Anti HST Campaign hits referendum threshold

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
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Vernon, B.C.
I think the main reason for the apathy in Ontario is that Ontario is a manufacturing based province and they get a huge break. Of course what they don't see it just more B.S., another hideous tax- albeit slightly less nauseating than income tax.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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Ontario
SJ, I would say there has been a reaction by citizens considering the bribe the government has offered in order to placate people. Something like $1200 deductible on a tax return.

If you asked people, I assume they would say they don’t like it. However, I haven’t seen any organized opposition, any petition drive, any grassroots movement like they have in BC.

It may be that the tax break muted any possible organized opposition.
 

ansutherland

Electoral Member
Jun 24, 2010
192
2
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I just find it funny that everyone seems to weight the opinions of everyone equally on this matter. Vanderzan is a politician, not an economist, and yet people listen. I have yet to hear of any economists saying nay to the HST. And even if some did, the consensus from the EXPERTS would be in support for it. For those that do not support it, have you endevoured to read anything from Business Week, Fortune, The Economist? Probably not. Often it's the case that someone comes to your home and asks that you sign the petition.....you unobjectively think it over, and sign it. The result, most people are far to uninformed to have a say in issues such as this!
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
I just find it funny that everyone seems to weight the opinions of everyone equally on this matter. Vanderzan is a politician, not an economist, and yet people listen. I have yet to hear of any economists saying nay to the HST. And even if some did, the consensus from the EXPERTS would be in support for it. For those that do not support it, have you endevoured to read anything from Business Week, Fortune, The Economist? Probably not. Often it's the case that someone comes to your home and asks that you sign the petition.....you unobjectively think it over, and sign it. The result, most people are far to uninformed to have a say in issues such as this!

It is just fashionable in some circles to grumble, to bitch about any tax, it is a knee jerk reaction.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
36
48
Toronto
Since BC has a referendum power to cancel the HST because they would have to pay taxes on everything then why I mean really, why don't they cancel the whole PST then all they would have to pay is the GST
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Since BC has a referendum power to cancel the HST because they would have to pay taxes on everything then why I mean really, why don't they cancel the whole PST then all they would have to pay is the GST

BC does NOT have referendum power to cancel anything. The referendum is non binding.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
I just find it funny that everyone seems to weight the opinions of everyone equally on this matter. Vanderzan is a politician, not an economist, and yet people listen. I have yet to hear of any economists saying nay to the HST. And even if some did, the consensus from the EXPERTS would be in support for it. For those that do not support it, have you endevoured to read anything from Business Week, Fortune, The Economist? Probably not. Often it's the case that someone comes to your home and asks that you sign the petition.....you unobjectively think it over, and sign it. The result, most people are far to uninformed to have a say in issues such as this!

Well, I just solved another very small piece of the puzzle today. I was into the safety supply store buying traffic triangle flares. I was told there was no P.S.T. on them being a safety item, so I asked if there would be H.S.T. next week and the answer was YES. So far there IS probably no definitive answer to this- it will depend on what you buy and how much, but I have the distinct feeling most people are going to get screwed.

It is just fashionable in some circles to grumble, to bitch about any tax, it is a knee jerk reaction.

Another crassly ignorant response- it's not fashionable at all, it just takes food off some people's tables......................:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
 

ansutherland

Electoral Member
Jun 24, 2010
192
2
18
Just a quick question. Can anyone provide any evidence from a reputable economist or something published in anything resembling peer reviewed that denounces a VAT. Most advanced economies have it, maybe it's time we just accept it. As for the increase in cost of living, well that is possibly one of the initial consequences. A longer term consequence howevers is lower input costs for manufacurers, thus reducing the costs of goods.

And, lets just assume for the sake of argument that the government really was trying to make more money off us. Given that fact that we have an aging population with growing healthcare concerns, and the fact that no one wants to give anything up, such as CPP or maternity or EI, then would it not be prudent for the government to try and make a little extra to pay for all this stuff. Social programs don't grow on trees ya know.


