Beyond Impeachment

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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I think not said:
mrmom2 said:
Please tell me you r not thnking of Hillary ITN 8O Because she is owned by the same people that own Bush

Well look, I admit you never know, but, I did meet her actually once and she seemed like a cool chick. Plus she helped NY alot after 9/11 so I'm a bit biased. However, if she does run, I doubt she will win, especially in the red states. They prefer Laura the Queen bitch type.

too bad . No accounting for poor taste.-in leadership. Nothing against Laura as a person. But she is rigid and a conformist. (an image of "miss prim - that is highly cultivated ) She just regurgitates bush, in better English.

I have been impressed each time I heard her speak. ( Hillary)......and she is articulate and quite sound. She might need a bit more "seasoning" and experience.
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
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Billys pretty cozy with Bush Sr these days who knows she might have a chance :? That would mean nothing would really change though :?
 

Ocean Breeze

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mrmom2 said:
Billys pretty cozy with Bush Sr these days who knows she might have a chance :? That would mean nothing would really change though :?

politics makes strange bedfellows.. :wink:
 

Ocean Breeze

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mrmom2 said:
Not politics Ocean Money from companys like Halliburton and the Carlyle Group :x

absolutely. :x Politics is also a form of "big business" with lots of favors going back and forth. ( with "pay offs" etc)
 

Ocean Breeze

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bulldog said:
Ocean Breeze said:
bulldog said:
I think not said:
Ocean Breeze said:
let's see now. The topic is Beyond impeachment. The person in question is Bush. The USers voted bush in for two terms. Meanwhile ITN .....continues to play word games and spin things , so as to deflect from the topic on hand. There are plenty of threads appropriate to Cdn content and critique without bringing up Canada as a weak /pitiful defense for the sleeze the US has in office. One can only interpret these word games / manipulation as a defense of the bush regime. Why not come out and say so. ?? Word manipulation just does not cut it and is transparent as he**. :roll: It is also the tactic the bush regime (that should be impeached and tried for war crimes ) uses with monotonous regularity.

either make a case for impeachment and war crimes tribunal or support him.

Let's see now. The topic is Beyond Impeachment and yet Ocean Breeze continues to bash Americans to justify her pitiful superior morality complex. Her logic suggests that since Americans do not somehow overthrow Bush then we must all be war mongering people. And yet when she has repeatedly been confronted with the same questions regarding the Brits and Aussies, she somehow avoids answering and screams OFF topic.

color]
But during the process of expressing your distorted morality, don't expect me to sit back and not comment. If you are capable of passing such judgement, you are implying that you are above everyone you criticise. But alas you cannot be selective in your criticisms. The Brits re-elected a warmongering leader that has brainwashed his people. Oh yeah his ratings have gone up by the way. Same for the Skips. They must enjoy killing babies if the re-elected Howard.

As for your comments that I'm spinning, if you would try to stay on topic and not stray off with your accusations, it will be easier to comment on "Beyond Impeachment".

And finally, I have never supported Bush, but I am neither obsessed nor narrow-minded and look a bit beyond certain things. Do I think he should be impeached? Yeah. But Cheney will take over, so whats the point?

Keep it up though, and as long as I can, I'll be here to remind you how "distorted" your morality is.


You know what? I'll be at your side to provide a little more balance in this discussion. Hatred aimed at the Americans is a waste. In my experience, Americans in general don't hate Canada. So you throw all that hatred at the US, and it serves no purpose. Instead it bounces back and reflects badly on us.

Bull Dog


Oh :!: Bull Dog. :!: Who in heck "hates" Americans. Just because some of us are a tad "vocal" about their current regime and wonder how an ordinarily intelligent people would re-elect this gang into office is also expressing concern for Americans. What their regime does has a ripple effect around the world. This has NOTHING To do with "hate" but everything to do with concerns about the direction that the US regime has taken. Even if "we" bash this regime.......does not imply "hatred".-sheesh. That is highly presumptuous ...... and in keeping with black/white thinking modality. Very disappointing to see this kind of interpretation.


Well, you could have fooled me. How about this statement from Moghrabi? "This would definitely make the US look the ass it is plus the stench that comes with the ass."

