Australians Have it Right?

Alberta'sfinest

Electoral Member
Dec 9, 2005
217
0
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RE: Australians Have it R

Hank C is a victim of Conservative propaganda. I can dispell everything he just bitched about with simple logic.

"Canada has become nothing more than a "push-over" nation, that believes everyone loves us.....and we define our identity as "not American"."
Maybe it's because the US and Canada are almost identical as societies, but we don't want to be thrown in the same boat because we don't believe in world policing and entering countries without international approval. The US doesn't follow the rules they helped establish, and now can't be trusted. We want to make sure the world sees us as different.
" Its come to the point where if a Christian say god bless Canada he is chastised, yet we protect Tamil Tigers and are not allowed to say anything about muslim extremists."
That's a crock of crap, and we do nothing about the Tamils because of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is the backbone of our society. It's a grey area where the laws aren't clear enough to make arrests. Are hands are tied unless we wish to throw out the most importantant legislation in the history of our nation.

" We are more worried about a bunch of homosexuals getting married rather than protecting our arctic sovereignty. WHY?....we because military is bad and scary, its something for those evil Americans.....this was proven by the Liberal attack ads during the election."
I don't think equal rights for all citizens that are gaurenteed should even be up for debate because it has no effect on our nation, and it's gaurenteed by our charter of rights and freedoms. Are military isn't bad and scary, what's scary about the word peacekeepers? We also don't require a large army because we have lots of oil that the US wants, and they'll provide all the protection we'll ever need. We are actually expanding are military at the moment but they are having as much trouble recruiting soldiers, as businesses are having finding employees.

" Our production is not where near where it should be, and Canada is no longer looked at as a power, no one cares what Canada thinks anymore! I am surprised we are still a G8 nation."

Currently in Alberta, production is running flatout with a record unemployment rate of 4%, and 7% is considered to be the target rate. We simply don't have enough people to work all the jobs that are available. Mid summer the Bank of Canada released their suggestions and view on our current economy. They painted a picture that we have a labour shortage, and suggested to businesses that we should focus on increasing efficiency of industry as expansion is being held back by man power. Their projections point to reduction of production labour, that will be replaced with an increase in the technology sector. People are flocking to this new labour market, while places like ford and GM are shutting down production lines as employee wages are skyrocketing because of the lack of labour.

"yea and Australia actually had the balls to say no to Kyoto because they know a growing economy cannot live up to emissions regulations drawn up decades ago. But not Canada is more concerned with trying to look "not American" and be the little darling of the world....even if we were to do better under a MADE IN CANADA plan, the left wing idiots would still bitch and whine that we are becoming a Neo-Con country. WHAT HAPPEND TO THIS COUNTRY!!!"

Actually, we support Kyoto because we aren't kidding ourselves about climate change. Our polititions realize, as well as a lot of citizens, that we are poisoning our planet and disrupting the homeostasis. Our polution is going to kill us if we don't get it in check real soon. This winter we didn't even get a single -30C day here in Edmonton, and I have green grass on my front lawn. In Euorope, they're finally seeing the effects from the slowing of the North Atlantic current, and are currently starting to see the beginnings of a Mini European ice age. The reason is that the north atlantic current is a convection current triggered by cool water in the north, and warm water from the tropics. Warm water is drawn up from the tropics as it moves toward the cold, and it's this warm water that heats the weather systems in Europe that gives them their mild winters. As the current slows, the ocean cools in the north and the weather systems become increasingly colder. The current has slowed by 30% in the last 30 years, and we have no clue what percentage it can slow before it changes course. If we keep going for another 20 years like this, Europe will experience arctic conditions that would kill, or make certain crops unviable.
If the decision were up to me, we'd stop production tomorrow, and move into a damage control situation. Let's see if the US is still tooting the same horn in the next three years when they start experiencing the most powerful and reoccuring hurricanes in history. Climate change is a real problem, and loss of profits is hardly the concern when we could lose everything in the end. Quit reading the News, and start reading the studies being put forth by our enironmental scientists, and see if you aren't worried.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
I've heard this one before, but it was about the US. It's probably just a fill in the blank type form. I would appreciate an Australian opinion on this more if it was actually in an original letter.
 

