learn an easy language, how will you ever learn a difficult one?).
3. Those who failed can take the test again at the age of eleven. If they pass, they get to choose a second foreign language of their choice, and those who fail continue with Esperanto (after all, if Esperanto is that difficult, how will that student ever learn English or French, which are MUCH more difficult?)
4. at the age of fourteen, students are free to choose whether or not to continue studying a second language or specialize in other subjects. Through such a policy, it would be guaranteed that even the dullest students would be fluently bilingual in either French or English, plus Esperanto. And the brighter students would know a third language too. This would be a great improvement compared to the current monolingualism dominating most of the country. This could also save money on translation costs for government and business, by ensuring that all in the country could speak at least one common second language, a situation we don't have today despite all the money being wasted.
That's a pretty offensive statement to the Chinese. Infested? Wow. Maybe you should start a petition or something to get the chinese head tax reinstated or better yet push them out of Canada. I have a feeling you won't like the latter because your taxes would go up from the loss of taxpayers.
And how exactly did the chinese push the whites out of richmond? You make it sound like they were forced out.
OMG, people like you give Canada a bad name.
What, are you running a race to see how big of an a s s h o l e you can be? You're in the lead, you f u c k i n g d i c k w a d.
GROW UP YOU ARSEWIPE.
Westmanguy is just proving that all races are equal, for all races to be equal one would assume there would have to be an equal number of racist jackasses in proportion to each other.
Given the large number of very, very bigoted "asians" (despite never having set foot on Asia) in my extended family it would that westmanguy has people of like mind of every race and creed.
Given the large number of very, very bigoted "asians" (despite never having set foot on Asia) in my extended family it would that westmanguy has people of like mind of every race and creed.