Good article!:canada:

An interesting point I forgot to mention earlier but that the article does go into,,,,,I think ( I have not read the whole thing yet ) is that the year after the Atlantic provinces harmonized there was an 11% increase in per capita investment from private industry.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
Reputable economists? Very funny. They are mostly all full of sh*t and will tell you what you want to hear. Just read the ones that make you feel better.
 

ansutherland

Electoral Member
Jun 24, 2010
192
2
18
Reputable economists? Very funny. They are mostly all full of sh*t and will tell you what you want to hear. Just read the ones that make you feel better.


Gimme one example. And why is it they are just telling me what I want to hear? What does a university prof in economics get by telling me what I want to hear?
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
I can tell you that, for example, 'reputable' economists who have researched the healthcare system will say that it makes financial sense to fund IVF. The regulation and savings alone in reduced multiples births would not only cover all the costs, there would be future tax payers and contributors to the economy. The lifetime return on one birth is estimated to be substantial. But the reason it isn't funded is because there is no immediate return. Future anticipated benefits aren't considered.

Here we have a government claiming this is not for immediate benefit but for future anticipated and theorized investment. I simply don't buy it. Someone is making money and it isn't the low income taxpayer.
 

ansutherland

Electoral Member
Jun 24, 2010
192
2
18
I can tell you that, for example, 'reputable' economists who have researched the healthcare system will say that it makes financial sense to fund IVF. The regulation and savings alone in reduced multiples births would not only cover all the costs, there would be future tax payers and contributors to the economy. The lifetime return on one birth is estimated to be substantial. But the reason it isn't funded is because there is no immediate return. Future anticipated benefits aren't considered.

Here we have a government claiming this is not for immediate benefit but for future anticipated and theorized investment. I simply don't buy it. Someone is making money and it isn't the low income taxpayer.

Then what is the motive for non-affiliated, nonpartisan economist of all national stripes to lie for the benefit of the Liberal government. Can anyone provide one example where a reputable expert has been caught fabricating evidence to help the Liberals pass the HST legislation?
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
I've heard reputable non-partisan economists calling for growth rates in BC of about 3-4%, and not one has attributed any of it the HST.
 

ansutherland

Electoral Member
Jun 24, 2010
192
2
18
I've heard reputable non-partisan economists calling for growth rates in BC of about 3-4%, and not one has attributed any of it the HST.

But are they calling for growth in spite of the HST? I think not. Again, I call upon you to dig up someone reputable to defy the claims of the government and the majority of qualified professionals.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
What is the government claiming? Point me to their statistical guesswork.

Positive Economic Indicators - Province of British Columbia
(stuff that has nothing to do with the HST but some will claim it so at some point)

Positive Economic Indicators

June 24, 2010

Wages in B.C. compared with Canada

In May 2010, B.C.'s average weekly wage was nearly $829, third highest in Canada. The average weekly wage has risen by almost $181 – or 28 per cent - since 2001, when it was $648.
(BC Stats)

The average hourly wage in B.C. during May 2010 was $22.97 - more than 2.8 times the minimum wage, and a 28 per cent increase compared with 2001's average of $17.98. For B.C. youth under 25, the average hourly wage was $13.17 – third highest in Canada.
(Statistics Canada)

A British Columbian who earns the average weekly wage of $829 makes almost $9,400 per year more today, before taxes, than they would have in 2001, when the average weekly wage was $648.

CURRENT FIGURES

Major construction projects in B.C. at unmatched levels

An unprecedented 896 major construction projects, worth an estimated record of $191 billion, were planned or underway in British Columbia during the first quarter of 2010. The number of proposed projects, 547, is also an all-time high. Since 2001, the number of projects has nearly tripled, and their value has more than quadrupled.
(Ministry of Small Business, Technology and Economic Development, Major Projects Inventory, March 2010 Edition)

Building permits on the rise

According to Statistics Canada, the value of building permits issued in British Columbia during April 2010 was $676 million, a 77 per cent increase compared with April 2009. Residential building permits are up by 91 per cent over last year.
(Statistics Canada, Building Permits, April 2010 Issue)

New housing start growth tops in Canada

The CMHC reports than British Columbia is the Canadian leader when it comes to housing start growth. From January to May 2010, almost 9,400 new housing units broke ground in B.C., an increase of more than 120 per cent compared with the first five months of 2009.
(Canada Housing and Mortgage Corp., May 2010 Preliminary Housing Starts Index)