And this one just above, "If you believe Americans are assholes and that somehow justifies your complex, that is fine by me, you are beyond help and reason, not to mention obsessed. You have accused an entire population of being nothing more than dirt, sheeple, idiots, intolerant, warmongers and I won't continue because a page will not be enough."

There are scads of horrid statements about the American public on this forum. I still stand by what I said: Such a nasty outpouring is only going to be foolhardy and embarrassing in the long run. Time would be must better spent in trying to understand what has happened and why.

Bull Dog


Of course there are plenty of "colorful" remarks about the US here .........but that is simply part of the forum and people are entitled to express their views and frustrations/anger too. Realistically speaking, I would rather see people express their frustration in a forum /and with words ......than any act that is more dangerous and aggressive. Let's not forget , the USers are a tough lot and they give as good as they get. Think that things would be very different if they had gotten rid of the bush regime at the last election. The fact they did not, makes them party to the current regime. That is democracy and the rule of the majority. I agree ,that it is sad that those that did not want bush in have to be grouped into the "majority"...
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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peapod said:
dear dear ocean :wink: Actually, and I cannot believe I have to do this 8O because we are both on the same side, but when you post this kind of thing:

"the question this continues to raise is: How come the US population is so complacent /tolerant of the current Regime.??? The other is : Is the US population to frightened to ask the hard questions due to what the answers might be?? .......Would this might blow up their little delusional bubble of superiority , and create havoc in their collective comfort zone??

Or does the current Regime represent who USers are now??? Corrupt, deceitful, dishonest, with the entire focus being the botton line...( no matter the ethics, morals or standard OR LAW.)"

Call me crazy, but it seem a bit inciteful to me. I could be wrong, its just my opinion. But it seems very un-canadian to me. Just my 2 cents worth. Confusing indeed, since I am anti bush, and anti american government.


ooops. That was a tad terse. :oops: Could have rephrased it in milder tones. The question being : why aren't the USers protesting the current regime?? I wonder at their silence --- and this is where I perceive a certain compliance. OK.....I simply don't understand how they can be so silent about all the lies that were spun for the travesty in Iraq. Maybe someone can help with this.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
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Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense?

By John W. Dean
FindLaw Columnist
Special to CNN.com


(FindLaw) --President George W. Bush has got a very serious problem. Before asking Congress for a joint resolution authorizing the use of U.S. military forces in Iraq, he made a number of unequivocal statements about the reason the United States needed to pursue the most radical actions any nation can undertake -- acts of war against another nation.

Now it is clear that many of his statements appear to be false. In the past, Bush's White House has been very good at sweeping ugly issues like this under the carpet, and out of sight. But it is not clear that they will be able to make the question of what happened to Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) go away -- unless, perhaps, they start another war.

That seems unlikely. Until the questions surrounding the Iraqi war are answered, Congress and the public may strongly resist more of President Bush's warmaking.

Presidential statements, particularly on matters of national security, are held to an expectation of the highest standard of truthfulness. A president cannot stretch, twist or distort facts and get away with it. President Lyndon Johnson's distortions of the truth about Vietnam forced him to stand down from reelection. President Richard Nixon's false statements about Watergate forced his resignation.

Frankly, I hope the WMDs are found, for it will end the matter. Clearly, the story of the missing WMDs is far from over. And it is too early, of course, to draw conclusions. But it is not too early to explore the relevant issues.
President Bush's statements on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction

Readers may not recall exactly what President Bush said about weapons of mass destruction; I certainly didn't. Thus, I have compiled these statements below. In reviewing them, I saw that he had, indeed, been as explicit and declarative as I had recalled.

Bush's statements, in chronological order, were:

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."

United Nations address, September 12, 2002

"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."

"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."

Radio address, October 5, 2002

"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons."

"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" -- his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."

Cincinnati, Ohio speech, October 7, 2002

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."

State of the Union Address, January 28, 2003

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

Address to the nation, March 17, 2003
Should the president get the benefit of the doubt?

When these statements were made, Bush's let-me-mince-no-words posture was convincing to many Americans. Yet much of the rest of the world, and many other Americans, doubted them.

