Anti-Canadianism and more.....
- Thread starter gnuman
- Start date
Well, to hearten you Canadians, I can only say that in general I believe the rest of the world (at least I believe Western Europe) sees Canada as a peaceful and friendly nation, and I think many Dutch will link it with a country which has not only helped us during the Second World War, but has also proven to be a country worthy of emigrating to! (considering the large number of Dutch which emigrated to Canada, especially in the 1950's)
Not as perceptive as you'd like to think you are, huh. The name is Jamie.
To the numb-nutted person who said this:
"Then tell your president to quit killing people because of his religious beliefs."
You must be confused. The ignorant assholes who need to stop killing people because of their religious beliefs, are called radical islamic terrorists. As usual, the world ...hehhmmm, excuse me, I mean the UN is not legitimately qualified to tell the US how to protect itself, seeing as though they are obvious supporters of terrorist organizations. I have a bit of French in me, but the truth is the truth. They could care less what happens to anyone, and only 'do something' to gain monetarily or if they'll look good in doing so. With the French around, I don't know how Americans got labeled pompous, arrogant, and self-centered.
Despite the bombastic rants found on this site, I still have hope that not all Cannucks are as benighted as you here.
Poor Canada...being taken over by socialist leftist dictators....
To the numb-nutted person who said this:
"Then tell your president to quit killing people because of his religious beliefs."
You must be confused. The ignorant assholes who need to stop killing people because of their religious beliefs, are called radical islamic terrorists. As usual, the world ...hehhmmm, excuse me, I mean the UN is not legitimately qualified to tell the US how to protect itself, seeing as though they are obvious supporters of terrorist organizations. I have a bit of French in me, but the truth is the truth. They could care less what happens to anyone, and only 'do something' to gain monetarily or if they'll look good in doing so. With the French around, I don't know how Americans got labeled pompous, arrogant, and self-centered.
Despite the bombastic rants found on this site, I still have hope that not all Cannucks are as benighted as you here.
Poor Canada...being taken over by socialist leftist dictators....
RE: Anti-Canadianism and
Most of us have faith in real Americans, Jimmy. Those would be the ones smart enough to realise that the world does not revolve around a group of jingoistic Jesus freaks with an illegitmate belief that greed is good.
We don't trust your leaders because we've seen what they've done around the world. We don't trust those who spew, "My country right or wrong," while their president is making the entire world a more dangerous place so he can put gas in his SUV.
Most of us have faith in real Americans, Jimmy. Those would be the ones smart enough to realise that the world does not revolve around a group of jingoistic Jesus freaks with an illegitmate belief that greed is good.
We don't trust your leaders because we've seen what they've done around the world. We don't trust those who spew, "My country right or wrong," while their president is making the entire world a more dangerous place so he can put gas in his SUV.
Since when does the UN support terrorist organisations? The fact that an international organisation - which represents almost all nations on this planet - does not agree with the way the American government tries to solve this issue called terrorism, does not immediately mean the UN is supporting these terrorists. Your way of argument is by that irrational: you see it as a black-white situation. World politics is complex, Jamie. The fact that someone like Saddam Hussein - a cruel dictator - is removed, does not mean that Iraq is safe (just turn on your TV). This is due to all different factors in Iraq, and which I will not discuss further. I think the UN knew that it was not such a black-white situation, and I praise them for that.
And you should look up the definition of "dictator" Jamie. It does NOT mean: a person who shares another view on things.
And you should look up the definition of "dictator" Jamie. It does NOT mean: a person who shares another view on things.
Hola,
The most powerful countries on Earth are not 'safe' , so is it all that surprising that Iraq isn't either? Really. It wasn't safe before, but nobody seemed to give a rats ass, though.
An, seeing as though, just past the Israeli border-into Lebanon, there is an 'out-post' where two flags can be seen flying together. Guess what flags? The UN flag and the flag of the terrorist organization, Hezbollah. How can the UN be looking out for the best interest of all westerners (not just Americans) seeing as though they are so tight w/ those blood thirsty, prejudiced terrorist, that have killed so many westerners(and other Arabs)?
It's not an issue of seeing things as black-and-white. It's an issue of seeing things as they are.
The most powerful countries on Earth are not 'safe' , so is it all that surprising that Iraq isn't either? Really. It wasn't safe before, but nobody seemed to give a rats ass, though.
An, seeing as though, just past the Israeli border-into Lebanon, there is an 'out-post' where two flags can be seen flying together. Guess what flags? The UN flag and the flag of the terrorist organization, Hezbollah. How can the UN be looking out for the best interest of all westerners (not just Americans) seeing as though they are so tight w/ those blood thirsty, prejudiced terrorist, that have killed so many westerners(and other Arabs)?
It's not an issue of seeing things as black-and-white. It's an issue of seeing things as they are.