B.C. forecast to lead Canada in new home starts

In the latest Housing Market Outlook, released in May, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. has forecasted British Columbia to lead the country in new housing starts this year with a 42 per cent increase.
(Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp., Second Quarter 2010 Housing Market Outlook)

Conference Board forecasts B.C. to lead Canada in growth in 2010

In its Spring 2010 Provincial Outlook, the Conference Board of Canada forecasts B.C. will record 3.8 real GDP growth this year, an increase from the previous forecast and tied for first in Canadian growth. In 2011, British Columbia is expected to have the second highest housing start growth just behind Newfoundland and Labrador.
(Conference Board of Canada, Spring 2010 Provincial Outlook)

BMO forecasts GDP growth

B.C. is experiencing a sustainable recovery and, along with Western Canada, is set to outperform the rest of the country this year and next, according to BMO Capital Market’s latest Provincial Monitor. BMO forecasts B.C.’s real gross domestic product will grow by 3.9 per cent in 2010 and 2011, fuelled by strong domestic demand, a “furious rebound” in housing sales, and high commodity prices.
(BMO Capital Markets Provincial Monitor)

British Columbia to lead nation in job creation

In their latest provincial forecasts, the Royal Bank of Canada, CIBC, TD, Scotiabank, and the Desjardins Group are all projecting that British Columbia will lead Canada or be in the top three in job creation in 2010.

Economic recovery spreads to labour force

According to Statistics Canada, B.C. has gained 36,000 jobs so far in 2010 – third highest rate of growth in Canada after Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland & Labrador. The unemployment rate has fallen to 0.8 percentage points to 7.5 per cent for May.
(Statistics Canada, Labour Force Survey: May 2010 Edition)

Help Wanted in British Columbia

In the May edition of its Metropolitan Help-Wanted Index, the Conference Board of Canada reports that all three of British Columbia’s census metropolitan areas (CMA) – Abbotsford, Vancouver and Victoria – have positive near-term employment prospects. More than half of Canada’s 27 CMAs experienced a decline in their May Help-Wanted Index.
(Conference Board of Canada, Metropolitan Help-Wanted Index: May 2010)

Manpower Canada reports positive hiring climates right across B.C.

Manpower Canada’s latest quarterly Employment Outlook Survey has good news for B.C. job seekers. This global employment agency reports positive hiring climates in all five of their B.C. survey areas – Burnaby-Coquitlam, Richmond-Delta, Surrey, Vancouver, and the Victoria region – for the third quarter of 2010.
(Manpower Canada, Manpower Employment Outlook Survey: Third quarter 2010)

Vancouver’s economic growth expected to lead Canadian cities

Vancouver’s economy is set to grow by four per cent in 2010, faster than any other city in the country, according to the Conference Board of Canada’s latest Metropolitan Outlook. The same report has Victoria recording Canada’s fourth highest rate of growth.
(Conference Board of Canada, Metropolitan Outlook Spring 2010)

Retail sales climbing steadily

Seasonally adjusted retail sales in British Columbia during the first quarter of 2010 were worth more than $14.5 billion, up by 9.4 per cent compared with the same time in 2009.
(Statistics Canada: Retail Trade report, March 2010)

Business confidence on the upswing

The Canadian Federation of Independent Business reports the confidence of B.C.’s small and medium business rose again in May, is above the Canadian average, and is 10 points higher that it was a year ago.
(Canadian Federation of Independent Business, May 2010 Business Barometer Index)

Vancouver small business most optimistic

Of small business owners surveyed in three Canadian cities, those in Vancouver are most confident that their businesses’ financial position will improve, according to American Express, which tracks attitudes of Canadian small business. For the first time, the quarterly Small Business Index examined differences among cities and found that 64 per cent of businesses in B.C.’s largest city were optimistic, compared with 40 per cent in Toronto and 61 per cent in Montreal.
(American Express Quarterly Small Business Index)

Financial institutes bullish on B.C.’s economic recovery

Leading Canadian financial institutions – including the Desjardins Group, the Royal Bank of Canada, Toronto Dominion, CIBC, BMO and Scotia Bank – are forecasting B.C. to either lead Canada or be near the top in GDP growth this year.

