B.C. Teachers strike hitting outdoor education operators

[captain morgan]

uhm... no... apparently the facilities owner is 'wrong'. But given the choice between your experience/view, and his, I think I'm gonna stick with his complaints as per the article.

Yeah, definitely, going back and reading, they do education WEEKS at his facility, and those do not run 8-5 for the teachers, they're there for the WEEK too... 24/7. Kind of hard to ignore what someone who actually, currently, is dealing with this, has to say.

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of teachers don't participate in multi-day outings. For those that do, I see nothing wrong with providing a pay package that reflects this time and the extended responsibilities.

But this circumstance will only apply to the teachers that actually volunteer their time. The union appears to be employing this specific circumstance as a lever to gain more money for the entire body of teachers regardless if they volunteer or not.

 

[taxslave]

uhm... no... apparently the facilities owner is 'wrong'. But given the choice between your experience/view, and his, I think I'm gonna stick with his complaints as per the article.

Yeah, definitely, going back and reading, they do education WEEKS at his facility, and those do not run 8-5 for the teachers, they're there for the WEEK too... 24/7. Kind of hard to ignore what someone who actually, currently, is dealing with this, has to say.

And the teachers that are there are being paid their regular wage and get to play games with the kids.

 

[JLM]

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of teachers don't participate in multi-day outings. For those that do, I see nothing wrong with providing a pay package that reflects this time and the extended responsibilities.

But this circumstance will only apply to the teachers that actually volunteer their time. The union appears to be employing this specific circumstance as a lever to gain more money for the entire body of teachers regardless if they volunteer or not.

To "volunteer" traditionally means to do something for NO pay. If we are going to start paying some volunteers what will just set a precedent.

 

[karrie]

Are we talking pay or are we talking voluneering?

You posted the article, your article is discussing volunteer time, so I'm discussing per the parameters of the article.

 

[gerryh]

what the article proves, is that the kids are second to everything else, regardless of what the ministry says or what the teachers say.

 

[JLM]

I think he's saying that his pension is too high.



Think again, because every school sports team and extra curricular actvity that my kids are in does involve after-hours, or before-hours, work by teachers, and it's all volunteer.

The problem in B.C. isn't about volunteering, it's about teachers demanding more pay when the coffers simply aren't there. I'm not saying they don't deserve the money but you can't get blood out of a rock. As far as "volunteering" goes, by the definition of the word there is no money involved. :smile:

 

[karrie]

The problem in B.C. isn't about volunteering, it's about teachers demanding more pay when the coffers simply aren't there. I'm not saying they don't deserve the money but you can't get blood out of a rock. As far as "volunteering" goes, by the definition of the word there is no money involved. :smile:

But... you posted an article complaining about the damage they're doing by deciding not to volunteer.

You confuse me.

 

[JLM]

But... you posted an article complaining about the damage they're doing by deciding not to volunteer.

You confuse me.

I didn't write the article- just passed on a news item!

 

[karrie]

I didn't write the article- just passed on a news item!

And commented that they are unconcerned about collateral damage.

So I've been trying to ask you, honestly, should they be obligated to volunteer their time to keep companies afloat? Is that a functioning education system? A functioning economy?

 

[JLM]

And commented that they are unconcerned about collateral damage.

So I've been trying to ask you, honestly, should they be obligated to volunteer their time to keep companies afloat? Is that a functioning education system? A functioning economy?

Well, that's what the news item insinuated, if I read it correctly. I don't think most volunteers feel obligated to do it. But I do find it quite a coincidence if all the teachers who volunteer withdraw all at the same time, if the reason is for something other than the labour dispute.

 

[karrie]

Well, that's what the news item insinuated, if I read it correctly. I don't think most volunteers feel obligated to do it. But I do find it quite a coincidence if all the teachers who volunteer withdraw all at the same time, if the reason is for something other than the labour dispute.

