Amnesty International Report "Operation Cast Lead" - 22 days of death and destruction

ironsides

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Are you trying to say that the Palestinians do not use human shields, take hostages, murder, torture Israeli citizens. Palestinians shoot at Israeli soldiers from within (Ever try to tell a friendly Palestinian from Hamas.) crowds, fire at them from hospital windows, hide in civilian homes taking shots at Israeli soldiers. You do what has to be done to win a war, even if it means lowering your personal standards some. Somebody shoots at my home, I don't care where they are hiding when I shoot back. The Arabs declared war against Israel, well guess what, they have themselves a war. A.I is no friend of Israel, and has been bias against from the start. It is not a fair and impartial organization to tell anyone what is right or wrong.
 

earth_as_one

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Are you trying to say that the Palestinians do not use human shields, take hostages, murder, torture Israeli citizens. Palestinians shoot at Israeli soldiers from within (Ever try to tell a friendly Palestinian from Hamas.) crowds, fire at them from hospital windows, hide in civilian homes taking shots at Israeli soldiers. You do what has to be done to win a war, even if it means lowering your personal standards some. Somebody shoots at my home, I don't care where they are hiding when I shoot back. The Arabs declared war against Israel, well guess what, they have themselves a war. A.I is no friend of Israel, and has been bias against from the start. It is not a fair and impartial organization to tell anyone what is right or wrong.

I'll take your refusal to debate Israel's actions in the above cases as an admission that you are aware Israel committed war crimes.

Your beliefs about what happened during this conflict are not supported by evidence. Both AI and the UN investigated Israel's claims about Palestinian militants using Palestinian civilians as human shields and found no evidence to support these claims.

From AI's Report
...contrary to repeated allegations by Israeli officials of the use of “human shields”,
Amnesty International found no evidence that Hamas or other Palestinian fighters directed
the movement of civilians to shield military objectives from attacks. It found no evidence that
Hamas or other armed groups forced residents to stay in or around buildings used by fighters,
nor that fighters prevented residents from leaving buildings or areas which had been
commandeered by militants...
From the UN report:
...The Mission found no evidence, however, to suggest that Palestinian armed groups either directed civilians to areas where attacks were being launched or that they forced civilians to remain within the vicinity of the attacks...
Palestinian militants did commit war crimes. Just not the ones you listed. They fired rockets indiscriminately at Israeli civilians. But lets put that in perspective. Palestinian war crimes resulted in 4 deaths. Three civilians and one soldier.

Compare that to Israel's war crimes. From the AI report:
...some 1,400 Palestinians had been killed, including some 300 children and
hundreds of other unarmed civilians, and large areas of Gaza had been razed to the ground,
leaving many thousands homeless and the already dire economy in ruins.

Much of the destruction was wanton and resulted from direct attacks on civilian objects as
well as indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between legitimate military targets
and civilian objects. Such attacks violated fundamental provisions of international
humanitarian law, notably the prohibition on direct attacks on civilians and civilian objects
(the principle of distinction), the prohibition on indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks,
and the prohibition on collective punishment.

Hundreds of civilians were killed in attacks carried out using high-precision weapons – airdelivered
bombs and missiles, and tank shells. Others, including women and children, were
shot at short range when posing no threat to the lives of the Israeli soldiers. Aerial
bombardments launched from Israeli F-16 combat aircraft targeted and destroyed civilian
homes without warning, killing and injuring scores of their inhabitants, often while they slept.

Children playing on the roofs of their homes or in the street and other civilians going about
their daily business, as well as medical staff attending the wounded were killed in broad
daylight by Hellfire and other highly accurate missiles launched from helicopters and
unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), or drones, and by precision projectiles fired from tanks...
Its apparent from reading these reports and testimony by Israeli soldiers that the Israeli military entered Gaza looking for a fight and Palestinian militants went into hiding. For the most part, the Israeli military encounter little to no resistance in Gaza. Most Palestinian civilian deaths were not the result of Palestinian militants attacking Israeli soldiers from hospital windows or residential areas as you believe but from incidents like these:

From AI
...Israeli tanks often fired into Palestinian houses up to 2km
or more away, killing scores of unarmed civilians, many of them children and women. In all
the cases investigated by Amnesty International, the victims were neither caught in the
crossfire of battles between soldiers and militants, nor were they shielding militants. The
pattern is of single tank rounds, not a barrage, fired into homes whose occupants were going
about their normal activities – a further indication that there were no battles raging nearby....
From the UN Report:
...On 15 January 2009, the UNRWA field office compound in Gaza
City came under shelling with high explosive and white phosphorous munitions. The Mission
notes that the attack was extremely dangerous, as the compound offered shelter to between 600
and 700 civilians and contained a huge fuel depot. The Israeli forces continued the attack over
several hours in spite of having been fully alerted to the risks they created. The Mission
concludes that Israeli armed forces violated the customary international law requirement to take
all feasible precautions in the choice of means and method of attack with a view to avoiding and
in any event minimizing incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian
objects.