RE: Anti-Canadianism and
Seeing things as they are? You mean noticing that there were people in what is now Israel before the European powers decided to create it? You mean actually dealing with a group that represents people?
You don't want to get into an argument over what makes a state into a terrorist state here, Jimmy. We know the facts and recognise that killing civilians is a terrorist act whether it is perpetrated by Palestinians, Israelis, or George "I hear voices in my head" Bush.
The United Nations deals with Israel and the USA, why shouldn't they deal with Palestinians in exile in Lebanon? They deal with members of the Republican Party, why shouldn't they deal with members of Hezbollah?
By the way, the United Nations has condemned every terrorist act, no matter who commits it. The US likes to use its veto to protect Israel from those condemnations. Maybe the UN should quit dealing with the US...take away their veto and insist on monthly inspections by the IAEA.
Seeing things as they are? You mean noticing that there were people in what is now Israel before the European powers decided to create it? You mean actually dealing with a group that represents people?
You don't want to get into an argument over what makes a state into a terrorist state here, Jimmy. We know the facts and recognise that killing civilians is a terrorist act whether it is perpetrated by Palestinians, Israelis, or George "I hear voices in my head" Bush.
The United Nations deals with Israel and the USA, why shouldn't they deal with Palestinians in exile in Lebanon? They deal with members of the Republican Party, why shouldn't they deal with members of Hezbollah?
By the way, the United Nations has condemned every terrorist act, no matter who commits it. The US likes to use its veto to protect Israel from those condemnations. Maybe the UN should quit dealing with the US...take away their veto and insist on monthly inspections by the IAEA.
What most of the world doesn't understand about the US:
1. Until 1941, Dec.7 to be exact, the US lived in their own little world and did not get "OUTSIDE THE BOX" with an isolationist tendancy to stick their heads in the sand and ignore ther rest of the world. This belief came from Pres. George Washington's final address to the nation in 1796 when he said to "Avoid Europe's Squabbles and stick to matters here in the New World." This tendancy has coloured US thinking even to this day with some people asking, "What if we just built a fence and stayed home?"
2. The US "Cowboy" spirit is not a myth but a manifest belief originating in its pioneer past. AMERICANS have always had this inate belief in doing what it takes to get a job done, once this spirit is awoken, it is a hard genie to put back in the bottle. Patriotism on the whole in the US is on the personal belief system of the USA "Being my land of Opportunity." Most Stater's see themselves in the light of being refugees from somewhere else (An emigrant nation) so with the opportunity which presents itself here in the USA or Canada with a penniless person gaining a foothold and getting ahead joining the middle class prosperity. Emigrants tend to be more patriotic than you can ever imagine. This spirit is unexplainabel until you feel the teamwork at the local community level and pride in NOUS or our which is a reflection on self. The history books show how great things were accomplished (WWII, Moon Landing, Civil War, Revolutionary War, etc.) so a great value of self is created.
3. The US doesn't forget. PERIOD. Certain things are imbued upon the national consciousness such as the Alamo, Gettysburg, Pearl Harbor, Loss of Columbia and Discovery, and of Course 9-11. when 9-11 happened, Palestininens outside Arafat's HQ were shown cheering that morning but an hour later the mood had turned somber when US reaction was building and even Russia stood down it armed forces! The Palenstinian Leadership quickly realized their gaff and did not want to rub salt in a wound of a beast that would just as soon bite them as feed them! Afganastan's Taliban found out the US resolve to carryout a difficult mission. North Korea "shaddup" real quick and Libya "renounced" terrorism so quick it made us laugh in the US! Iraq' Saddam Hussien just got on our badside and like a good reneck Bar Fight, the US demonstrated how quickly we could park our tanks in front of HIS PALACE! The US is not afraid, READ THE HISTORY BOOKS.
4. Charity a secret US Virtue! The US foriegn Aid Bill is only .3% of our budget which is embarassingly low! The US rebuit Germany and Japan along with Western Europe with the Marshall Plan, organized the Peace Corps and overlooked foriegn loans on its books for years! The basic man in the street hates foriegn aid since it seems so many foriegn Govt crooks STEAL the Money! However, the foriegn Charities effort in the US is an embarassement of riches, nobody ever looks at the Red Cross, Catholic Charities, Feed the Children not to mention the private groups collecting mainly on behalf of religious groups' relief socities. US Stater's are suspicious of Government Groups
of any kind as well as their own government, so private aid societies remain as the big players.
5. WE THE PEOPLE Since it is a republic, the US people have a mystical feeling about their government, it is a neccessary evil but they keep it on a tight leash (or so they think). Any politician worth his salt will campaign against big government. The Democratic Party has been the closest thing to a socialist party sthis country has had and more government aid doesn't set well with the Rural, Southern and Western Voters. Some States has entrenched Political Machines (Both parties are adept at this one) and to overcome this handicap takes real perserverance and patience. It is hard to elect a Republican in New York or California but equally hard to run a Democrat in Alaska or Texas, so sectionalism takes place upon a grander scale! The Republican Party has campaigned upon individualism, self reliance, hard work and free enterprize (I know the RICH FOLKS) but they sell the "American Dream" and the public loves it in their areas.