Virtual Burlesque

Nominee Member
Feb 19, 2005
55
0
6
Ontario
Re: RE: Australians Have it Right?

tracy said:
I've heard this one before, but it was about the US. It's probably just a fill in the blank type form. I would appreciate an Australian opinion on this more if it was actually in an original letter.

I am not Australian, but that is an interesting question.

It caused me to do a little search to fill in for my possibly faulty memory.

The originally quoted article (it appears in several version all over the web) states:

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE"."


My problem was not being able to recall any Canadian, British, or Australian Pledge of Allegiance, only the US one.

Canada, Britain and Australia have Oaths of Allegiance taken as the final step when an immigrant acquires citizenship. These are commonly called Oaths of Citizenship, but they are not a pledge that is routinely recited by citizens on general occasions.

The United States has an Oath of Citizenship for immigrants, as well as a Pledge of Allegiance recited frequently at public occasions (at the beginning of the school day) by citizens.


Going further, I encountered this exchange in the June 24, 2004 New South Wales Legislative Council Hansard :

The Hon. MICHAEL EGAN: You do not sing the national anthem every minute of the day, or even every day of the week. One difficulty we as Australians have is that of singing Advance Australia Fair. It is a very difficult song to sing, particularly for someone like me who got thrown out of singing lessons at the age of eight. I simply make the point that I am not sure that the way Americans go about things is the way Australians want to go about things. We have quite a different temperament and culture. Sometimes I find genuine displays of patriotism by Americans a bit over the top and uncomfortable.

The Hon. David Oldfield: Have you got something against something being genuine?

The Hon. MICHAEL EGAN: No, I have not, but it is not our way.

[Interruption]

What I am saying is that it is not our way to have those overt and routine demonstrations of—

The Hon. David Oldfield: Genuineness.

The Hon. MICHAEL EGAN: No, of nationalism. It is not something we do. I do not think we ever will.



Full citation: http://tinyurl.com/angd9

Kind of looks like work of an American forger, who messed up, eh? :lol:
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Re: RE: Australians Have it Right?

Hank C said:
yea and Australia actually had the balls to say no to Kyoto because they know a growing economy cannot live up to emissions regulations drawn up decades ago. But not Canada is more concerned with trying to look "not American" and be the little darling of the world....even if we were to do better under a MADE IN CANADA plan, the left wing idiots would still bitch and whine that we are becoming a Neo-Con country. WHAT HAPPEND TO THIS COUNTRY!!!


If you hate Canada so much you could always take your own advice and leave for the states, all you got to do is get in your pickup and cross the wire and you,ll be in heaven, they,ve got a big army and you can see all the balls your so fond of.What happened to you?
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
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16
Calgary, AB
Re: RE: Australians Have it Right?

darkbeaver said:
If you hate Canada so much you could always take your own advice and leave for the states, all you got to do is get in your pickup and cross the wire and you,ll be in heaven, they,ve got a big army and you can see all the balls your so fond of.What happened to you?

so thats what its come to.....to critisize policy filled with holes, or suggest a stronger military warrants a exodus to the US.
:roll:
 