As Bush's veracity was being debated at the United Nations, it was also being debated on campuses -- including those where I happened to be lecturing at the time.

On several occasions, students asked me the following question: Should they believe the president of the United States? My answer was that they should give the President the benefit of the doubt, for several reasons deriving from the usual procedures that have operated in every modern White House and that, I assumed, had to be operating in the Bush White House, too.

First, I assured the students that these statements had all been carefully considered and crafted. Presidential statements are the result of a process, not a moment's though. White House speechwriters process raw information, and their statements are passed on to senior aides who have both substantive knowledge and political insights. And this all occurs before the statement ever reaches the President for his own review and possible revision.

Second, I explained that -- at least in every White House and administration with which I was familiar, from Truman to Clinton -- statements with national security implications were the most carefully considered of all. The White House is aware that, in making these statements, the president is speaking not only to the nation, but also to the world.

Third, I pointed out to the students, these statements are typically corrected rapidly if they are later found to be false. And in this case, far from backpedaling from the President's more extreme claims, Bush's press secretary, Ari Fleischer had actually, at times, been even more emphatic than the President had. For example, on January 9, 2003, Fleischer stated, during his press briefing, "We know for a fact that there are weapons there."

In addition, others in the Bush administration were similarly quick to back the President up, in some cases with even more unequivocal statements. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld repeatedly claimed that Saddam had WMDs -- and even went so far as to claim he knew "where they are; they're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad."

Finally, I explained to the students that the political risk was so great that, to me, it was inconceivable that Bush would make these statements if he didn't have damn solid intelligence to back him up. Presidents do not stick their necks out only to have them chopped off by political opponents on an issue as important as this, and if there was any doubt, I suggested, Bush's political advisers would be telling him to hedge. Rather than stating a matter as fact, he would be say: "I have been advised," or "Our intelligence reports strongly suggest," or some such similar hedge. But Bush had not done so.

So what are we now to conclude if Bush's statements are found, indeed, to be as grossly inaccurate as they currently appear to have been?

After all, no weapons of mass destruction have been found, and given Bush's statements, they should not have been very hard to find -- for they existed in large quantities, "thousands of tons" of chemical weapons alone. Moreover, according to the statements, telltale facilities, groups of scientists who could testify, and production equipment also existed.

So where is all that? And how can we reconcile the White House's unequivocal statements with the fact that they may not exist?

There are two main possibilities. One, that something is seriously wrong within the Bush White House's national security operations. That seems difficult to believe. The other is that the president has deliberately misled the nation, and the world.
A desperate search for WMDs has so far yielded little, if any, fruit

Even before formally declaring war against Saddam Hussein's Iraq, the president had dispatched American military special forces into Iraq to search for weapons of mass destruction, which he knew would provide the primary justification for Operation Freedom. None were found.

Throughout Operation Freedom's penetration of Iraq and drive toward Baghdad, the search for WMDs continued. None were found.

As the coalition forces gained control of Iraqi cities and countryside, special search teams were dispatched to look for WMDs. None were found.

During the past two and a half months, according to reliable news reports, military patrols have visited over 300 suspected WMD sites throughout Iraq. None of the prohibited weapons were found there.
British and American press reaction to the missing WMDs

British Prime Minister Tony Blair is also under serious attack in England, which he dragged into the war unwillingly, based on the missing WMDs. In Britain, the missing WMDs are being treated as scandalous; so far, the reaction in the U.S. has been milder.

New York Times columnist, Paul Krugman, has taken Bush sharply to task, asserting that it is "long past time for this administration to be held accountable." "The public was told that Saddam posed an imminent threat," Krugman argued. "If that claim was fraudulent," he continued, "the selling of the war is arguably the worst scandal in American political history -- worse than Watergate, worse than Iran-contra." But most media outlets have reserved judgment as the search for WMDs in Iraq continues.

Still, signs do not look good. Last week, the Pentagon announced it was shifting its search from looking for WMD sites, to looking for people who can provide leads as to where the missing WMDs might be.

Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton, while offering no new evidence, assured Congress that WMDs would indeed be found. And he advised that a new unit called the Iraq Survey Group, composed of some 1400 experts and technicians from around the world, is being deployed to assist in the searching.