6. E PLURIBUS UNUM One From the Many is the motto on the Great Seal of the US and it doesn't mean MELTING POT which the rest of the world thinks everybody in the US is a cardboard Pastie of his neighbour! In the US, every Ethnic Group you can think of and some that I wonder if they are from this Planet are found here. You have whole towns in Texas that speak German!, Radio stations in the Desert Southwest of Arizona, New Mexico, Utah and Colorado carry full time programming in Spanish, Dineh (Navajo), Ute, Hopi as well as English. In Kansas and Nebraska or even Alaska you liable to hear Russian and Ukraianian! En Louisiane, en Francais, s'il vous plait and Spanish is EVERYWHERE! So, the bad news is that ENGLISH is not our official Language, WE DON"T HAVE ONE! Talk about multicultural, the US leaves it up to the States or Territories to decide their languages! Whole towns conduct their business in something other than English and ITS LEGAL!
On my visit to the Cherokee Nation at Cherokee, NC, I was reminded that in the Soveriegn Nation of the Cherokee People taht even during the unpopular war in Vietnem, the Local Draft Board ran out of inductees due to EVERY ABLEBODIED MALE being in the Armed Forces! The story is oft repeated on other Indian Reservations also, DO NOT TRY TO DISS THE USA IN THE CHEROKEE NATION, you gotta better chance of surviving a Polar Bear Attack while covered in Lard! Even though the American Indian Tribes have been treated badly, they are among the MOST LOYAL people I have ever seen!
Best summed up this away, We have done some infighting among ourselves, but you outside people best beware, if lay your hands on ONE OF OURS (Aluet, Inuit, Hopi, Cherokee, Black, Hispanic, Polish, Red-Neck or other flavor of AMERICAN) you got the whole bunch looking for you. DO NOT DISTRUB A HORNET'S NEST!
7. RELIGION There is an innate belief system that the US was created by the hand of GOD or Devine Intervention, this being that the founding father weren't particularly religious! Our founding fathers were distrustful of organized religion and established hiearchies that they wanted a seperation of Church and State! The substitute for the organized reigion became the Masonic Order which styled itself as the guardian of the new republic! A lot of our institutions seemed to be tinged with Mason connotations, just look at the great seal on the Back of an American One Dollar Bill! You are free to practice whatever you want to practise so long as you don't harm anyone! For the most part, Pentecostalism has swept the US in the guise of small time religion with not a great deal of hierarchy or structure to present a united threat to other religions. Americans don't like religious fueds and avoid bickering as in the old world but do consider themselves religious in a certain fashion. Religion is very private here but when a theocracy tries to dictate to America, it doesn't go over too well. Islam is getting connected to terrorism by its percieved intolerance to certain things in our culture and that perception is widespread. We have more Mosques in the USA than in some Muslim countries but our Islamic Population is diappointed that we do not use the Sharia in our legal system nor rocognize the authority of the imam in the secular world. Violence & Religion don't seem to go together and any belief system that preaches HATE is generaly shunned! Our fringe groups are free to practise what they want (KKK, ARYAN NATIONS, name your hate group) but the minute they act, the curtain is lowered! In the name of Freedom, we tolerate the fools and generally laugh at their antics on the news! Imagine grown men walking around in bed sheets, Silly Bastards.
8. UNITED NATIONS The US older population remembers the UN as the place where Nikita Kruschev pounded his shoe on podium and said how the Soviet Union was going to bury the United States? Well, the US is still here and the Soviet Union went out of business! The business of the UN is in minutae of day to day operations of relations between countries and how each will interact with its specialized agencies such as the ITU, World Health, Nuclear Regulatory, International Disputes etc. The Credibility of the UN has been seriously challenged when they were unable to act in Bosnia, Somalia, Rwanda just to name a few! The Darfur case should arouse justifiable anger but the footdragging continues! Americans feel when the UN can't or won't act, a little can-do Cowboyism will get the job done. They feel the UN is not the friend of the US andd has felt maligned since the Cold War Days of the non aligned states being used by the Communist Bloc to goad at the West. America has funded the lion share (with a few exceptions) of the expenses of the UN and has gotten no graditude for anything good its done and only criticism for anything bad.
9. TRADE America uses 40% of the worlds Oil, so no wonder our biggest trading partners are oil shiekdoms! Most of these tiny kingdoms are heavily invested in our future and when the world needs a refuge, why do they come to the USA? Is it because we are still the safest country on Earth or is it because WAR has not touched our soil in a major way for over 140 years! Our tax code is written to spur new investment and development. Keep the SUV full of gas and that Soccer Mom happy and the same cabal of politicians will keep being relected!