Alberta'sfinest

Electoral Member
Dec 9, 2005
217
0
16
RE: Australians Have it R

To me the post was merely hate garbage. It's a one-sided argument that is designed to devide us. It's part of an overall agenda that seems to be building quite rapidly these days. We are being fed non-stop media that doesn't straight out tell us to hate, it's just presented in a way that will result in the majority filling in the blank with fascist ideas. When was the last time you saw a video of a nice Iraqi family sitting down to dinner, or having a wedding, or celebrating anything. Or maybe a documentary on middle eastern arts, music, and culture. You won't. The reason is that were being conditioned. The kinds of thoughts in the article that started this thread are the same ones that have bread fascism in the past. The media conditioning is obviousely affective as a number of people on this site agreed with it, although it's total bull. What are we being conditioned for?
War.
They're conditioning us to accept a really big upcoming war which will overshadow WWII. They use little bits of info to get us into a mindset where we will except mass war, as the natural human instinct isn't to kill others. The purpose is to put the enemy in a light where they can be reduced to animals, then it's easier to kill them. The entire Nazi war platform was based around using propaganda to reduce the jewish population to animals, and that's why the soldiers didn't have a problem treating them like animals in the containment camps. They didn't see people, they saw animals. Soldiers lose their entire drive to kill the other side if they are seen as humans, as we would relate to them, and it's harder to kill.
Animal rights activists have been using this tactic, but in the opposite way to humanize animals. I've actually met people who can't eat beef simply because all they see is a cute little cow. I however have been around livestock as a kid and know that a cow is a dumb animal standing in a field with shit all over it. They aren't cute, and they'll kick you in the knees if they get the chance. This is why I see them as nothing more than food. Polar bears and bears in general aren't cute. Deer aren't cute. Moose and elk are very dangerous animals, and even a beaver can kill you.
It takes a damn good reason to kill another human being and only a reason to kill a dangerous animal. Don't be fooled by this type of propaganda, or you may find yourself in the middle of nowhere with an M16 killing innocent people.
Does anyone here know what post traumatic stress disorder really is. It's when your subconscience realizes that you aren't killing an enemy, but you are killing people, people who are just like you and your family. The more petty the reason for the war, the more soldiers who suffer this later on. If you felt truly just in your actions, your conscience would be clear. The biggest part of your training in the army, is to drive out your humanity so that you are capable of killing possibly innocent people. I only kill anything for one reason, to survive.

If that letter was originally an american letter, it doesn't surprise me. I read about a story that was used in Austria about how Gemans were being targeted by immigrants to gain support for Nazi control. Later the same tweaked story was used in Checkoslovakia to do the same thing. By the time the Nazi moved in on those countries, they were greeted by cheering crowds, as they were seen as protectors from foreign dissidents. Swaying public opinion with mass media is like shooting fish in a barrel.
 

Virtual Burlesque

Nominee Member
Feb 19, 2005
55
0
6
Ontario
Re: RE: Australians Have it Right?

Hank C said:
darkbeaver said:
If you hate Canada so much you could always take your own advice and leave for the states, all you got to do is get in your pickup and cross the wire and you,ll be in heaven, they,ve got a big army and you can see all the balls your so fond of.What happened to you?

so thats what its come to.....to critisize policy filled with holes, or suggest a stronger military warrants a exodus to the US.
:roll:
That was what you were advocating to people whose criticism you don't support.

barkbeaver only suggested you put the boot that you have recomended for others on your own foot.

Kinda pinches, don't it.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Australians Have it R

Alberta'sfinest said:
Hank C is a victim of Conservative propaganda. I can dispell everything he just bitched about with simple logic.

Well put down your local Pravda and I will dispell everything you said with simple facts.

Alberta'sfinest said:
"Canada has become nothing more than a "push-over" nation, that believes everyone loves us.....and we define our identity as "not American"."

Maybe it's because the US and Canada are almost identical as societies, but we don't want to be thrown in the same boat because we don't believe in world policing and entering countries without international approval. The US doesn't follow the rules they helped establish, and now can't be trusted. We want to make sure the world sees us as different.

Perhaps you might want to check on Serbia, UN Authorization: No, Canada participation: Yes. You might also like to do what's in your best interests and not make sure the "world" sees you as different, you basically complimented Hank C's post with that statement.