39. The Mission also finds that, on the same day, the Israeli forces directly and intentionally
attacked the Al Quds Hospital in Gaza City and the adjacent ambulance depot with white
phosphorous shells. The attack caused fires which took a whole day to extinguish and caused
panic among the sick and wounded who had to be evacuated. The Mission finds that no warning
was given at any point of an imminent strike. On the basis of its investigation, the Mission
rejects the allegation that fire was directed at Israeli forces from within the hospital.
...
Your beliefs about what happened are not supported by the facts.

While the militants tried to keep a low profile, occasionally Israeli soldiers were able to locate them. When cornered, Palestinian militants did fight back. In many cases Israel used chemical weapons to force the militants to take cover and then razed the area with heavy artillery and high explosives.

Gaza is one of the world's most densely populated areas. The above activity frequently resulted in high civilian casualty rates. Both the UN and AI determined that Israel's actions were indiscriminate and excessive. Their failure to take precautions and/or use more precise weaponry in their possession to minimize civilian casualty rates were war crimes.

From the AI Report
...Artillery in general and white phosphorus shells in particular should never be used in
populated areas.2 Yet in Gaza Israeli forces repeatedly fired them into densely populated
residential areas, knowing that such imprecise weapons would kill and injure civilians. Such
attacks were indiscriminate and as such unlawful under international law.

The scale and intensity of the attacks were unprecedented, even in the context of the
increasingly lethal Israeli military campaigns in Gaza in previous years.3 More Palestinians
were killed and more properties were destroyed in the 22-day military campaign than in any
previous Israeli offensive.

Israeli forces could not conceivably have been unaware of the presence of civilians in
locations which were repeatedly attacked, including with white phosphorus and other
imprecise weapons, given that these areas were under close surveillance by Israeli drones.
Even though Israeli officials knew from the first days of Operation “Cast Lead” that civilians
were killed and wounded in significant numbers, Israeli forces continued to employ the same
tactics for the entire duration of the 22-day offensive, resulting in growing numbers of
civilian casualties. The pattern of attacks and the resulting high number of civilian fatalities
and casualties showed elements of reckless conduct, disregard for civilian lives and property
and a consistent failure to distinguish between military targets and civilians and civilian
objects....
Your comments indicate that you haven't read these reports and are ignorant of the evidence regarding Israeli war crimes. Most of your beliefs appear to be based on misinformation from Israeli propaganda sources.
 
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ironsides

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I expect nothing impartial from A.I., the true facts of what is happening speak for themselves. Israel is doing what it has to do. You want the war to end, let Israel do what it must.

[SIZE=+1]The Geneva Convention on PLO terrorists who fire from among civilians[/SIZE]
The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favor or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.
[SIZE=+1]The Geneva Convention on the PLO's practice of recruiting young teenagers to attack the Israelis[/SIZE]
The Parties to the conflict shall take all feasible measures in order that children who have not attained the age of fifteen years do not take a direct part in hostilities and, in particular, they shall refrain from recruiting them into their armed forces.
A recent item in the Wall Street Journal said that the UN had condemned Israeli air attacks on PLO terrorists. The UN remains silent when PLO terrorists kill Israeli women and children; it is obvious where the UN stands.
[SIZE=+2]Palestinian Authority and PLO War Crimes[/SIZE]
  1. [SIZE=+1]Palestinians use church as a fighting position[/SIZE]
    "About 300 Palestinians, nearly all of them armed, have been holed up in the shrine [Church of the Nativity, "built over the site where tradition says Jesus was born and one of Christianity's major shrines"] since Tuesday..." [Ibrahim Hazboun, Associated Press writer, 4 April 2002] The PLO tactic is obvious. Their gunmen shoot at the Israelis. If the Israelis return the fire, they will damage one of Christianity's holiest shrines.
  2. [SIZE=+1]Palestinian ambulance driver transports explosives[/SIZE]
    "Reserve soldiers at a mobile roadblock today captured a Palestinian Red Crescent ambulance driver who was caught transporting an explosive belt of the type detonated by suicide bombers, Israel Radio reported." Jerusalem Post, 28 March, 2002. Abuse of the Red Cross or Red Crescent in this manner is, I believe, a capital war crime.
  3. [SIZE=+1]Palestinians use wheelchair-bound man as cover[/SIZE]
    From Aruz 7
    Lt.-Col. Tal, who lives in a Jezreel Valley with his wife and three daughters, fought in the recent anti-terrorism offensive in Jenin.
    "At one point, Palestinians booby trapped a wheelchair and pushed its occupant into the open in hope of attracting Israeli soldiers to become victims..."
  4. [SIZE=+1]Palestinians dress in Israeli uniforms, murder young girl[/SIZE]
    Sudarsan Raghavan, Knight Ridder-Newspapers, 28 April 2002 "Disguised gunmen kill 4: Girl, 5, among victims of terrorists in Israeli army uniforms"
    1. ADORA, West Bank
      Palestinian terrorists dressed as Israeli soldiers slipped into a quiet Israeli settlement near Hebron Saturday morning...
      The gunmen entered the home of 5-year-old Danielle Sheffi, who lived with her parents and three siblings. After they left, the little girl's room-- decorated with a Micky Mouse doll, bed sheet, and poster-- was scattered with bullet holes and stained with blood.
      Danielle died instantly.
  1. From "World War II" at World War II
    1. (Dec. 16, 1944 - Jan. 25, 1945)
      A special Nazi unit (under Col. Otto Skorzeny) disguised as Americans penetrated the rear, disrupting communications and transportation. They spoke perfect english and once caught they were to say that thousands of German SS soldiers had infiltrated dressed as American soldiers in a special mission. This slowed American movement because now every soldier was stopped at checkpoints and asked American questions to see if he was a real American. Thousands were arrested because they did not know the height of the Empire State building for example. However, under the Geneva Convention, German soldiers in American uniforms were not protected and thus any caught was executed on the spot. The Germans were forced to abandon this successful mission because of the American executions.
    "Executed on the spot" sounds like they didn't even bother with a court-martial, let alone a "tribunal" of the type for which some people are criticizing President Bush.
  2. [SIZE=+1]War crimes against Americans[/SIZE]
    Read the following and recall that piracy (to which these events are similar) was once dealt with by immediate court-martial and, upon conviction, prompt execution of the perpetrators.
    1. The first American to be murdered by a PLO-sponsored group was Shirley Anderson on June 17, 1969. Since then, PLO groups have murdered more than 60 American citizens and wounded at least as many. Among the dead were two ambassadors, an Olympic athlete, tourists, business persons and students.
    1. ...Americans were murdered in numerous ways by PLO members. Eight were killed when their Swissair jet was blown up enroute to Tel Aviv, others died in bus and car bombings or were shot. Especially shocking were the ax-murder of a student (1975) and the brutal murder of Leon Klinghoffer, a wheelchair-bound elderly tourist on the hijacked Achille Lauro (1985). Guest Editorial: Remembering the many American victims of Arafat's terrorist network
      By William J. Daugherty, Ph.D. Armstrong Atlantic State University
  1. Palestinian War Crimes
    Hamas' war crimes
    In Gaza, it targets Israeli citizens with rockets, then shields its fighters behind Palestinian civilians.
    Atemporary cease-fire in Gaza that simply allows Hamas to obtain more lethal weapons will assure a repetition of Hamas' win-win tactic of firing rockets at Israeli civilians while using Palestinian civilians as human shields.