I hope this small glimpse will explain some idiosyncrasies of the Americans but this is deep subject and why is as varied as the people themselves and how they view their world.
1. Until 1941, Dec.7 to be exact, the US lived in their own little world and did not get "OUTSIDE THE BOX" with an isolationist tendancy to stick their heads in the sand and ignore ther rest of the world. This belief came from Pres. George Washington's final address to the nation in 1796 when he said to "Avoid Europe's Squabbles and stick to matters here in the New World." This tendancy has coloured US thinking even to this day with some people asking, "What if we just built a fence and stayed home?"
2. The US "Cowboy" spirit is not a myth but a manifest belief originating in its pioneer past. AMERICANS have always had this inate belief in doing what it takes to get a job done, once this spirit is awoken, it is a hard genie to put back in the bottle. Patriotism on the whole in the US is on the personal belief system of the USA "Being my land of Opportunity." Most Stater's see themselves in the light of being refugees from somewhere else (An emigrant nation) so with the opportunity which presents itself here in the USA or Canada with a penniless person gaining a foothold and getting ahead joining the middle class prosperity. Emigrants tend to be more patriotic than you can ever imagine. This spirit is unexplainabel until you feel the teamwork at the local community level and pride in NOUS or our which is a reflection on self. The history books show how great things were accomplished (WWII, Moon Landing, Civil War, Revolutionary War, etc.) so a great value of self is created.
3. The US doesn't forget. PERIOD. Certain things are imbued upon the national consciousness such as the Alamo, Gettysburg, Pearl Harbor, Loss of Columbia and Discovery, and of Course 9-11. when 9-11 happened, Palestininens outside Arafat's HQ were shown cheering that morning but an hour later the mood had turned somber when US reaction was building and even Russia stood down it armed forces! The Palenstinian Leadership quickly realized their gaff and did not want to rub salt in a wound of a beast that would just as soon bite them as feed them! Afganastan's Taliban found out the US resolve to carryout a difficult mission. North Korea "shaddup" real quick and Libya "renounced" terrorism so quick it made us laugh in the US! Iraq' Saddam Hussien just got on our badside and like a good reneck Bar Fight, the US demonstrated how quickly we could park our tanks in front of HIS PALACE! The US is not afraid, READ THE HISTORY BOOKS.
4. Charity a secret US Virtue! The US foriegn Aid Bill is only .3% of our budget which is embarassingly low! The US rebuit Germany and Japan along with Western Europe with the Marshall Plan, organized the Peace Corps and overlooked foriegn loans on its books for years! The basic man in the street hates foriegn aid since it seems so many foriegn Govt crooks STEAL the Money! However, the foriegn Charities effort in the US is an embarassement of riches, nobody ever looks at the Red Cross, Catholic Charities, Feed the Children not to mention the private groups collecting mainly on behalf of religious groups' relief socities. US Stater's are suspicious of Government Groups
of any kind as well as their own government, so private aid societies remain as the big players.
5. WE THE PEOPLE Since it is a republic, the US people have a mystical feeling about their government, it is a neccessary evil but they keep it on a tight leash (or so they think). Any politician worth his salt will campaign against big government. The Democratic Party has been the closest thing to a socialist party sthis country has had and more government aid doesn't set well with the Rural, Southern and Western Voters. Some States has entrenched Political Machines (Both parties are adept at this one) and to overcome this handicap takes real perserverance and patience. It is hard to elect a Republican in New York or California but equally hard to run a Democrat in Alaska or Texas, so sectionalism takes place upon a grander scale! The Republican Party has campaigned upon individualism, self reliance, hard work and free enterprize (I know the RICH FOLKS) but they sell the "American Dream" and the public loves it in their areas.
6. E PLURIBUS UNUM One From the Many is the motto on the Great Seal of the US and it doesn't mean MELTING POT which the rest of the world thinks everybody in the US is a cardboard Pastie of his neighbour! In the US, every Ethnic Group you can think of and some that I wonder if they are from this Planet are found here. You have whole towns in Texas that speak German!, Radio stations in the Desert Southwest of Arizona, New Mexico, Utah and Colorado carry full time programming in Spanish, Dineh (Navajo), Ute, Hopi as well as English. In Kansas and Nebraska or even Alaska you liable to hear Russian and Ukraianian! En Louisiane, en Francais, s'il vous plait and Spanish is EVERYWHERE! So, the bad news is that ENGLISH is not our official Language, WE DON"T HAVE ONE! Talk about multicultural, the US leaves it up to the States or Territories to decide their languages! Whole towns conduct their business in something other than English and ITS LEGAL!