Alberta'sfinest said:
" Its come to the point where if a Christian say god bless Canada he is chastised, yet we protect Tamil Tigers and are not allowed to say anything about muslim extremists."

That's a crock of crap, and we do nothing about the Tamils because of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is the backbone of our society. It's a grey area where the laws aren't clear enough to make arrests. Are hands are tied unless we wish to throw out the most importantant legislation in the history of our nation.

Here's the most recent incident of Tamil Tigers freedom of speech:

January 7, 2006: A suspected LTTE fishing boat loaded with explosives detonates and destroys a Sri Lankan navy boat as it leaves the port of Trincomalee, killing 13 sailors

Alberta'sfinest said:
" We are more worried about a bunch of homosexuals getting married rather than protecting our arctic sovereignty. WHY?....we because military is bad and scary, its something for those evil Americans.....this was proven by the Liberal attack ads during the election."

I don't think equal rights for all citizens that are gaurenteed should even be up for debate because it has no effect on our nation, and it's gaurenteed by our charter of rights and freedoms. Are military isn't bad and scary, what's scary about the word peacekeepers? We also don't require a large army because we have lots of oil that the US wants, and they'll provide all the protection we'll ever need. We are actually expanding are military at the moment but they are having as much trouble recruiting soldiers, as businesses are having finding employees.

Your comment on being world peacekeepers is somewhat of a timeworn myth. You can't even get to your peacekeeping without "Angolian transports". As for Canada having lots of oil the US wants and will provide all the protection you ever need while in the same breath you don't like the policing smells like hypocrisy to me.

Alberta'sfinest said:
"yea and Australia actually had the balls to say no to Kyoto because they know a growing economy cannot live up to emissions regulations drawn up decades ago. But not Canada is more concerned with trying to look "not American" and be the little darling of the world....even if we were to do better under a MADE IN CANADA plan, the left wing idiots would still bitch and whine that we are becoming a Neo-Con country. WHAT HAPPEND TO THIS COUNTRY!!!"

Actually, we support Kyoto because we aren't kidding ourselves about climate change. Our polititions realize, as well as a lot of citizens, that we are poisoning our planet and disrupting the homeostasis. Our polution is going to kill us if we don't get it in check real soon. This winter we didn't even get a single -30C day here in Edmonton, and I have green grass on my front lawn. In Euorope, they're finally seeing the effects from the slowing of the North Atlantic current, and are currently starting to see the beginnings of a Mini European ice age. The reason is that the north atlantic current is a convection current triggered by cool water in the north, and warm water from the tropics. Warm water is drawn up from the tropics as it moves toward the cold, and it's this warm water that heats the weather systems in Europe that gives them their mild winters. As the current slows, the ocean cools in the north and the weather systems become increasingly colder. The current has slowed by 30% in the last 30 years, and we have no clue what percentage it can slow before it changes course. If we keep going for another 20 years like this, Europe will experience arctic conditions that would kill, or make certain crops unviable.

Canada supported Kyoto, and Canada has done next to nothing in terms of Kyoto. If Kyoto was anything other than a money-transfer scheme the US would have went along with it. The only thing your politicians realized is that Kyoto was the popular thing to do, and heaven forbid Canada takes a stance on anything! Please share with us all the success stories we hear in regards to Kyoto. Canadas record on the environment is worse than the US.

Alberta'sfinest said:
If the decision were up to me, we'd stop production tomorrow, and move into a damage control situation. Let's see if the US is still tooting the same horn in the next three years when they start experiencing the most powerful and reoccuring hurricanes in history. Climate change is a real problem, and loss of profits is hardly the concern when we could lose everything in the end. Quit reading the News, and start reading the studies being put forth by our enironmental scientists, and see if you aren't worried.