    The best example of Hamas' double war crime tactic was Tuesday, when it succeeded in sending a rocket to a town less than 20 miles south of Tel Aviv and injuring a child. At the same time, it provoked Israel to attack a United Nations school from which Hamas was launching its rockets. Residents of the neighborhood said two Hamas fighters were in the area at the time, and the Israeli military said they had been killed, according to the New York Times.

    The Hamas tactic of firing rockets from schools, hospitals and mosques dates back to 2005, when Israel ended its occupation of Gaza. Several months ago, the head of the Israeli air force showed me a videotape (now available on YouTube) of a Hamas terrorist deliberately moving his rocket launcher to the front of a U.N. school, firing a rocket and then running away, no doubt hoping that Israel would then respond by attacking the rocket launcher and thus killing Palestinian children in the school.
    Hamas' war crimes - latimes.com

    The Israeli-Palestinian conflict - War crimes
 

earth_as_one

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Your first link is broken.

The second link take you to this website:

From the home page
For the 2008 Elections: Please Help Spread the Word
Barack Obama: Powered by HATE. A compilation of Obama's promotion of racists, anti-Semites, and other bigots, along with unethical and possibly illegal fundraising.


[SIZE=+1]"All propaganda has to be popular and has to adapt its spiritual level to the perception of the least intelligent of those towards whom it intends to direct itself"[/SIZE] (Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. I). Hitler proved himself right by gaining control of an entire country and then leading it to total ruin. The lesson is not that Hitler is a desirable role model but rather that his methods worked. If effective propaganda can get the people to believe the biggest whopper you can tell, the corrollary is that, if you are going to tell the truth, you had better use equally effective methods. This is the mission of Stentorian.com.

The Stentorian: For the Preservation of Liberty and Individual Freedom
The third was to the Jpost, an Israeli newspaper. Probably your most reputable reference.

Links 4 and 5 were to a person's website in geocities.

6 was an opinion piece from a local US newspaper.

Your seventh link was by far the most entertaining:

Omdurman.org: Defending Civilization

Mission Statement
A world with no room for the Gordons is a world that will return to the sands.
--Closing line to the movie Khartoum and a fitting epitaph for General Charles Gordon, "Khartoum Pasha," who died holding the line between Civilization and Chaos.

Omdurman.org's mission to preventing Civilization from returning to the sands under the onslaught of Islamic supremacy, which is to Islam what white supremacy is to Caucasian skin color....

Omdurman.org: exposing Islamic Supremacist and Palestinian terror

Eight was another opinion piece.

and number nine:

MarkHumphrys.com

Writings on Politics and Religion by Mark Humphrys


  • Pro-free private life: Atheist. Pro-science. Pro-reason. Pro-free speech. Pro-liberal democracy.
  • Pro-free economic life: Pro-capitalist. Pro-West.
  • Pro-interventionist: Anti-isolationist. End tyranny everywhere. End communism. End Islamic law.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Now you know how most of Amnesty Internationals so called investigations and condemnations sound as well as other sources. I just quoted extreme right as you quote extreme left. The extreme right pretty much said the same things, though not as nice as how the left words it. Meanings are the same, hate of one group or another, siding with one group or another.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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Now you are being ridiculous.