But, as Time magazine reported, the leads are running out. According to Time, the Marine general in charge explained that "[w]e've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad," and remarked flatly, "They're simply not there."

Perhaps most troubling, the president has failed to provide any explanation of how he could have made his very specific statements, yet now be unable to back them up with supporting evidence. Was there an Iraqi informant thought to be reliable, who turned out not to be? Were satellite photos innocently, if negligently misinterpreted? Or was his evidence not as solid as he led the world to believe?

The absence of any explanation for the gap between the statements and reality only increases the sense that the President's misstatements may actually have been intentional lies.
Investigating The Iraqi War intelligence reports

Even now, while the jury is still out as to whether intentional misconduct occurred, the President has a serious credibility problem. Newsweek magazine posed the key questions: "If America has entered a new age of pre-emption —when it must strike first because it cannot afford to find out later if terrorists possess nuclear or biological weapons—exact intelligence is critical. How will the United States take out a mad despot or a nuclear bomb hidden in a cave if the CIA can't say for sure where they are? And how will Bush be able to maintain support at home and abroad?"

In an apparent attempt to bolster the President's credibility, and his own, Secretary Rumsfeld himself has now called for a Defense Department investigation into what went wrong with the pre-war intelligence. New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd finds this effort about on par with O.J.'s looking for his wife's killer. But there may be a difference: Unless the members of Administration can find someone else to blame -- informants, surveillance technology, lower-level personnel, you name it -- they may not escape fault themselves.

Congressional committees are also looking into the pre-war intelligence collection and evaluation. Senator John Warner, R-Virginia, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said his committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee would jointly investigate the situation. And the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence plans an investigation.

These investigations are certainly appropriate, for there is potent evidence of either a colossal intelligence failure or misconduct -- and either would be a serious problem. When the best case scenario seems to be mere incompetence, investigations certainly need to be made.

Sen. Bob Graham -- a former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee -- told CNN's Aaron Brown, that while he still hopes they finds WMDs or at least evidence thereof, he has also contemplated three other possible alternative scenarios:

One is that [the WMDs] were spirited out of Iraq, which maybe is the worst of all possibilities, because now the very thing that we were trying to avoid, proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, could be in the hands of dozens of groups. Second, that we had bad intelligence. Or third, that the intelligence was satisfactory but that it was manipulated, so as just to present to the American people and to the world those things that made the case for the necessity of war against Iraq.

Sen. Graham seems to believe there is a serious chance that it is the final scenario that reflects reality. Indeed, Graham told CNN "there's been a pattern of manipulation by this administration."

Graham has good reason to complain. According to the New York Times, he was one of the few members of the Senate who saw the national intelligence estimate that was the basis for Bush's decisions. After reviewing it, Graham requested that the Bush administration declassify the information before the Senate voted on the administration's resolution requesting use of the military in Iraq.

But rather than do so, CIA Director Tenet merely sent Graham a letter discussing the findings. Graham then complained that Tenet's letter only addressed "findings that supported the administration's position on Iraq," and ignored information that raised questions about intelligence. In short, Graham suggested that the Administration, by cherrypicking only evidence to its own liking, had manipulated the information to support its conclusion.

Recent statements by one of the high-level officials privy to the decision making process that lead to the Iraqi war also strongly suggest manipulation, if not misuse of the intelligence agencies. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, during an interview with Sam Tannenhaus of Vanity Fair magazine, said: "The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason." More recently, Wolfowitz added what most have believed all along, that the reason we went after Iraq is that "[t]he country swims on a sea of oil."
Worse than Watergate? A potential huge scandal if WMDs are still missing

Krugman is right to suggest a possible comparison to Watergate. In the three decades since Watergate, this is the first potential scandal I have seen that could make Watergate pale by comparison. If the Bush Administration intentionally manipulated or misrepresented intelligence to get Congress to authorize, and the public to support, military action to take control of Iraq, then that would be a monstrous misdeed.

This administration may be due for a scandal. While Bush narrowly escaped being dragged into Enron, which was not, in any event, his doing. But the war in Iraq is all Bush's doing, and it is appropriate that he be held accountable.