Well Canadians can thank their lucky stars you aren't in charge, otherwise your call for halting production would throw you back about 100 years. Nobody has ever denied the existance of Global Warming, what is contested are the causes, anthropogenic vs. natural occuring cycle. Since your brilliant politicians have done ZERO towards your Kyoto obligations I would suggest you look inwards before pointing fingers who is tooting their own horns.
 

JoeyB

Electoral Member
Feb 2, 2006
253
0
16
Australia
I think not said:
Huck said:
I think not said:
DasFX said:
This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity

Sounds like one of our neighbors.

what does that mean?

It means Canada is following the same domestic policies as Australia.

What it means is that people are inclined to believe what they read or see in the media, which is sensationalist to say the least.

we have a liberal government. theyre a bunch of hapless freaks with no idea on how to run a country, instead they are political masters, who run campaigns in a similar style to certain american presidents... i.e. saturation of the media, and control of it's key players, through political kickbacks.

Don't kid yourselves. Australia is one fked up country. we have a degenerating healthcare system, a free trade agreement with the US which fks us over constantly, a Prime minister who sucks G.W.'s pecker, a treasurer who is balancing national debt and spiralling inflation by selling off public assets, a health policy that will soon be almost completely collapsed due to non-funding, an immigration policy and department who are not anything other than incompetent, and jail legitimate refugees, and deport it's own citizens. It exports it's criminals to east asian countries, instead of dealing with them on home soil. An education system which is becoming increasingly more expensive, so much so, that we have more full-fee paying international students in our universities than we do subsidised school leaving citizens. an unprotected industrial relations system, promotong slave labour pay rates and unfair working conditions. This is all done, because the current government are looking after their liberal party supporting corporate donors.

Forget national Identity crisis. we have a national debt crisis. Interest rates and spending rates far in excess of our collective incomes.... This is not a country of good govenance, nor is it a well managed country in terms of service delivery, financial stability or protection of it's citizens. a punitive armed forces contingency of about 30,000 full time servicemen and women. yes, our whole army can fit inside the sydney olympic statium with plenty of room to spare.

Somewhere in all of this, we have someone complaining about our lack of national pride and identity, because the government wants it buried, to make us look like an american ally of unwavering conscience, which is complete lunacy, because we need to maintain our own international diplomacy with asian nations who have good reason to despise an interfering US government.

Some things, are better left alone.

like I said before, for those who didnt bother reading, we're not a nation of bigots, we just have a government full of bigots.
Our feelings about national pride are simple. come here, make it your home, but leave your prejudices at the door. we don't want your bad attitude fucking up what is a peaceful, homogenous society with many cultural facets. keep your culture, and display it proudly, and our nation will support you as a proud australian. Don't bring your racial hatred or your religious prejudices with you. thats exactly what we won't tolerate. and that also goes for our own citizens. It's a free country, you're free to come and go as you please, just don't force your minority view on everyone and expect us to to comply.

and we all know thats exactly how every other nation feels about immigrants as a bare minimum. you all understand your own national identity. we respect and accept your views when in your country, and we expect the same in return.

So I am suggesting not everything is roses. our people just adapt like we have always done since some pompous british monarch thought it would be a good idea to invade and take over our continent and ethnically cleanse it, like they did in most of the pacific, and also america. Just like the spaniards, the french and germans, the chinese,dutch,italians, japanese and most every other race have tried on some other continent or island in centuries past. Noone is innocent here. the human race has been at this since it's conception. the difference is it has become more refined and sharply focused over millions of years.

Noone's got 'IT' right. but we are content with our fairness and equity so far, and we'll make changes to our policies of social acceptance when we see fit as a collective people, not when some immigrant minotiry group or government insist.

This is just a pointless circular argument which will be debated all over the planet for the rest of eternity, and frankly it's pretty pathetic. there are always going to be people who disagree, so just accept that others may or may not be as active as you in expressing their views about the issue, and that people will not always understand your reasoning.