Amnesty International is a worldwide movement of people who campaign for internationally recognized human rights to be respected and protected for everyone.

We believe human rights abuses anywhere are the concern of people everywhere. So, outraged by human rights abuses but inspired by hope for a better world, we work to improve people’s lives through campaigning and international solidarity.

Our mission is to conduct research and generate action to prevent and end grave abuses of human rights and to demand justice for those whose rights have been violated.

Our members and supporters exert influence on governments, political bodies, companies and intergovernmental groups.

Activists take up human rights issues by mobilizing public pressure through mass demonstrations, vigils and direct lobbying as well as online and offline campaigning.

About Amnesty International | Amnesty International
How many of your sources have hundreds of thousands of members and won a Nobel Peace prize?

Amnesty International The Nobel Peace Prize 1977
Nobel Lecture, December 11, 1977 by Mümtaz Soysal

We are gratified that the Nobel Committee should see fit to award the 1977 Peace Prize to the 168,000 individuals in 107 countries who comprise the active members and supporters of Amnesty International. I am here in their name.

We are gratified for this acknowledgement that the concern for peace and the promotion of human rights are inseparable. Peace is not to be measured by the absence of conventional war, but constructed upon foundations of justice. Where there is injustice, there is the seed of conflict. Where human rights are violated, there are threats to peace....

Amnesty International - Nobel Lecture

Over the years, I've come to trust Amnesty International as a objective source of information regarding human rights.
 

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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Ok, I will stop fooling around and get serious. Sorry I used such extreme sources before. The reasons as to why, what should be done still does not change. Until Hamas leaves Gaza there will be no peace. I even question who gave Amnesty International the power, the right to say just what a internationally recognized human right should be. Over the years, I have learned to distrust both Amnesty International and the United Nations. One is bias and the other is inept.


Israel says Goldstone Report supports terror
Israel has described the Goldstone Commission Report as biased and nauseating, and added that it has created an unjust "equivalence of a democratic state with a terror organization".
The commission, established by the UN Human Rights Council and led by former South African constitutional court judge Richard Goldstone, concluded that "Israel committed actions amounting to war crimes, possibly crimes against humanity," during Operation Cast Lead from late December to mid-January. Again, no mention of Palestinian terrorist and or rocket attacks against Israel the provoked what Israel had to do.

Israel says Goldstone Report supports terror


Israeli-Palestinian mistrust must be overcome, Annan says

“The Gaza Strip has become a cauldron of deepening poverty and frustration, despite the withdrawal of Israeli troops and settlements last year. In the West Bank, too, the situation is dire. Palestinians are deeply dismayed at settlement activity, with thousands of Israelis still living in territories occupied in 1967 and more than 1,000 more added every month,” he said.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=21005&Cr=palestin&Cr1=

1967
War between Israel and the Arab countries of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan. Palestinian terrorist attacks on Israel from bases in Syria led to increased hostility between the two countries. A series of miscalculations by both sides followed. Syria feared that an invasion by Israel was forthcoming and appealed to Egypt for support. Egypt answered by ordering the withdrawal of UN peacekeeping forces from the Sinai Peninsula and by moving troops into the area. Amid increasingly belligerent language from both sides, Egypt signed a mutual defense treaty with Jordan. Israel, surrounded and fearing an Arab attack was imminent, launched what it felt was a preemptive strike against the three Arab states on June 5, 1967. Israeli forces captured the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza Strip, West Bank of the Jordan River, Old City of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. Israel did give back to Egypt the Sinai Peninsula. The status of the occupied territories subsequently became a major point of contention between the two sides. Israel had no choice but to strike first, the UN was for sure not going to help them.


The Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip is not under Israeli occupation. Israel fully redeployed from the Gaza Strip in August 2005, uprooting Israeli 8,000 settlers from their homes and removing its military installations. Israel took this step in order to improve quality of life and in the hope that the Palestinians would govern Gaza responsibly and peacefully. Three and a half years later, the Hamas leadership has turned Gaza into an armed camp and a launching pad for terrorism and extremism targeting Israeli civilians.