To put it bluntly, if Bush has taken Congress and the nation into war based on bogus information, he is cooked. Manipulation or deliberate misuse of national security intelligence data, if proven, could be "a high crime" under the Constitution's impeachment clause. It would also be a violation of federal criminal law, including the broad federal anti-conspiracy statute, which renders it a felony "to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose."

It's important to recall that when Richard Nixon resigned, he was about to be impeached by the House of Representatives for misusing the CIA and FBI. After Watergate, all presidents are on notice that manipulating or misusing any agency of the executive branch improperly is a serious abuse of presidential power.

Nixon claimed that his misuses of the federal agencies for his political purposes were in the interest of national security. The same kind of thinking might lead a President to manipulate and misuse national security agencies or their intelligence to create a phony reason to lead the nation into a politically desirable war. Let us hope that is not the case.

John Dean, a FindLaw columnist, is a former counsel to the president of the United States.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/findlaw.analysis.dean.wmd/
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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gosh mog,.......that is like a flash back in time as those words are "played" back this way. They seem to have even more "impact" in their falseness when one reads them.

(thanks for that .........as it is a great refresher on the prelude to the insanity )


(don't know about you....but I remember thinking how "crazy" and transparently false it sounded at the time. )
 

PoisonPete2

Electoral Member
Apr 9, 2005
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very good overview. What I see is an administration that had a set senerio, accepted intelligence that fit their spin, pressured analysts to fall into line, threatened sources that provided antithesis material and smeared those inteligence professionals who would not succumb to their heavy-handed tactics. There are many intelligence officers whose careers are now going nowhere because they tried to perform their duties for the American people.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Re: RE: Beyond Impeachment

PoisonPete2 said:
very good overview. What I see is an administration that had a set senerio, accepted intelligence that fit their spin, pressured analysts to fall into line, threatened sources that provided antithesis material and smeared those inteligence professionals who would not succumb to their heavy-handed tactics. There are many intelligence officers whose careers are now going nowhere because they tried to perform their duties for the American people.

nicely capsulated. (formulated ) PP2. It has been documented that bush "wanted Iraq " since before he took office. He has been quoted as stating something like "find me a way into /or to get Iraq " This was well before 9-11 or any of the other ensuing events. One can do a forensic type timeline of his remarks , intentions , actions ........and then fill in the motives accordingly. 9-11 offered him the golden opportunity . But he had to divert into Afganistan first to make like he was dealing with the OBL terrorist group. (and of course fascilitate a regime change there. Kind of a practice run, if you will) Sadly for him, he did not factor in all the possible consequences of his intentions/actions and now has a mess on three fronts. Afganistan, Iraq and his "war" on terrorism. In his arrogance he over extended himself and might lose a lot more than he wanted to grab. Meanwhile the US reputation has taken a nose dive. Terrorism is alive and thriving. And OBL , the so called master mind behind 9-11......is also alive and thriving. Bush wanted too much in too much of a hurry. (then he lies about being a patient man)
 

zenfisher

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Sep 12, 2004
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Ocean Breeze said:
ooops. That was a tad terse. :oops: Could have rephrased it in milder tones. The question being : why aren't the USers protesting the current regime?? I wonder at their silence --- and this is where I perceive a certain compliance. OK.....I simply don't understand how they can be so silent about all the lies that were spun for the travesty in Iraq. Maybe someone can help with this.

To be fair...Protests have been made in several US cities( San Fransico, Portland, Seattle, etc.) Unfortunately they have been small at this point. That does not mean that Americans are compliant with the attitudes and actions of the current administration. Move on is constantly looking for ways to show how these policies impact Americans and citizens of the entire planet.

As the media does not see this as much of a national issue...most marches go unnoticed by the national news media. This means that local coverage handles it and it is rarely shown outside of the country. While it may seem that the American public doesn't care or is party to the assanine policies of the Bush administration...it is not.