B.C.’s top credit rating reconfirmed

The Dominion Bond Rating Service, Standard & Poor, and Moody's Investment Service have all reconfirmed B.C.'s strong credit rating. The most recent report from Moody's notes the Province's significant debt reduction efforts of the past few years have put British Columbia in a stronger position to face the economic downturn. DBRS rates B.C. AA(High); Standard & Poor, AAA; and Moody's, AAA.

Prince George and Vancouver earn top marks in KPMG survey

Both Vancouver and Prince George were awarded top spots in KPMG’s 2010 Competitive Alternatives report. Prince George was ranked as having the most competitive business costs of any jurisdiction in KPMG’s 13 city Pacific U.S. Canada survey area. In a comparison of 41 international cities with populations of more than two million people, Vancouver skyrocketed from 21st to fifth overall in business costs and was ranked first for tax competiveness. KPMG cites “continued federal and provincial corporate tax rate cuts and the upcoming change to the Harmonized Sales Tax (HST)” for Vancouver’s ascendency.
(KPMG, Competitive Alternatives 2010)

B.C. continues to record strong population growth

For the second consecutive quarter, British Columbia was Canada’s leader in proportional population growth. From October to December 2009, B.C.’s population grew by nearly 14,300 people, including more than 9,200 immigrants, and now totals 4,494,232.
(Statistics Canada, Quarterly Demographic Estimates: October to December 2009)

B.C.'s housing sales continue positive rebound

The British Columbia Real Estate Association reports there were almost 26,700 residential home sales during the first four months of 2010, a 47 per cent increase over 2009 sales numbers. In 2009 more than 85,000 homes changed hands in British Columbia, a 23 per cent increase over 2008’s sales figures.
(B.C. Real Estate Association, April 2010 MLS Sales Report)

Forest industry ramps up production

Statistics Canada is reporting that lumber production in British Columbia is on the ascendancy. During the first quarter of 2010, lumber production in British Columbia increase by more than 25 per cent compared with 2009 to reach 6.6 million cubic metres. Exports are also up – by 23 per cent over 2009 numbers. (Statistics Canada: Sawmills Service Bulletin, March 2010)

British Columbia remains a box office leader in film and TV production

According to the BC Film Commission, spending on television and film production in British Columbia topped $1.3 billion during 2009, up by more than $100 million over 2008. With 2009’s increase, B.C. remains firmly established as North America’s third largest television and film production centre.
(BC Film Commission: 2009 Production Statistics package)

Shipping tonnage way up

Both the Port of Prince Rupert and Port Metro Vancouver are reporting that shipping volumes so far in 2010 are well above 2009 levels. Over the first four months of this year, 31.4 million tonnes of cargo has passed through Port Metro Vancouver, 19.5 per cent more than 2009. Included in this number was outbound tonnage that was up by 20 per cent. The Prince Rupert Port Authority reports more than 5.2 million tonnes went through their facilities from January to April, an increase of 48 per cent compared with the same time last year.
(Port Metro Vancouver: Cargo Statistics Report, April 2010 and Prince Rupert Port Authority: Monthly Traffic Summary, April 2010)

Vancouver grows in stature as a global financial centre

Thanks to Canada’s strong and stable banking sector, Vancouver’s ranking in the latest City of London’s Global Financial Centres Index rose by six places. Released in March 2010, the new Global Financial Centres Index places Vancouver ahead of jurisdictions such as Dubai, Amsterdam, the British Virgin Islands, Montreal, Seoul and the Cayman Islands.
(City of London, The Global Financial Centres Index 7)

China grants Canada approved destination status

In December 2009, China granted Canada approved destination status, allowing tour operators and travel agents in China to advertise and organize tours in Canada and British Columbia. Approved destination status could increase Chinese tourism to B.C. by 25 per cent annually over the next few years.

Building relationships

From March 2001 to December 2009, close to 10,000 skilled and business immigrants were attracted to British Columbia through the B.C. Provincial Nominee Program. Last fiscal year alone, B.C. attracted 2,658 skilled workers and entrepreneurs – more than 6,200 new immigrants including family members.
(Ministry of Advanced Education and Labour Market Development)
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
Fearing for his, and the liberal party, political life, Campbell will grant a referendum with a binding simple majority.

Thanks Bill Vanderzalm.