Moreover, Hamas' openly declared strategy does not focus on the West Bank or Gaza Strip, but calls for the complete eradication of the State of Israel. Its ultimate objective is the establishment of an Islamic Palestinian state ruled by Islamic theocratic law in place of the State of Israel. The Hamas
covenant, issued in 1988, is replete with anti-Semitism, and echoes the notorious Protocols of the Elders of Zion which charges Jews with an international conspiracy to gain control of the world. In Hamas' world-view, Islamic precepts forbid a Jewish state in the area known as Palestine, and the Jewish people have no legitimate connection to the land of Israel. As its covenant proclaims, "The land of Palestine is an Islamic trust... It is forbidden to anyone to yield or concede any part of it... Israel will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it..." To this end, the leaders of Hamas have denounced compromise with Israel as a betrayal of the Palestinian cause.
Hamas bears sole responsibility for the situation in the Gaza Strip. It cynically and deliberately put ordinary Palestinians in harms way by establishing its terrorist infrastructure – manufacturing, storage, training and strategic planning – within densely populated areas, in the midst of homes, schools, mosques and hospitals. For eight years it launched thousands of rocket attacks at Israeli population centers. Since the start of Israel's operation on December 27, more than 800 rockets and mortars have attacked Israel. On December 30, Hamas rockets reached the Israeli city of Beer Sheva. On January 6, rockets hit the central Israeli city of Gadera. Today, more than 900,000 Israeli civilians live with range of Hamas rocket attacks.

Israel's Operation in Gaza: Frequently Asked Questions


Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah's promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him…
"The so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad…Since when did the Unbelievers do justice to the Believers? 'And the Jews will not be pleased with thee, nor will the Christians, till thou follow their creed….' There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad….

http://www.adl.org/main_Israel/hamas_charter.htm





 

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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Do we bet that Hamas releases the soldier or not. I think it is another futile gesture on Israel's part to offer an olive branch to animals. Sorry, shouldn't have said that, I like animals.
"JERUSALEM – Israel and Hamas militants announced a deal Wednesday that will see Israel release 20 Palestinian women from prison this week in exchange for a videotape proving that a captive Israeli soldier held in the Gaza Strip is still alive.
The decision was the first tangible sign of movement in more than three years of talks over the release of the soldier, Sgt. Gilad Schalit, who has not been seen since he was captured by Hamas-linked militants in a cross-border raid in June, 2006.
Schalit's release, which does not appear imminent, would defuse a central point of contention and could help ease a crippling Israeli blockade on the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip."
Israel moves closer to freeing captive soldier - Yahoo! News
 

earth_as_one

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Jan 5, 2006
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Cannuck,

Please comment on this Haaretz (Israeli News) story:

Quote: Gazans detained in 'giant pit' during Cast Lead
By Amira Hass

Forty Palestinians from the Gaza Strip were incarcerated in Israel Prison Service facilities during Operation Cast Lead at the beginning of this year, and 21 are still in prison. That's a very small number, compared to the many hundreds the Israel Defense Forces arrested in Gaza, and as compared with the hundreds who were transferred for interrogation to various detention facilities in Israel before being released.

Samir al-Attar, 38, is one of the 40; his eldest son Hussein, 13, spent three days together in a makeshift prison. The father was then placed on a truck and the son was released. "Is the boy still traumatized by the arrest?" the father was asked this week by telephone. "Not all that much," he replied. "What Hussein saw when he was let out made him forget the ordeal of the arrest."

Separated from his father, the boy started to walk home. Their neighborhood was empty, many of the houses had been destroyed or were riddled with bullet holes, and the fields, groves and hothouses were leveled. The sound of shelling accompanied Hussein all the time; an Israeli sniper could be lurking behind every window.

"The boy reached our house. All the windows were smashed. He did not find anyone and thought they had all been killed - his mother, his grandmother and his five brothers and sisters," Samir related.

Frightened and virtually alone in a ghost town, the boy wandered about aimlessly. It was not until the following day that he ran into a relative, who led him four kilometers by foot to a school where his family had taken shelter. "That fear," his father says, "is still eating him."

The mass arrests did not become a major topic of conversation in the Gaza Strip: Uncertainty about the fate of loved ones and shock at the scale of the killing and destruction overshadowed the experience of being detained.

Samir himself was released only two and a half months after being arrested. A farmer, who before being arrested supplemented his income by serving as a driver for Kamal Shrafi, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' adviser on human rights (and a former member of the Palestinian Legislative Council).

On Monday, January 5, IDF soldiers had already begun to shoot directly at Samir al-Attar's home and not just around it. He and his family fled. His wife waved a white cloth; he held their sons of 5 and 7 in his arms. He spotted 50 soldiers in front of the house. The soldiers ordered them to put their hands up. The soldiers fired between their legs, al-Attar said on the phone this week, then one searched him. One hand was handcuffed to Hussein's hand, and the two were then blindfolded and taken to a neighboring house, along with another 10 detainees.

"The soldiers treated us well in the house, but did not give us food or water, and let us use the toilet only once," Samir stated in an affidavit he submitted on January 14 in Ketziot, to attorney Maher Talhami from the Public Committee against Torture in Israel (PCAT).

At 5 P.M. the two were taken, again on foot, in a convoy, still blindfolded and handcuffed to each other, to an area in which the IDF had massed tanks and bulldozers. This is called a "defensive zone" in army lingo - a jora (hole) by residents, and a "dugout" by the PCAT. It was a man-made crater of about two dunams (half an acre), two to three meters deep and surrounded by mounds of the sand that had been removed to create it, which rose up to three meters high - "higher than the bulldozers," al-Attar said on Wednesday. Previously the site had been a vegetable patch.