Look at the results of the last election...Slightly over a third of eligible voters elected Bush. Slightly less than a third voted for Kerry. About a third did not vote. While some did not vote out of a need to protest the overall system or because they just don't like to vote....Nothing was mentioned about single parents, working two jobs, to feed their kids. How about the homeless who are more concerned with eking out a living than voting. Even the working poor...without kids, struggling to pay the overpriced rent in any large urban area find it hard to get out and vote. It is difficult to rationalize the importance of voting when you are just surviving. ( I think that's the wrong mentality...but what can you do.) That's where the problem lies...and that's how so many bad people get elected down here. They rely on this.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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July 27, 2005

“This is not an isolated criminal act we are dealing with; it is an extreme and evil ideology whose roots lie in a perverted and poisonous misinterpretation of the religion of Islam” Prime Minister Tony Blair

The “evil ideology” that underscores the war on terror is predicated on two basic theories; preemption and enemy combatants. Both of these run counter to fundamental principles of human rights and democratic governance. Both must be met head-on and defeated. There is no wiggle-room for equivocating or appeasement; this ideology is the greatest manifestation of fanaticism in the world since the rise of Nazism in the 1930’s and must be collectively challenged. As Tony Blair says, “This is not an isolated criminal act “but “an extreme and evil ideology” thrusting us towards global war and ever-increasing human rights abuse.

The preemptive doctrine overturns the conclusions of the Nuremburg Tribunals that “War is the Supreme Crime” from which all the lesser crimes naturally flow. It elevates war to a viable form of foreign policy; an acceptable means of establishing one state’s superiority over another. In the case of Iraq, where the theory was applied with the most appalling results; it has been exposed as a cruel facsimile of unprovoked aggression against a defenseless enemy. The horrific after-effects have been the destruction of Iraqi society, the death of over 100,000 civilians and an enduring conflict with no end in sight. These are the predictable consequences of a pernicious theory that glorifies force above all else.

The principle at the heart of “enemy combatants” is no less sinister than that of preemption. The theory presupposes that there is a category of men that are intrinsically undeserving of any human rights whatsoever. “Enemy combatants” is not intended to selectively deprive people of particular rights; it is a blanket indictment of anyone the president arbitrarily chooses to name; stripping them of their civil liberties without any legal recourse. It overturns every meaningful precedent of International law and American jurisprudence. Due process, habeas corpus and the presumption of innocence are all rescinded by executive edict. “Enemy combatants” is the language of tyrants; it represents the dénouement of the rule of law and the birth of the imperial presidency.

We have no choice but to categorically reject both these theories as a direct assault on the constitutional system, representative government and the inalienable rights of man.

It is clear now that the neocons, in their rise to power, developed a strategy to eliminate the obstacles in their path. They wisely narrowed their focus to three main areas where they anticipated the most resistance; civil liberties, congressional approval of war and the checks on presidential power. The monikers of “enemy combatant” and preemption, minted in neo-fascist think-tanks, have concealed the real objectives of their creators behind modern-sounding jargon. The goals, however, remain the same; declaration of a permanent state of war and the supremacy of the president.

That’s where we are now; the world tilting further and further to the right and the litany of horrors growing by the day. Torture and indefinite detention have become staples of the new foreign policy regime; compromising America’s prestige in the world and eroding the nation’s moral authority. “Usable nukes” are now an integral part of the Pentagon’s forward-defense strategy making the Bush administration the first country to claim a “first-strike” policy if US national interests are at stake. This makes the US the most dangerous nation in the world; brandishing its high-tech weaponry at third world countries and threatening to attack if they fail to comply with Washington’s directives.

The expression of Bush’s maligned vision is now evident everywhere; from the gun-towers over Guantanamo, to the concertina wire surrounding Falluja, to the cement abutments enclosing the White House. The rising wave of militarism has been accompanied by an equal and opposite retreat in civil liberties and personal freedom. The full-force of the economic-political-military establishment is bearing down on the institutions that preserved the peace for the last 60 years. The old order is crumbling and being replaced by a system that accepts no rule except the absolute authority of the executive.

Ideas are the fuel that power the engine of history. The radical ideology that animates the Bush regime is a force as real as the laser-guided munitions that pummeled Baghdad. They may be obscured by the vile fictions of the media, but their deadly meaning is not hard to grasp. They represent the greatest danger the world has ever seen; the globalization of state terror.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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zenfisher said:
Ocean Breeze said:
ooops. That was a tad terse. :oops: Could have rephrased it in milder tones. The question being : why aren't the USers protesting the current regime?? I wonder at their silence --- and this is where I perceive a certain compliance. OK.....I simply don't understand how they can be so silent about all the lies that were spun for the travesty in Iraq. Maybe someone can help with this.