On my visit to the Cherokee Nation at Cherokee, NC, I was reminded that in the Soveriegn Nation of the Cherokee People taht even during the unpopular war in Vietnem, the Local Draft Board ran out of inductees due to EVERY ABLEBODIED MALE being in the Armed Forces! The story is oft repeated on other Indian Reservations also, DO NOT TRY TO DISS THE USA IN THE CHEROKEE NATION, you gotta better chance of surviving a Polar Bear Attack while covered in Lard! Even though the American Indian Tribes have been treated badly, they are among the MOST LOYAL people I have ever seen!
Best summed up this away, We have done some infighting among ourselves, but you outside people best beware, if lay your hands on ONE OF OURS (Aluet, Inuit, Hopi, Cherokee, Black, Hispanic, Polish, Red-Neck or other flavor of AMERICAN) you got the whole bunch looking for you. DO NOT DISTRUB A HORNET'S NEST!
7. RELIGION There is an innate belief system that the US was created by the hand of GOD or Devine Intervention, this being that the founding father weren't particularly religious! Our founding fathers were distrustful of organized religion and established hiearchies that they wanted a seperation of Church and State! The substitute for the organized reigion became the Masonic Order which styled itself as the guardian of the new republic! A lot of our institutions seemed to be tinged with Mason connotations, just look at the great seal on the Back of an American One Dollar Bill! You are free to practice whatever you want to practise so long as you don't harm anyone! For the most part, Pentecostalism has swept the US in the guise of small time religion with not a great deal of hierarchy or structure to present a united threat to other religions. Americans don't like religious fueds and avoid bickering as in the old world but do consider themselves religious in a certain fashion. Religion is very private here but when a theocracy tries to dictate to America, it doesn't go over too well. Islam is getting connected to terrorism by its percieved intolerance to certain things in our culture and that perception is widespread. We have more Mosques in the USA than in some Muslim countries but our Islamic Population is diappointed that we do not use the Sharia in our legal system nor rocognize the authority of the imam in the secular world. Violence & Religion don't seem to go together and any belief system that preaches HATE is generaly shunned! Our fringe groups are free to practise what they want (KKK, ARYAN NATIONS, name your hate group) but the minute they act, the curtain is lowered! In the name of Freedom, we tolerate the fools and generally laugh at their antics on the news! Imagine grown men walking around in bed sheets, Silly Bastards.
8. UNITED NATIONS The US older population remembers the UN as the place where Nikita Kruschev pounded his shoe on podium and said how the Soviet Union was going to bury the United States? Well, the US is still here and the Soviet Union went out of business! The business of the UN is in minutae of day to day operations of relations between countries and how each will interact with its specialized agencies such as the ITU, World Health, Nuclear Regulatory, International Disputes etc. The Credibility of the UN has been seriously challenged when they were unable to act in Bosnia, Somalia, Rwanda just to name a few! The Darfur case should arouse justifiable anger but the footdragging continues! Americans feel when the UN can't or won't act, a little can-do Cowboyism will get the job done. They feel the UN is not the friend of the US andd has felt maligned since the Cold War Days of the non aligned states being used by the Communist Bloc to goad at the West. America has funded the lion share (with a few exceptions) of the expenses of the UN and has gotten no graditude for anything good its done and only criticism for anything bad.
9. TRADE America uses 40% of the worlds Oil, so no wonder our biggest trading partners are oil shiekdoms! Most of these tiny kingdoms are heavily invested in our future and when the world needs a refuge, why do they come to the USA? Is it because we are still the safest country on Earth or is it because WAR has not touched our soil in a major way for over 140 years! Our tax code is written to spur new investment and development. Keep the SUV full of gas and that Soccer Mom happy and the same cabal of politicians will keep being relected!
I hope this small glimpse will explain some idiosyncrasies of the Americans but this is deep subject and why is as varied as the people themselves and how they view their world.
I guess I could respond to all the half-witted banter, but it's been too long of a day...maybe tomorrow.
I will, however say that the UN is full of shit. I mean, the oil for food catastrophe? I wish I had placed a bet on that one, I'd have a little more money. Also, Blair- I didn't mention the Palestinians, but since you brought it up, who lived on the land before the Palestinians? ....you know- the ones who lived there before the Romans expelled them and the Palestinians "claimed" it as theirs...come on say it.......
I guess by your own standards Canada is a terrorist country to some, since they somewhat helped in WW2, huh?
good night
P.S. Martin the Acadian:
Tell me something I don't know. Part of my heritage is from the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation. :wink:
I will, however say that the UN is full of shit. I mean, the oil for food catastrophe? I wish I had placed a bet on that one, I'd have a little more money. Also, Blair- I didn't mention the Palestinians, but since you brought it up, who lived on the land before the Palestinians? ....you know- the ones who lived there before the Romans expelled them and the Palestinians "claimed" it as theirs...come on say it.......