It was beginning to get dark, but there was a little light from the tank headlights. "The tanks were then firing shells at Beit Lahiya," al-Attar stated in the affidavit. At the soldiers' order, the prisoners descended carefully, holding on to one another, their eyes still covered. In the crater, the soldiers handcuffed his son separately. There were already detainees there, and more arrived during the next two days. When his group arrived, the soldiers enclosed them with concertina wire.

"Not until Tuesday morning did they give every two people a single blanket, against the bitter cold," al-Attar told Talhami. "We were handcuffed during the whole period and sat on the sand." (Their eyes were covered, too, he would say on the phone - a detail he had forgotten to add in the affidavit. Occasionally they shifted the strip of flannel a little so they could see.) "The soldiers gave us food (pita and mortadella sausage) once or twice a day. We would ask for water and sometimes they would bring it long after." ("Another five minutes, they would say, and bring it two or three hours later," he explained on the phone.) "There was no toilet there and we were not given sanitary products such as toilet paper."

When someone could no longer hold himself in, he moved away and relieved himself. People who wanted to pray also moved to the side but, al-Attar said on the phone, no one dared to kneel in front of the soldiers, because "the fear was great." The soldiers - on the other side of the concertina wire, where there were also dogs - shouted at the detainees to shut them up when they heard them talking.

Al-Attar: "The tanks were 10 meters from us and they shelled and fired day and night. Even if we had wanted to, we could not sleep because of the noise, the cold and the fear. I hugged Hussein and told him not to be afraid, that it would all be over in a day or two, that we would not die. But inside I was terribly worried. There were four women and 10 children under the age of 14 with us. They were also handcuffed and blindfolded."....

Amira Hass / Gazans detained in 'giant pit' during Cast Lead - Haaretz - Israel News

The above story is supported by evidence in these two reports:

Report of the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict
A/HRC/12/48 of 15 September 2009

and

Amnesty International
ISRAEL/GAZA
OPERATION ‘CAST LEAD’:
22 DAYS OF DEATH AND
DESTRUCTION
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/a...a74-4853-860f-0563725e633a/mde150152009en.pdf

According to your "standards" does shielding a tank actively engaged in combat with handcuffed children qualify as war crime?

Do any Israeli actions contained in these two reports constitute war crimes?

Summary Israeli actions as detailed by these two reports:
Israeli forces were responsible for 1,387-1,417 deaths, most of whom were civilians.

Israeli forces deliberately attacked Palestinian civilians, civilian infrastructure and buildings in violation of international law.

Among Israel's deliberate civilian targets were UN shelters filled with women and children, hospitals, ambulances and police stations. In all but one case, these attacks did not pursue any justifiable military target.

Israeli forces used chemical weapons, heavy artillery and flechettes recklessly in densely populated areas in violation of international law.

Israeli forces deliberately attacked unarmed civilians carrying white flags, directed civilians to take shelter in buildings which were subsequently bombed and many other examples of direct targeting and arbitrary killing of unarmed civilians. Israeli forces deliberately destroyed industrial infrastructure, food production, sewage and water treatment facilities. They wantonly bulldozed farms and buildings for livestock not justified by any military objective or necessity. They also systematically leveled many residential areas completely absent of any military objective or any link to combat activity.

Detained Palestinian civilians were subjected to humiliation, physical and mental abuse. Detained civilians including women and children were held in degrading conditions and deprived of food, water or access to sanitary facilities and exposed to the elements without shelter for extended periods of time. Israeli forces interrogated civilians under threat of death or injury to extract information about Palestinian combatants.

Israeli soldiers used Palestinian civilians as human shields. Detained civilians were used to shield Israeli tank and artillery positions, command posts and sniper positions. Israeli soldiers forced Palestinian civilians to walk in front of them as they actively engaged Palestinian combatants and were sent into buildings to trigger booby traps and perform reconnaissance.
All the above is supported by evidence

Cannuck, according to your standards, do any of the above actions qualify as war crimes?
 

earth_as_one

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Do we bet that Hamas releases the soldier or not. I think it is another futile gesture on Israel's part to offer an olive branch to animals. Sorry, shouldn't have said that, I like animals...
Israel moves closer to freeing captive soldier - Yahoo! News
If Israelis treated animals as poorly as they treat Gazans, they would be accused of cruelty and have PETA on their case. So if these people are not humans and are less than animals, what are they?
 

Colpy

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If Israelis treated animals as poorly as they treat Gazans, they would be accused of cruelty and have PETA on their case. So if these people are not humans and are less than animals, what are they?

If one of my neighbours' cows was firing missiles into my backyard, I'd shoot the whole ****ing herd. :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
 
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earth_as_one

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If one of my neighbours' cows was firing missiles into my backyard, I'd shoot the whole ****ing herd. :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
Just to clarify, you advocate slaughtering 1.4 million people including women and children. I suppose that would be a "Final Solution" to this problem Herr Colpy.
 

Colpy

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Just to clarify, you advocate slaughtering 1.4 million people including women and children. I suppose that would be a "Final Solution" to this problem Herr Colpy.

Try LINEAR thought EAO.......

