Arguments For and Against Human-Induced Ocean Warming

[Locutus]

Ocean heat content and vertically averaged temperature data for the oceans have been the subjects of a couple of recent blog posts. As one might expect, the discussions on those threads tend to shift to the subject of whether or not the infrared (longwave) radiation from manmade greenhouse gases can cause any measureable ocean warming at the surface or at depth. According to the hypothesis of human-induced global warming, the warming of the global oceans to depth and the related ocean heat uptake are a function of the radiative imbalance caused by manmade greenhouse gases. There are a number of arguments for and against the hypothetical anthropogenic warming of the oceans.

So the topic of this post is ocean warming. I’ll present different opinions/arguments on anthropogenic ocean warming.

For a detailed overview of ocean heat content data, please see the post Is Ocean Heat Content Data All It’s Stacked Up to Be? And see the post AMAZING: The IPCC May Have Provided Realistic Presentations of Ocean Heat Content Source Data for another discussion by the IPCC.

INFRARED RADIATION CAN ONLY PENETRATE THE TOP FEW MILLIMETERS OF THE OCEAN SURFACE AND THAT’S WHERE EVAPORATION TAKES PLACE

It is often argued that infrared radiation from manmade greenhouse gases can only penetrate the top few millimeters of the ocean surface and that’s where evaporation occurs. That argument then continues that additional infrared radiation from anthropogenic greenhouse gases can only add to surface evaporation, and cannot heat the oceans. On the other hand, sunlight reaches into the oceans to depths of 100 meters or so, though most of it is absorbed in the top 10 meters. Even so, sunlight’s ability to warm the oceans is many orders of magnitude greater than infrared radiation. One of my earliest memories of this argument came from Robert E. Stevenson’s (Oceanographer Scripps) 2000 article Yes, the Ocean Has Warmed; No, It’s Not ‘Global Warming’. In April of this year, looking for solid answers on this topic, Roy Spencer presented the same arguments and a few counter arguments in his post, Can Infrared Radiation Warm a Water Body?

Field tests reported in the 2006 post Why greenhouse gases warm the oceans at RealClimate are often cited by those who believe infrared radiation is responsible for ocean warming. That guest post by Peter Minnett of the University of Miami includes:

However, some have insisted that there is a paradox here – how can a forcing driven by longwave absorption and emission impact the ocean below since the infrared radiation does not penetrate more than a few micrometers into the ocean?
​

So this argument was considered by climate scientists. The post then goes on to describe why it’s not an inconsistency and then to present the results of field tests. My Figure 1 is Figure 2 from that RealClimate post.


the rest


Arguments For and Against Human-Induced Ocean Warming | Watts Up With That?

 

[MHz]

One could always take the expansion rate of all of the oceans rifts and use the depth as the 'available energy' and the amount released is what it would take to turn molten rock into solidified rock. There are about 40,000 kms (or was it miles) of rifting crust that spreads at the rate a fingernail grows. If that rate is doubled every year for 10 years how much extra heat has been pumped into the oceans waters? the expansion rate might even be figured out just my the monthly number of volcanoes that go off and locations would be where the spreading is the fastest as that would be where the most pressure was built up.

I think the time to be worried is when the volcanoes stop and they turn into sink holes and the rifts start to implode and sink towards the core, that is when the weather will be experiences 'changes'.

 

[55Mercury]

I pissed in the ocean once.

 

[waldo]

oh Locutus you! I should have known renowned charlatan 'Bob Tisdale' would be one of your go-to guys. Locutus... ever wonder why Tisdale has never bothered to publish his scientific wisdom... never even tried to formally challenge an actual scientific paper? Have you ever read the actual quote from Tisdale himself about why he doesn't publish? It's a hoot... a real hoot! :mrgreen:

 

[petros]

Tisdale is only referring to the work of others.

Why can't alarmist keep the story straight?

Like the warming pause. Elite IPCC Climate Scientist Dr. Mojib Latif says the pause could last 30 years, yet there is no pause because the IPCC says so.

Who is right? IPCC upper echelon climate scientist Dr. Mojib Latif or is the IPCC right?