*frustrated* :evil:
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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That was an impressive *frustrated* rant JoeyB, but I think you missed the point of the topic at hand. You are correct about one thing though, it isn't a matter of Australians, Canadians, Americans etc.. getting it right, it's about the consequences of their actions. The point I highlighted was that mutliculturalism is inherently divisive. When you "section" off parts of the population to retain their "identity" then you should expect a multitude of "identities" thet will never become "unified".

You mentioned immigrants checking their prejudices at the door, I agree, but what I or you perceive as a prejudice may be a cultural element of theirs. So in essence you are suggesting they adapt to the Australian way of life and become integrated.

Different cultures represent different systems of meaning and visions of the good life. A multicultural society cannot be stable and last long without developing a common sense of belonging among its citizens. The sense of belonging cannot be ethnic and based on diverse cultures, but must be political, idealogical and based on a shared commitment to the community.

However I think integrating (or assimilation, whatever turns your crank) into society while absorbing other cultures within your own is the strength of societies.

*not frustrated* :p
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
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48
California
I don't see anything wrong with multiculturalism. I'm not less Canadian because I've preserved some of my ancestors traditions. I've also enjoyed the traditions some of my friends' families have maintained (especially the Greeks, cause then I get to have Easter dinner twice:)). There are obviously some areas where new immigrants must assimilate their new country's values and traditions, but they can keep some of their values and traditions as well. This country would be pretty boring if every immigrant tried to Americanize completely.
 

JoeyB

Electoral Member
Feb 2, 2006
253
0
16
Australia
RE: Australians Have it R

I don't entirely agree with your assessment on multiculturalism being inherently divisive, it's the intolerant nature within a portion of a culture, with racist (discriminatory) tendencies, who create problems which make a nation divided. Most people are accepting of others, and even happily curious of other's cultural background, which is exactly what unifies a nation. That word is called 'acceptance' not assimilation.
Assimilation is the political prodigy of governments, who wish to create a society based on their own politically aligned ideology, and that ideology created by party members is not representative always of the people the government represents.

Let's look at hmm, say... pre WW2 Germany (Hitler) for an example. Assimilation? you betcha, so long as you weren't Jewish, because that meant Anti-semitism (nuremburg laws). We could look at mexican and puerto-rican immigration into the U.S. and find similar problems, not discounting the Constitutional promotion of black slavery, and the escape clauses of the southern states.. (Don't mess with Texas, right?) and in the case of european settlement in all 3 of our nations, a mandatory extermination of all native inhabitants who posed a 'threat' to the new colonies.
Australian society is multicultural, at least it has been for all of my life, and everyone here is accepting of each other, embraces the unique cultures of other individuals, shares and promotes them as part of their own, and collectively as a nation; 'self-integration' for want of a more appropriate term.
I grew up in a Chinese migrant neighbourhood, and I am about as 'euro-decended' as you can get. to me noone was 'chinese' they were australian, and all of our families shared our cultural heritage freely and without prejudice. I believe I am better for it, regardless of what others think. There was and is no 'sectioning off' either culturally or spatially. So in that respect, I think maybe there is something else for you to understand about our country.

everyone came here for a reason, and it wasnt to perpetuate racial superiority, exclusivity or intolerance. And thats how our version of assimilation works.

I'm sorry if it doesn't meet your perception of a good and wholesome society.

The only problem in a multicultural society is one of racial intolerance, Intolerance causes division, and not everyone is intolerant, so it cannot be said therefore to be inherently divisive.

Like I said in my post, 'And when you come to this country, you are expected to leave your racial prejudice behind'.

I can't make it any clearer than that.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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"That was an impressive *frustrated* rant JoeyB, but I think you missed the point of the topic at hand. You are correct about one thing though, it isn't a matter of Australians, Canadians, Americans etc.. getting it right, it's about the consequences of their actions. The point I highlighted was that mutliculturalism is inherently divisive. When you "section" off parts of the population to retain their "identity" then you should expect a multitude of "identities" thet will never become "unified"."