You said Israel treated the Palestinians worse than animals, a facetious and silly accusation......so, in the same spirit, I corrected you, by pointing out that Israel has NOT taken the steps that any sane person would if a herd of animals was trying to kill them.....therefore Israel is NOT treating the Palestinians worse than they treat animals.

I advocated nothing, nor was my post framed in such a manner that anyone sensible would conclude that I was advocating the slaughter of all Gazans.....far from it.....
 

earth_as_one

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I think your comment about shooting the entire herd is pretty self explanatory.

Also its illegal to starve pets (in Canada, the US and probably Israel too).

- This morning, PETA fired off a letter to District Attorney Jaime Esparza, urging his office to vigorously prosecute David Delgado and Lorena Murillo, both of El Paso. The couple faces charges stemming from authorities� reported March 21 discovery of nine malnourished dogs on their property. News sources state that little food was found at the residence and that the malnourished animals were suffering from skin and eye infections. �People who demonstrate such blatant disregard for life and desensitization to suffering can pose a serious risk to the people and animals with whom they come in contact,� says PETA Cruelty Caseworker Daniel Paden. �Mental health professionals and top law-enforcement officials consider cruelty to animals to be a red flag.�


PETA is asking that�if convicted and in addition to a period of incarceration�Delgado and Murillo be required to undergo thorough psychological evaluations followed by mandatory counseling. PETA is also urging authorities to seize any other animals currently in the couple�s custody and to prohibit them from owning or harboring animals in the future.


http://www.peta.org/mc/NewsItem.asp?id=4162
Most people would agree that starving your pets is cruel. Yet few people seem to care or notice when Israel does the same thing to 1.4 million people.

GAZA CITY, 21 April 2009 (IRIN) - Rising poverty, unemployment and food insecurity in Gaza, compounded by the recent 23-day Israeli offensive, have increased the threat of child malnutrition, say UN agencies, health ministry officials and healthcare NGOs in Gaza.

UN World Health Organization (WHO) officials are concerned by the warning signs, including rising malnutrition indicators - like increased cases of stunting, wasting and underweight children - and continuing high rates of anaemia among children and pregnant women.

A Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO)/World Food Programme (WFP) qualitative food security assessment for Gaza in 2008 and early 2009 points to increasing food insecurity compared to 2007, said FAO food security adviser Erminio Saco based in Jerusalem; and according to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) food acquisition and energy consumption in Gaza declined by 10 percent between 2005 and 2007.

Over the past 18 months the agricultural sector has been struggling to cope with an Israeli blockade on imports and exports, causing lower productivity and reducing access to affordable fresh food,
according to FAO.

Stunting


The UN Children’s Fund (UNICEF) said in January that 10.3 percent of children under five are stunted (low height for age), a steadily increasing trend over recent years.

Stunting is usually attributed to a chronic lack of protein and micronutrients, including iron and essential vitamins, according to WHO. “More than 10 percent of children in Gaza are chronically malnourished,” said WHO officer Mahmoud Daher in Gaza, reporting a slight increase over 2008.

Children’s hygiene has also declined due to the lack of a consistent electricity supply since the blockade was instituted. Clothes washing and bathing has been limited, especially during the conflict, according to residents.


In April 2008
UNICEF estimated there were about 255,000 under-five children in Gaza, with about 26,265 at risk of malnutrition, and 657 most likely to be severely wasted.

Roughly two-thirds of the population - 50 percent of whom are under 18 - is deemed food insecure, according to FAO....


http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/CB9A27EF05BB52408525759F0061B366
Imagine how much more cruel it would be if Israel was starving 1.4 million dogs and cats rather than "human beings". As far as I know, no Canadian leaders, or opeds in the MSM demand Israel ends the two year Gaza famine/plague and open the borders to food and medicine. I interpret their silence as tacit support.

Instead they are focused on an empty building in Iran.
 

Colpy

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I think your comment about shooting the entire herd is pretty self explanatory.

Also its illegal to starve pets (in Canada, the US and probably Israel too).

Most people would agree that starving your pets is cruel. Yet few people seem to care or notice when Israel does the same thing to 1.4 million people.

Imagine how much more cruel it would be if Israel was starving 1.4 million dogs and cats rather than "human beings". As far as I know, no Canadian leaders, or opeds in the MSM demand Israel ends the two year Gaza famine/plague and open the borders to food and medicine. I interpret their silence as tacit support.

Instead they are focused on an empty building in Iran.

You are losing it....posts on PETA???? Seek help.
 

earth_as_one

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Israel's blockade limits the amount of food to less than what is considered adequate for dogs and cats:

Sec. 3.9 Feeding.

(a) Dogs and cats must be fed at least once each day, except as

otherwise might be required to provide adequate veterinary care. The

food must be uncontaminated, wholesome, palatable, and of

sufficient quantity and nutritive value to maintain

the normal condition and weight

of the animal. The diet must be appropriate for the individual animal's

age and condition.



(b) Food receptacles must be used for dogs and cats, must be readily

accessible to all dogs and cats, and must be located so as to minimize

contamination by excreta and pests, and be protected from rain and snow.

