Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

Nick Danger

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Jul 21, 2013
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While God is the Absolute Truth: the Creator.

I can agree with that. All this had to come from somewhere. The point is that "somewhere" is an unknown at this point, as is the true nature of "God". "God" is simply a name given to the unknown, the undiscovered.

The Quran, The Bible, The Kabbalah, and countless others, all penned by human hand. That's not to say that there isn't wisdom in those pages, quite the contrary, but they are no more the "word of God" than what you and I are writing here.
 
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Corduroy

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Feb 9, 2011
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Are all believers in God automatically idol worshipers?

All believers in God are following an entity that they only know by what other people have said about that God. Few, if any, know their God from apotheosis or first-hand information.

That fact makes whoever that God is, an idol.

It must be so, as what is believed is not a known or real entity. Believers have no real or personal knowledge or experience of their God. All a believer can have is faith in whichever God they are idolizing based on what others have said.

Do you, as a believer, recognize that you are an idol worshiper?

Regards
DL


Isn't an idol a representation of God or some other figure? I can how you might say that worshiping a god you haven't witnessed first hand is like worshiping a representation and thus an idol. But even if you have witnessed god first hand, subsequent worship would also be worshiping a representation. In that case it would be the representation of your experience in your memory. And if you really want to deconstruct it, worshiping something right in front of you would also be worshiping a representation, as all experience is filtered through your perceptions, or reflections thereof. That would make all forms of worship idol worshiping and then there would be no point in making the difference. What conditions would true non-idol worship have to meet? It would be impossible if it didn't include this abstract definition of idol worship, which would be a contradiction, so idol worship cannot mean what you say it means.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
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God is your beginning and your end. But wait there's more, what you failed to do here you will be pressed to complete in your next post. None of us can escape by the expediant of material death.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Talk like that will get you a Coors Light.:)

Talk lik,e what? I can change with instruction, to be right all I need is the manual. You got my address. Mention money please.

I understand you want to take over the world, a lofty atventure, If I could help in anyway, let me know

When God tires of holding you in his arms yo0u are for transformation, plant food if you;re lucky

What will grow on you? Make a garden, feed yourself according to your responsibilities to the green stuff what will process you, make them happy or come back to the valley of the shadow of death.
 

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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The thinking and reason cannot comprehend His essence, but only we may know something about His greatness and might.

.


To know is to comprehend.


You say you cannot comprehend God then turn around and show what you comprehend of God.


Give your head a shake.


Either you can comprehend or not. You cannot say you cannot and that you can in the same breath.


Regards
DL

While God is the Absolute Truth: the Creator. .


You wrote in your other post that we could not comprehend or know God.


How then can you know what you say here about God is true?


You cannot.


Regards
DL



Isn't an idol a representation of God or some other figure? I can how you might say that worshiping a god you haven't witnessed first hand is like worshiping a representation and thus an idol. But even if you have witnessed god first hand, subsequent worship would also be worshiping a representation. In that case it would be the representation of your experience in your memory. And if you really want to deconstruct it, worshiping something right in front of you would also be worshiping a representation, as all experience is filtered through your perceptions, or reflections thereof. That would make all forms of worship idol worshiping and then there would be no point in making the difference. What conditions would true non-idol worship have to meet? It would be impossible if it didn't include this abstract definition of idol worship, which would be a contradiction, so idol worship cannot mean what you say it means.

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The definition of idol is a rather subjective and from that perspective, some will agree with my use of the word while some will not.


You are correct about it all happening in our minds. Most believers will not admit that they are idol worshiping the mental construct that they have invented for themselves from the words of other people and not of anything of a real God.


The only way to get past idol worship is to worship a real and present God. That is the only way to adore or believe in a real God who is not an idol but is real. Even a real and present God that is idolized will be called an idol by some just as we now name performers idols.


Regards
DL

















I understand you want to take over the world, a lofty atventure, If I could help in anyway, let me know

.







Every male should be pushing himself, with Jung and Freud's Father Complex, to become the greatest Alpha Male of the world.


That is evolution at work.


Regards
DL
 

selfsame

Time Out
Jul 13, 2015
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Darkbungchute, what in the flying frig, are you blathering aboot?

Even if darkbeaver is a Jew or a Christian (he may be), but certainly he is not the Ugly Zionist like Ludlow.
Therefore, to compare darkbeaver to Ludlow is like comparing the high to the low. :laughing6:

=======================================================

So here, the French patriot as he called himself, pretends to be free thinker and therefore he denies the existence of God All-Mighty and Most Gracious.
And then he went further to look to others from his high place as he imagines.

French patriot, you are wrong and you are a falsehood follower.
So speak clearly and ask direct questions one by one so that one may answer your inquiries or objections.
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
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Vancouver, BC
The definition of idol is a rather subjective and from that perspective, some will agree with my use of the word while some will not.

If there is a divine definition of idol, then it isn't subjective. And whether you believe in the divine or not, if you're asking people that do believe, by their definition they are not idol worshiping. The debate is a non-starter.

The only way to get past idol worship is to worship a real and present God. That is the only way to adore or believe in a real God who is not an idol but is real. Even a real and present God that is idolized will be called an idol by some just as we now name performers idols.

Then if God is omnipresent there is no idol worship.
 

selfsame

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Most people want some objective thing: material that they want to sanctify and worship: therefore, this is the basis of the idolatry.

Most people do not believe in God unless they associate others beside Him, so this is the basis of the idolatry and the enthusiasm about their religious men and chiefs lead them (by the persuasion of Satan) to sanctify the religious men and the chiefs ... so as to fall in the idolatry or the association with God.