I think JoeyB,s comments were impressive, not at all a frustrated rant. Multiculturalism is inherantly complex, divisivness is only a symtom to be adjusted for. Unified identities is for ants not for
people.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
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The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Australians Have it Right?

tracy said:
I don't see anything wrong with multiculturalism. I'm not less Canadian because I've preserved some of my ancestors traditions. I've also enjoyed the traditions some of my friends' families have maintained (especially the Greeks, cause then I get to have Easter dinner twice:)). There are obviously some areas where new immigrants must assimilate their new country's values and traditions, but they can keep some of their values and traditions as well. This country would be pretty boring if every immigrant tried to Americanize completely.

And I have no problem with multiculturalism the way you describe it, which in essence is integration. Maintaining traditions that eventually become part of society is a wonderful thing.

But that's not multiculturalism, now is it? Even the Ministry of Multiculturalism defines multiculturalism as:

What is Multiculturalism?
Canadian multiculturalism is fundamental to our belief that all citizens are equal. Multiculturalism ensures that all citizens can keep their identities, can take pride in their ancestry and have a sense of belonging. Acceptance gives Canadians a feeling of security and self-confidence, making them more open to, and accepting of, diverse cultures. The Canadian experience has shown that multiculturalism encourages racial and ethnic harmony and cross-cultural understanding, and discourages ghettoization, hatred, discrimination and violence.

Through multiculturalism, Canada recognizes the potential of all Canadians, encouraging them to integrate into their society and take an active part in its social, cultural, economic and political affairs.

http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/multi/what-multi_e.cfm

In other words, maintaining traditions (sometimes local traditions are mixed) doesn't constitute multiculturalism, it is integration that will result into a unified society. And And by unified, I mean politicial and idealogical commons.
 

Doryman

Electoral Member
Nov 30, 2005
435
2
18
St. John's
the caracal kid said:
"



Gays and Christians, Tamil Tigers and terrorists: the root issue is humanity. Canadians want tolorance and respect for all as equals. Now those that are in a position of privilage out of history naturally see the balancing of peoples as an infringement on them since they are now percieving a loss of their own "special status". We are all the same so any laws/mores that counter that need to be removed and Canadians recognize that. The Tigers have committed far less bloodshed than christians, but then again justification lies in perspective.

Yes. They have. Christian's were a horrible violent bloodthirsty people a few hundred years ago. The Tamils are problematic and violent now. How about we try to fix the problem that doesn't lie in the past, hmm?

Power: Canada never was a power! We are a miniscule population spread over a vast territory. Our reputation must be build upon strengths reflective of this. We will have more respect for being a small armed nation that works for peaceful solutions than as a rediculously armed nation (for our size) pretending to throw some military might around. Sadly, man still has not evolved much beyond walking upright and this is reflective in the attitudes of those calling for more weapons rather than less.

Canada was pretty powerful after the Second World War. Having the 4th largest Navy, and 4th largest Air Force in the world, as well as a booming economy and a respected place in world affairs. Of course power is not defined by military might, economy or influence. it's defined by a religious devotion to Political Correctness and a visceral aversion to any type of conflict, ever.

Do Australians have it right?
NO. Canada and Australia are lands of immigrants. These immigrants that are part of the ongoing development of the cultures. All we are really seeing is a whining from the intolorant who see "their culture" changing or being marginalized. Canada is adapting and growing. Its people need to do the same.

Yes, but is Canada growing into something better than what it was or worse? Keep in mind that these original immigrants that came to Canada built a nation that is now a beacon of civilization in our world. The Canada they built is peaceful, the citizens educated, well-taken care of and fairly well-to-do. They immigrated here and built A fine Country. Naturally, they'll feel threatened when something they created is being taken over by people who think radically different than them. It's mostly paranoia, but can you really say that it isn't justifiable paranoia?