I guess by your own standards Canada is a terrorist country to some, since they somewhat helped in WW2, huh?
good night
P.S. Martin the Acadian:
Tell me something I don't know. Part of my heritage is from the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation. :wink:
I guess I could respond to all the half-witted banter, but it's been too long of a day...maybe tomorrow.
I will, however say that the UN is full of shit. I mean, the oil for food catastrophe? I wish I had placed a bet on that one, I'd have a little more money. Also, Blair- I didn't mention the Palestinians, but since you brought it up, who lived on the land before the Palestinians? ....you know- the ones who lived there before the Romans expelled them and the Palestinians "claimed" it as theirs...come on say it.......
I guess by your own standards Canada is a terrorist country to some, since they somewhat helped in WW2, huh?
good night
P.S. Martin the Acadian:
Tell me something I don't know. Part of my heritage is from the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation. :wink:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Canadian is someone who knows how to make love in a canoe.
- Anonymous
I will, however say that the UN is full of shit. I mean, the oil for food catastrophe? I wish I had placed a bet on that one, I'd have a little more money. Also, Blair- I didn't mention the Palestinians, but since you brought it up, who lived on the land before the Palestinians? ....you know- the ones who lived there before the Romans expelled them and the Palestinians "claimed" it as theirs...come on say it.......
I guess by your own standards Canada is a terrorist country to some, since they somewhat helped in WW2, huh?
good night
P.S. Martin the Acadian:
Tell me something I don't know. Part of my heritage is from the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation. :wink:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Canadian is someone who knows how to make love in a canoe.
- Anonymous
jamie said:I guess I could respond to all the half-witted banter, but it's been too long of a day...maybe tomorrow.
I will, however say that the UN is full of shit. I mean, the oil for food catastrophe? I wish I had placed a bet on that one, I'd have a little more money. Also, Blair- I didn't mention the Palestinians, but since you brought it up, who lived on the land before the Palestinians? ....you know- the ones who lived there before the Romans expelled them and the Palestinians "claimed" it as theirs...come on say it.......
I guess by your own standards Canada is a terrorist country to some, since they somewhat helped in WW2, huh?
good night
P.S. Martin the Acadian:
Tell me something I don't know. Part of my heritage is from the Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation. :wink:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Canadian is someone who knows how to make love in a canoe.
- Anonymous
Good points, Jamie, I completely forgot about the food for oil programme whereas Saddam bought off his friends etc and UN execs got rich off the poor people of Iraq!
My reason for metioning the fact of the Cherokee Nation is that I visit up there quite often and one time I had the opportunity to get a haircut in the local Barbershop when a visitor from another country had stopped in and was asking some questions to Joe and Chief Henry and hit a raw nerve when he asked how the Cherokee People could support the Federal Government when they had been done so many wrongs to the Cherokees? Chief Henry's reply was a classic, "While all this is true, the people of the United States have apoligized and worked hard to make sure the past was never repeated, We, the Cherokee People, have and will be loyal citizens, follow the laws of the land and never bring dishonour upon our people or have the people point to anything shameful we have done, we must follow a higher moral compass and show honour in the face of our enemies."
To be in the presence of such honour was and is a highlight of my life!
Jamie, on the subject of WW2, Canada did prosecute the War and lost per Capita more men than the USA. My uncle (Father's Brother) ran away from home to join the Canadians in 1940 when he could not join the US Army to get into the fight! Canada was at war since Sept 1939! His service was distingished and he still lives in Canada to this day! The history of WW2 is dear to most Canadians and they fought with valour and bravery equal to any other country! FOR KING AND COUNTRY.
Martin the Acadien (Un Courrier de bois)
Vie Le Premiere Nation de Le Cherokee
A couple of things...
The US had full oversight of the program. If the UN is at fault, then so is the US government. How come that doesn't show up on your news broadcasts or in your posts?
There were Americans involved in the scandal. Their names showed up on the UN list along with people from other countries. Only one of them appears to be of interest to the US government.
Actually the Palestinans are descended from tribes that have lived in the area since at least biblical times. They are a semitic people, just like the Jews. They lived there alongside Jews, Christians, and Coptic Christians, in fact there is a sizable Palestinian Christian sect. Some Palestinians still practice ancient Samaritan rites.
People have this view of ancient Israel being this pure Jewish state and that simply in not borne out by fact. It was ruled by Jewish kings until the Romans took over, but there were always other people in the area.
What is your opinion on those 150-200 million Americans of European decent living in the US? Or what about Canada? Do you think that they both can claim the US or Canada as their homeland?jamie said:Also, Blair- I didn't mention the Palestinians, but since you brought it up, who lived on the land before the Palestinians? ....you know- the ones who lived there before the Romans expelled them and the Palestinians "claimed" it as theirs...come on say it.......
RE: Anti-Canadianism and
How 'bout the Anglo-Saxons that make up most of Britain? They are relative newcomers too.