An incident:
When the children of Israel crossed the sea together with Moses ... by a miracle that was so marvelous and they saw with their own eyes the drowning of Pharaoh and his host ... they came to pass by a people worshiping some idols, and the children of Israel said to Moses: Assign to us some idols which we may worship like these people worshiping their idols.

Moses was surprised: he said to them: How can I assign to you any god other than God Almighty Who has just saved you and drowned your enemy!?

A similar incident occurred in the time of Prophet Mohammed:
People came to pass by a tree which the idolaters used to sanctify and seek blessing by taking some bands of clothes, tying them to that tree then tying such bands to their weapons.
They said: God's messenger, assign for us a tree like this so that we may take bands to our weapons!
The Prophet cried: Allahu Akbar! Such was the doing of the past nations before you; this is what the children of Israel demanded of their prophet Moses. (And in his absence they worshiped the statue of the gold calf.)

This is in the Quran 7: 138-139, which mean:
{138. And We took the children of Israel across the sea a, and they came to a people who were devoted to some idols which they had.
The [children of Israel] said: "O Moses, make for us a god
b, even as they have gods c." [Moses] said: "You are surely a people ignorant [about God and His might.]"

139. "Certainly, the work d of these [idolaters] will lead to destruction e, and all that they are doing is in vain f."

140. [Moses] said: "Shall I seek for you a god other than God when He has favored you [with excess bounties and surplus] above all peoples of the world?"}
.......................................................................

a i.e. We made for them a road in it, and they crossed.

b Which we should worship.

c Which they worship.

d i.e. the idol worship.

e It means: they are going to be destroyed because of such act of theirs.

f They will not be rewarded for it, but will be punished and will lose.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.
 
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Ludlow

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Even if darkbeaver is a Jew or a Christian (he may be), but certainly he is not the Ugly Zionist like Ludlow.
Therefore, to compare darkbeaver to Ludlow is like comparing the high to the low. :laughing6:

=======================================================

So here, the French patriot as he called himself, pretends to be free thinker and therefore he denies the existence of God All-Mighty and Most Gracious.
And then he went further to look to others from his high place as he imagines.

French patriot, you are wrong and you are a falsehood follower.
So speak clearly and ask direct questions one by one so that one may answer your inquiries or objections.
Shet you festering maggot bed Selfstink. You know nothing. And take out the garbage whilst ye at it. It's in yo shoes.
 

selfsame

Time Out
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This is the song of Ludlow the Ugly Zionist:

U R Ludlow, U R Azs
U always eats green grazs

(Clap hands and repeat the rhythm) :wav:

U R Ludlow, U R Azs
U always eats green grazs

:laughing6: :laughing6:
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
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@ selfsame: I find it interesting that for one who professes to be close to God you find it so easy to cast aside love and compassion in favour of insult and ridicule. Is your religion one of convenience?
 

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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French patriot, you are wrong and you are a falsehood follower.
So speak clearly and ask direct questions one by one so that one may answer your inquiries or objections.



Ok.


Why do Muslims not follow the tenet of doing unto others?


For instance, Muslim women's testimony is only worth 1/2 that of men under Sharia.


For instance, men are allowed more than one wife yet women are only allowed one husband.


Why are both sexes not equal under Sharia and Islam?


Let us all see if you are up to as direct an answer as my direct questions.


Regards
DL

Then if God is omnipresent there is no idol worship.



True. Do you see God everywhere?


If so, welcome to Gnostic Christian thinking.


Regards
DL

 

Tecumsehsbones

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@ selfsame: I find it interesting that for one who professes to be close to God you find it so easy to cast aside love and compassion in favour of insult and ridicule. Is your religion one of convenience?
No, his religion is a fairy tale and revenge fantasy. It deliberately splits the world into "us" and "them," and declares that the Big Guy in the Sky will take all of "us" to an everlasting party with candy and ice cream and virgins to rape, and said BGitS will torture all of "them" forever.

The laughable part isn't that it's a fairy tale and revenge fantasy, it's how ridiculously juvenile it is.
 

French Patriot

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Sep 17, 2012
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@ selfsame: I find it interesting that for one who professes to be close to God you find it so easy to cast aside love and compassion in favour of insult and ridicule. Is your religion one of convenience?


I think that most religions are religions of convenience.


That is why this type of map can exist.




Regards
DL

No, his religion is a fairy tale and revenge fantasy. It deliberately splits the world into "us" and "them," and declares that the Big Guy in the Sky will take all of "us" to an everlasting party with candy and ice cream and virgins to rape, and said BGitS will torture all of "them" forever.

The laughable part isn't that it's a fairy tale and revenge fantasy, it's how ridiculously juvenile it is.

Not to argue but it is not rape.


All those virgins are supposed to be all wet and bothered and ready for their big stud and his ever-hard and ever-ready, eh, ego.


Regards
DL
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Not to argue but it is not rape.


All those virgins are supposed to be all wet and bothered and ready for their big stud and his ever-hard and ever-ready, eh, ego.


Regards
DL
I won't debate it, surely not this close to supper time. The idea of selfie's hot throbbing ego's enough to put a man off his feed.
 

French Patriot

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I won't debate it, surely not this close to supper time. The idea of selfie's hot throbbing ego's enough to put a man off his feed.



I hear and agree.


Let's see if he even answers my last to him on equality.


Mind you, I think women are mature and wise enough to never want a bunch of virgin men.


Only the immature or immoral would want more than there fair share.


Regards
DL
 

Tecumsehsbones

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I hear and agree.


Let's see if he even answers my last to him on equality.


Mind you, I think women are mature and wise enough to never want a bunch of virgin men.


Only the immature or immoral would want more than there fair share.


Regards
DL
I don't think the virgin thing applies to women. Sounds kinda horrible. What kinda paradise would it be with a bunch of One Direction and Menudo and Backstreet Boys panting for poontang?