 

[waldo]

Tisdale is a hack... and he most certainly creates/states his own "interpretations"; those that he foments on denier blogs. Blogs... but never, ever, ever has he tried to bring that BS of his forward in formal journals to presume to challenge actual scientists, actual publications.

the IPCC does not have its own scientists... there is no such thing as an "IPCC scientist" let alone your 'elite' tag emphasis. Most of the percolated media hype on Latif reflects upon a 2007 study of his... where he went so far as to suggest surface temperatures might remain steady until 2015... with no prediction beyond 2015. Radical... hardly, although predicting anything on such a short time frame is questionable! In recent comment he continues to offer suggestion that natural variability may continue to influence a lessening of the rate of warming. However... then (2007) and now (current)... Latif based his findings/comment on his interpretations of the models he chose to work with. Models! Hey petros, aren't you the guy forever bemoaning the inability of models to properly predict? And yet... you clearly want to select and ride the wave with Latif's model based findings/comment! Go figure.

again, even isolating to surface temperature only (without regard to ocean warming), even aligning with the cherry-picked, significantly anomalous 97/98 Enso endpoint..... no pause:

​

notwithstanding 2014 is expected to take over as the warmest year on record, you're making your claim while somehow ignoring that the warmest years on record have all been in the relatively recent years. The 'Top 10' warmest years on record:

=> 2010, 2005, 1998, 2013, 2003, 2002, 2006, 2009, 2007, 2004, 2012
​

just for funzies, let's have a look at some heightened "pause" cherry-picking... like you're engaged in!

 

[taxslave]

Oh goody another graph by the village shill. So how is it that anyone that disagrees with your preconceived notions is a hack and any doofus that says we are burning up is a messiah?
Does the globull warming industry pay you by the line or number of graphs?

 

[petros]

Tisdale is a hack... and he most certainly creates/states his own "interpretations"; those that he foments on denier blogs. Blogs... but never, ever, ever has he tried to bring that BS of his forward in formal journals to presume to challenge actual scientists, actual publications.

the IPCC does not have its own scientists... there is no such thing as an "IPCC scientist" let alone your 'elite' tag emphasis. Most of the percolated media hype on Latif reflects upon a 2007 study of his... where he went so far as to suggest surface temperatures might remain steady until 2015... with no prediction beyond 2015. Radical... hardly, although predicting anything on such a short time frame is questionable! In recent comment he continues to offer suggestion that natural variability may continue to influence a lessening of the rate of warming. However... then (2007) and now (current)... Latif based his findings/comment on his interpretations of the models he chose to work with. Models! Hey petros, aren't you the guy forever bemoaning the inability of models to properly predict? And yet... you clearly want to select and ride the wave with Latif's model based findings/comment! Go figure.

again, even isolating to surface temperature only (without regard to ocean warming), even aligning with the cherry-pick kmed, significantly anomalous 97/98 Enso endpoint..... no pause:

​

notwithstanding 2014 is expected to take over as the warmest year on record, you're making your claim while somehow ignoring that the warmest years on record have all been in the relatively recent years. The 'Top 10' warmest years on record:

=> 2010, 2005, 1998, 2013, 2003, 2002, 2006, 2009, 2007, 2004, 2012
​

just for funzies, let's have a look at some heightened "pause" cherry-picking... like you're engaged in!

Not a week goes by without Mojib Latif appearing in the media. On September 29,*2014 the climate preacher appeared in α-Forum at Bavarian Radio. The pdf of the show is here. Interestingly in the interview Latif extends the warming pause to 2020 and even 2025. That’s another 11 years, which will easily take him well into retirement. Latif is a clever one. What follows is an excerpt from the interview:

BR: Curiously it is indeed despite the rise in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and also in the seas – we’ll talk more about this in more detail later – the global temperature has not risen lately. How does one explain this?

Latif: Well, this is really nothing unusual. That does not surprise climate scientists like me at all, as for us this is completely normal. When one takes a look at the development since 1900, that is the last 110 years, then we see that it has not always gone up. Rather it has progressed in waves. This is why it is necessary to look at long time periods. If we look at the entire time period, then it is impossible to miss seeing the rise. In 2008 in the journal “Nature” I myself predicted the pause: Back then it created a huge echo in the global media. I’m wondering why all of this seems to have been forgotten in the meantime.

BR: The reaction was also that some said that the thing with climate change indeed could not be so bad if the annual mean temperature also dropped again..

Latif: The reaction went in every direction. The reaction was, as you just formulated: ‘Everything can’t be so bad!’ But there was also great amazement that the temperature rise is not continuing even though greenhouse gases keep rising. In this study I expressly said that it does not mean that it’s all over, but that the temperature increase will rise even faster –*starting in 2020, 2025.”

 

[Zipperfish]

Hmmm. Lots of people will be astounded to find out that there infrared cooking plates do not heat water!

 

[petros]

Hmmm. Lots of people will be astounded to find out that there infrared cooking plates do not heat water!

The pot does.

 

[waldo]

taxi! Here taxi, here taxi... taxi! C'mon now... here it is! Here taxi, here taxi! Special for you... just for you taxi... your nemesis! Another graph taxi... another one! :mrgreen:

​