It's no secret that the labour dispute is why they withdrew volunteering. As I was saying earlier in the thread, it's all well and good to say that everyone's had to tighten their purse straps due to the economy, everyone's had to take a hit.... but why should the teachers be expected to keep volunteering just to prevent these operators from taking a hit? If belts need tightening, and this is how teachers choose to tighten theirs, who has a right to complain?

 

[JLM]

It's no secret that the labour dispute is why they withdrew volunteering. As I was saying earlier in the thread, it's all well and good to say that everyone's had to tighten their purse straps due to the economy, everyone's had to take a hit.... but why should the teachers be expected to keep volunteering just to prevent these operators from taking a hit? If belts need tightening, and this is how teachers choose to tighten theirs, who has a right to complain?

I would think that people who decide to "tighten their belt" may do more volunteering as the reason for tightening one's belt is to free up more money. No?

 

[karrie]

I would think that people who decide to "tighten their belt" may do more volunteering as the reason for tightening one's belt is to free up more money. No?

So, you can't answer the question.

Should the teachers be expected to deal with no raises in pay, AND still be expected to maintain their volunteer commitments to secure OTHER people's livelihoods?

 

[damngrumpy]

The teachers are not allowed to strike, they cannot get a fairly negotiated contract
and now they want to try to force teachers to do extra activities which the volunteer
for. People cannot be forced to volunteer, you are either a volunteer for a forced
labourer. They don't get paid for the extras such as dances, coaching and so on.
The operator should be talking to government about getting serious about Contract
Talks instead of whining because some people don't want to volunteer so he can
make money at their expense.
The more I watch this thing the more I am amazed at how brazen the Christy Crunch
government is. They won't negotiate with teachers who perform a noble service but
they will pay the legal fees for two corrupt officials who pleaded guilty to crimes while
they worked for the government.
No sympathy for this guy or others who want to complain that that teachers don't want
to be forced to volunteer so they can profit. Its a labour dispute and sooner or later
their has to be a mutual settlement. Teacher contracts were illegally torn up by Gordo
when he came to office and the same in your face actions of attitude are continuing to
the present day/

 

[JLM]

So, you can't answer the question.

Should the teachers be expected to deal with no raises in pay, AND still be expected to maintain their volunteer commitments to secure OTHER people's livelihoods?

NO, and that wasn't the reason for the volunteering in the first place. The reason I would hope was to benefit the students, but if they don't really want to benefit the students then they shouldn't be expected to volunteer.

The teachers are not allowed to strike, they cannot get a fairly negotiated contract
and now they want to try to force teachers to do extra activities which the volunteer
for. People cannot be forced to volunteer, you are either a volunteer for a forced
labourer. They don't get paid for the extras such as dances, coaching and so on.
The operator should be talking to government about getting serious about Contract
Talks instead of whining because some people don't want to volunteer so he can
make money at their expense.
The more I watch this thing the more I am amazed at how brazen the Christy Crunch
government is. They won't negotiate with teachers who perform a noble service but
they will pay the legal fees for two corrupt officials who pleaded guilty to crimes while
they worked for the government.
No sympathy for this guy or others who want to complain that that teachers don't want
to be forced to volunteer so they can profit. Its a labour dispute and sooner or later
their has to be a mutual settlement. Teacher contracts were illegally torn up by Gordo
when he came to office and the same in your face actions of attitude are continuing to
the present day/

I thought George Abbott set the parameters for bargaining right from the get go. As far as Basi and Virk go those bastards should still be in jail or at least pay back their legal costs and I think it's encumbant upon Christy to rectify the problem. BUT, one has really nothing to do with the other, except to say that if those jerks repaid their legal costs it would provide a hefty bonus for the teachers.

 

[Machjo]

You really have to wonder how much that Susan Lambert worries about collateral damage!

B.C. Teachers strike hitting outdoor education operators - British Columbia - CBC News

I don't agree with the teachers' strike, but if we believe in capitalism, then certainly the operators are responsible to anticipate the unexpected in the market.