How 'bout the Anglo-Saxons that make up most of Britain? They are relative newcomers too.
Please. The British hadn't left the area more than 5 minutes before a ship of muslims arrived on the horizon to start killing the Jews. They never tried living in peace with the Jews.
Rick, I'm failing to see your point. Are you asking if the people of European decent can claim the US as their homeland??
Martin: I'm sure you did enjoy it up there. Most people don't give the southern Appalachian Mountains or the inhabitants credit for being as beautiful as they are. Did you just stay on the Cherokee Reservation, or did you adventure around the area outside of it also? I really wish I had gotten more info about that part of my bloodline before my granny died...I would like to find out what her mothers Indian name was...but I haven't succeeded yet.
I've been trying to convince some relatives to travel up there w/ me to mess around but they don't care to. I also have been thinking about doing humanitarian work up on the reservation or in one of the other mountain communities in Tn or Ky.
I don't know if they have PBS where you live or not, but at some time this Fall they are going to have a documentary about the culture and people of the southern Appalachians. I can't wait to see it, it's not going to be full of the negative stereotypes that are accustom to being told about the area. A lot of people from that are have Cherokee in them, so they might go to the reservation, I'm not sure though.
hasta luego
Rick, I'm failing to see your point. Are you asking if the people of European decent can claim the US as their homeland??
Martin: I'm sure you did enjoy it up there. Most people don't give the southern Appalachian Mountains or the inhabitants credit for being as beautiful as they are. Did you just stay on the Cherokee Reservation, or did you adventure around the area outside of it also? I really wish I had gotten more info about that part of my bloodline before my granny died...I would like to find out what her mothers Indian name was...but I haven't succeeded yet.
I've been trying to convince some relatives to travel up there w/ me to mess around but they don't care to. I also have been thinking about doing humanitarian work up on the reservation or in one of the other mountain communities in Tn or Ky.
I don't know if they have PBS where you live or not, but at some time this Fall they are going to have a documentary about the culture and people of the southern Appalachians. I can't wait to see it, it's not going to be full of the negative stereotypes that are accustom to being told about the area. A lot of people from that are have Cherokee in them, so they might go to the reservation, I'm not sure though.
hasta luego
Reverend Blair said:
Actually the "Palestinians" are a new people composed mostly of Arabs from Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt. They are descendents of migrant workers who came to the area to take jobs created by the Jews who were developing the land. Before the Zionists started coming in in larger numbers in the late 1800's, the land was sparsely populated, inhabited mostly by Beduin nomads.
Up until the mid 20th century, when one spoke of a "Palestinian", one was speaking of a Jew.
Did you know that the so-called Palestinian Refugees living in squalor in the camps of the West Bank were never "evicted" by the Israelis. They were encouraged to leave of their own volition by the Arab armies who feared for them getting caught in the crossfire as they "pushed the Jews into the sea". Contrast this with the Millions of Jews who had to flee Arab countries
RE: Anti-Canadianism and
History does not bear you out, Just the Facts. Historic texts refer to many different people living in the area we now call Israel. That includes a sizable Jewish population that never left. It's very odd that there are still Samaritan rituals practiced in Palestine if the Palestinians are newcomers, for instance....the Samaritans are known to have been peers of the Jews back into biblical times.
When the European powers decided to establish a Jewish state the area wasn't empty...people were living there just as people live everywhere. Some of those people might have been relative newcomers, but many had always been there.
The establishment of Israel...something I agree should have been done, BTW...was poorly handled from the start. It was not negotiated, the land was not paid for. An edict was issued and the people living there were subjugated. They fought back.
There have been crimes committed on both sides...terrorist acts, attempted genocides, and constant rhetoric that has polarised things beyond all sanity.
None of that is going to be resolved by backing Irael over Palestine or vice versa. It can be resolved by the establishment of a Palestinian state and Isreal pulling back to their pre-1967 borders. Get the agreements made, get the compromises, get the treaties signed.
History does not bear you out, Just the Facts. Historic texts refer to many different people living in the area we now call Israel. That includes a sizable Jewish population that never left. It's very odd that there are still Samaritan rituals practiced in Palestine if the Palestinians are newcomers, for instance....the Samaritans are known to have been peers of the Jews back into biblical times.
When the European powers decided to establish a Jewish state the area wasn't empty...people were living there just as people live everywhere. Some of those people might have been relative newcomers, but many had always been there.
The establishment of Israel...something I agree should have been done, BTW...was poorly handled from the start. It was not negotiated, the land was not paid for. An edict was issued and the people living there were subjugated. They fought back.
There have been crimes committed on both sides...terrorist acts, attempted genocides, and constant rhetoric that has polarised things beyond all sanity.
None of that is going to be resolved by backing Irael over Palestine or vice versa. It can be resolved by the establishment of a Palestinian state and Isreal pulling back to their pre-1967 borders. Get the agreements made, get the compromises, get the treaties signed.