To be fair...Protests have been made in several US cities( San Fransico, Portland, Seattle, etc.) Unfortunately they have been small at this point. That does not mean that Americans are compliant with the attitudes and actions of the current administration. Move on is constantly looking for ways to show how these policies impact Americans and citizens of the entire planet.

As the media does not see this as much of a national issue...most marches go unnoticed by the national news media. This means that local coverage handles it and it is rarely shown outside of the country. While it may seem that the American public doesn't care or is party to the assanine policies of the Bush administration...it is not.

Look at the results of the last election...Slightly over a third of eligible voters elected Bush. Slightly less than a third voted for Kerry. About a third did not vote. While some did not vote out of a need to protest the overall system or because they just don't like to vote....Nothing was mentioned about single parents, working two jobs, to feed their kids. How about the homeless who are more concerned with eking out a living than voting. Even the working poor...without kids, struggling to pay the overpriced rent in any large urban area find it hard to get out and vote. It is difficult to rationalize the importance of voting when you are just surviving. ( I think that's the wrong mentality...but what can you do.) That's where the problem lies...and that's how so many bad people get elected down here. They rely on this.

excellent points ,Zen. Thanks. Very realistic and true
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
95
48
Steps forward for the impeachment movement
Majority of U.S. public believes Bush misled the people
Buses coming from all over the U.S. for September 24

Haunted by the threat of impeachment, Bush has received the news that he dreaded most.

A majority of the U.S. public doubts the United States will win in Iraq and believes Bush intentionally misled the country about Iraq's weapons capabilities, according to a USA Today/CNN/Gallup poll.

Previous Gallop polls have asked the same questions, but this was the first time that over half of those polled - 51 per cent - believed Bush deliberately misled the people when he asserted Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, USA Today said.

As we reported two weeks ago, more than "two-in-five voters (42%) say they would favor impeachment proceedings if it is found the President misled the nation about his reasons for going to war with Iraq," according to a recent Zogby Poll.

The war in Iraq is one of the greatest atrocities in recent times. The Bush Administration's combination of arrogance with an utter disregard for the law requires Congress to immediately proceed with filing Articles of Impeachment. Tens of millions of people know with certainty that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and other leading officials lied to them. That is why the impeachment movement has developed as a nationwide grassroots political phenomenon.

On September 24, hundreds of thousands of people will be in the streets for major antiwar demonstrations in Washington DC, San Francisco and Los Angeles. The impeachment movement is organizing a major contingent for September 24 at the White House.


SEPTEMBER 24..........might be a date to remember.
 

jjw1965

Electoral Member
Jul 8, 2005
722
0
16
I'm an American and I think Mr. Bush Should be impeached for the crimes against the American people.
Namely for his involvement in 9/11, and that goes for his sidekick Cheney also!
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
We need more Americans like you, JJ. Not that you don't trust your government, but that are willing to speak out against it. I'm only forty, so maybe I missed something, but I don't remember there ever being such a lack of people being willing to talk back as these last few years.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
95
48
Re: RE: Beyond Impeachment

jjw1965 said:
I'm an American and I think Mr. Bush Should be impeached for the crimes against the American people.
Namely for his involvement in 9/11, and that goes for his sidekick Channey also!


Bravo!!! You are one of the SMART Americans.
 

jjw1965

Electoral Member
Jul 8, 2005
722
0
16
I can tell you this, most of the people I work with, think that he needs to go away also, but they say " there's nothing we can do about it", and thats just what the government wants you to think! that your insignificant, that you mean nothing!
Resistance is not futile! FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
Re: RE: Beyond Impeachment

jjw1965 said:
I'm an American and I think Mr. Bush Should be impeached for the crimes against the American people.
Namely for his involvement in 9/11, and that goes for his sidekick Channey also!

I am glad to have an American member on this board with an open mind. Welcome here JJ and feel right at home.