Who did a better job building a country, those who built Canada or those who built Sudan? The loss of the Canada that we know is a justifiable fear, paranoid or not.
 

Alberta'sfinest

Electoral Member
Dec 9, 2005
217
0
16
RE: Australians Have it R

"Perhaps you might want to check on Serbia, UN Authorization: No, Canada participation: Yes. You might also like to do what's in your best interests and not make sure the "world" sees you as different, you basically complimented Hank C's post with that statement. "

The difference is that we went their to stop bloodshed. I believe that we were also invited by Bosnia to keep the peace in their country, and to aid them in finding a resolution with the aggressive serb forces.
The US invaded a country without being invited, with a purpose of starting a war, not stopping a war, based on lies and deception. The US recieved a giant black eye by attacking Iraq under such circumstances, and we were praised for our missions in the balcans. We didn't go against the UN, the UN didn't send us either, and we gained nothing from the war. The US went into Iraq to eliminate a economic threat, not a military threat. If the US gave a damn about Iraqi's, they wouldn't have started killing them in the first place.

"Here's the most recent incident of Tamil Tigers freedom of speech:

January 7, 2006: A suspected LTTE fishing boat loaded with explosives detonates and destroys a Sri Lankan navy boat as it leaves the port of Trincomalee, killing 13 sailors"

What I meant is that they aren't doing anything in our country. We also have no evidence which is required to make an arrest and charge people. See, in Canada we have something called the criminal justice system, not like the American justice system which allows indefinite imprisonment "suspected" terrorists in secret prisons and not so secret prisons without due process. This is why we want to make that not American distinction between our countries.

"Your comment on being world peacekeepers is somewhat of a timeworn myth. You can't even get to your peacekeeping without "Angolian transports". As for Canada having lots of oil the US wants and will provide all the protection you ever need while in the same breath you don't like the policing smells like hypocrisy to me."

That's not policing, that's using resources as leverage so that we can use your soldiers as our human shield. Why would we risk our own lives when we can risk yours? We have no objections to sitting back from major conflict providing your necessary supply lines. Our peacekeepers are still effective despite using other countries transports. Our visible army is also very deceptive, and our true military power is kept underground in the North. We built the best supersonic fighter interceptor in the 50's that no other country has been able to replicate, did you think we quit developing military technology? Our strength lies in others lack of information. Anyone remember the 2 billion dollar gun registry that was only supposed to cost 2 million? Can you say military funding in disguise. We also have a nuclear program that doesn't exist.

"Canada supported Kyoto, and Canada has done next to nothing in terms of Kyoto. If Kyoto was anything other than a money-transfer scheme the US would have went along with it. The only thing your politicians realized is that Kyoto was the popular thing to do, and heaven forbid Canada takes a stance on anything! Please share with us all the success stories we hear in regards to Kyoto. Canadas record on the environment is worse than the US."

Canada's record isn't worse than the US if you base it on landmass, and not production per capita. The US produces almost 10 times what we do in greenhouse gas emmisions. Canada is so damn big that we can produce more emmissions than you because we have more space to do it. We also have the Boreal forest which can handle more CO2 than we could ever produce. The only thing us Canadians need to do is reduce the pollution in our major cities. Go anywhere and in Canada other than a major city and all you find is clean air and pristine wilderness. We support Kyoto because despite our relatively low pollution levels and fairly good air quality, the atmosphere is heating up and there are patches of grass on my lawn in february, when it should be 4 feet of snow like when I was a kid.
The jokes on you guys, we haven't cut our production of gases yet because oil is going to skyrocket in the next 3-5 years which will reduce the demand and production of the goods which have the emissions as byproducts. High prices of resources will naturally reduce our outputs, so were just waiting for it to happen while making as much money as possible until it does. It may suprise you, but if the average american quit buying all the plastic junk and useless crap that fuels capitalism, our emissions would be cut, as most of our emissions are created from the products we sell primarily to your country.