Re: RE: Anti-Canadianism and
Nothing here contradicts what I said. If I implied that "Palestinians" are a rigorously homogenous makeup of people, then I apologize. Considering Samaria is a major part of the West Bank, I'm not surprised there may be the occasional Samaritan ritual. Still, Samaritan hardly equates with Palestinian. My only point was meant to be that who we refer to today as Palestinians is a new designation not much more than 50 years old. The vast majority are immigrant Arabs similar to the majority of immigrant Jews in Israel. I once saw Arafat make the claim that the Palestinians were the descendants of the Biblical Philistines, which is patently false. Apparently Arafat himself, who is Egyptian, BTW, is as confused as we are about the Palestinian heritage.
True. Jews and Arabs both were coming into the area well before 1948.
Agreed. Look at a map of Palestine in 1947. Then compare the size of Israel in 1948 with the size of TransJordan in 1948. Then tell me who got shafted and should be "fighting back".
I'm pretty sure Israel has agreed, albeit reluctantly, but for the promise of peace still agreed, to such terms. Can you say Oslo? What happened to that? Even Bush's roadmap had the establishment of a Palestinian state as the end game. What's the hold up?
Israel was behind it's pre-1967 borders in, well, pre-1967. So what was that war about? Israel began pulling out of the West Bank in the 1990's, and promply came under attack by rockets and suicide bombers. Agreements have been made, Israel has compromised, treaties have been signed. Still we have war. What gives?
Sharon had the audacity to visit the temple mount, so it's all over, all deals are off? It just doesn't make sense. Unless you consider that Arafat and his cronies, the PA, Hamas, Hizballah, etc, don't want a state, they want Israel. Then it all starts coming together.
Reverend Blair said:
Nothing here contradicts what I said. If I implied that "Palestinians" are a rigorously homogenous makeup of people, then I apologize. Considering Samaria is a major part of the West Bank, I'm not surprised there may be the occasional Samaritan ritual. Still, Samaritan hardly equates with Palestinian. My only point was meant to be that who we refer to today as Palestinians is a new designation not much more than 50 years old. The vast majority are immigrant Arabs similar to the majority of immigrant Jews in Israel. I once saw Arafat make the claim that the Palestinians were the descendants of the Biblical Philistines, which is patently false. Apparently Arafat himself, who is Egyptian, BTW, is as confused as we are about the Palestinian heritage.
True. Jews and Arabs both were coming into the area well before 1948.
Agreed. Look at a map of Palestine in 1947. Then compare the size of Israel in 1948 with the size of TransJordan in 1948. Then tell me who got shafted and should be "fighting back".
I'm pretty sure Israel has agreed, albeit reluctantly, but for the promise of peace still agreed, to such terms. Can you say Oslo? What happened to that? Even Bush's roadmap had the establishment of a Palestinian state as the end game. What's the hold up?
Israel was behind it's pre-1967 borders in, well, pre-1967. So what was that war about? Israel began pulling out of the West Bank in the 1990's, and promply came under attack by rockets and suicide bombers. Agreements have been made, Israel has compromised, treaties have been signed. Still we have war. What gives?
Sharon had the audacity to visit the temple mount, so it's all over, all deals are off? It just doesn't make sense. Unless you consider that Arafat and his cronies, the PA, Hamas, Hizballah, etc, don't want a state, they want Israel. Then it all starts coming together.
RE: Anti-Canadianism and
They don't want Israel though, they want Palestine. That includes not just a separate state, but free passage from the West Bank to Gaza and a say in their long-standing religious monuments even if those monumnets are outside of their land.
As for where Arafat is from...need I remind you that most of our founding fathers were British or that the British monarchy spoke German until quite recently?
If a leader's pedigree is an issue, then Arnie should not be Govermor of California and Tommy Douglas should never have been allowed into politics.
They don't want Israel though, they want Palestine. That includes not just a separate state, but free passage from the West Bank to Gaza and a say in their long-standing religious monuments even if those monumnets are outside of their land.
As for where Arafat is from...need I remind you that most of our founding fathers were British or that the British monarchy spoke German until quite recently?
If a leader's pedigree is an issue, then Arnie should not be Govermor of California and Tommy Douglas should never have been allowed into politics.
Re: RE: Anti-Canadianism and
C'mon Rev, that's just nonsensical obfuscation. It's not even a fallacy of equivocation because there's not even equivocation. Does Arnie claim that his forefathers lived in California since Biblical times? If Arafat ran for President of Israel and was duly elected then I'd say all the power to 'im.
Reverend Blair said:
C'mon Rev, that's just nonsensical obfuscation. It's not even a fallacy of equivocation because there's not even equivocation. Does Arnie claim that his forefathers lived in California since Biblical times? If Arafat ran for President of Israel and was duly elected then I'd say all the power to 'im.