Feeding pans must either be made of a durable material that can be

easily cleaned and sanitized or be disposable. If the food receptacles

are not disposable, they must be kept clean and must be sanitized in

accordance with Sec. 3.11(b) of this subpart. Sanitization is achieved

by using one of the methods described in Sec. 3.11(b)(3) of this

subpart. If the food receptacles are disposable, they must be discarded

after one use. Self-feeders may be used for the feeding of dry food. If

self-feeders are used, they must be kept clean and must be sanitized in

accordance with Sec. 3.11(b) of this subpart. Measures must be taken to

ensure that there is no molding, deterioration, and caking of feed.

Animal Welfare Act : Government and Professional Resources : Animal Welfare Information Center



Israel's blockade reduces food to the point where it does not meet the above standard.



...The UN Children’s Fund (UNICEF) said in January that 10.3 percent of children under five are stunted (low height for age), a steadily increasing trend over recent years.

Stunting is usually attributed to a chronic lack of protein and micronutrients, including iron and essential vitamins, according to WHO. “More than 10 percent of children in Gaza are chronically malnourished,” said WHO officer Mahmoud Daher in Gaza, reporting a slight increase over 2008.



Children’s hygiene has also declined due to the lack of a consistent electricity supply since the blockade was instituted. Clothes washing and bathing has been limited, especially during the conflict, according to residents.



In April 2008 UNICEF estimated there were about 255,000 under-five children in Gaza, with about 26,265 at risk of malnutrition, and 657 most likely to be severely wasted....

...Equipment and supplies needed for the construction, maintenance and operation of water and sanitation facilities have been denied entry to Gaza under the more that two-year Israeli blockade of the enclave, tightened after Hamas seized power in June 2007...

Israel says that for security reasons it cannot allow certain materials into Gaza.

Gaza’s wastewater infrastructure, which provides partial and intermittent water treatment, is also in desperate need of repair. Most sewage goes raw to lagoons and the sea, or seeps through the soil and reaches the aquifer, according to the World Bank report....

http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=86151



Gaza sewage 'a threat to Israel'

The UN's Maxwell Gaylard made his appeal by one of Gaza's sewage lakes

The UN and international aid agencies say Israel must relax its blockade of the Gaza Strip to allow urgent repairs to the water and sewage systems.

In a joint appeal, the bodies say the hazards to health and the environment threaten not only Gaza but Israel too.

More than 13m gallons (50m litres) of raw or partially treated sewage flows into the sea every day from Gaza because of a lack of treatment plants.

The cross-border aquifer is low and raw sewage floats back to Gaza and Israel.

Deadly flash flood

The UN says about 10,000 Gazans have no access to a water network - while about 60% of the 1.4m population receive water only intermittently....

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Gaza sewage 'a threat to Israel'

Israel has no minimum standard of care for Gazans. If Israel treated Gazans as well as the above standard for dogs and cats, Gaza's children would have far better health. They would not suffer stunted growth or disease resulting from water contaminated with excreta and lack of medicine.

Shame on Canada and the world for turning a blind eye to this deliberate crime against humanity.
 
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earth_as_one

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At first this decision by the Palestinian authority defies common sense:

Gaza report vote delay angers Hamas

Israel was heavily criticised in Richard Goldstone's report into the 22-day war [File: EPA]

Hamas officials have condemned as "betrayal" the Palestinian Authority's decision to support a delay in voting on the UN-sanctioned report on Israel's war on the Gaza Strip.

The West Bank-based Palestinian Authority (PA) on Friday backed moves to postpone the vote at the UN Human Rights Council until March, saying the postponement would help in achieving greater consensus on adopting the report.

"This ... represents a betrayal of the Palestinian cause and confirms the extent of the collaboration between Abbas [Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas] and his aides with the Zionist enemy, against the Palestinian people," Mushir al-Masri, a Hamas legislator, said on Friday....

Al Jazeera English - Middle East - Gaza report vote delay angers Hamas

So why would the Palestinian Authority not want people guilty of war crimes held accountable for their actions? Doesn't make sense. Do they not care that fellow Palestinians were systematically slaughtered? You would think that this report would help them since some of the accused war criminals include members of Hamas who fired rockets and mortars at Israeli civilians.

But now it makes sense:
The Abu Mazen Tapes, the Goldstone Report and the Israeli Blackmail

10.05.2009

Ma’ariv (p. 5) by Amit Cohen et al. — A Palestinian press agency claims that the surprising decision by Palestinian Authority officials to postpone the discussion of the Goldstone report in the UN Human Rights Council is the result of an Israeli threat. According to a report by Shihab, the Palestinian Authority refused Israel’s demand that it withdraw its support for the harsh report, which Israel considered one-sided. Following this, Israeli figures showed the PA a series of tapes in which Palestinian Authority officials could be heard urging Israel to continue the operation in Gaza. Israel threatened to reveal the material to media outlets as well as to the UN and this, in turn, resulted in the Palestinian retreat. It was further claimed that the Palestinians were shown footage showing a meeting between Abu Mazen, Defense Minister Ehud Barak and then foreign minister Tzippi Livni. In the course of the meeting, according to the report, Abu Mazen attempted to convince Barak to continue the operation. Barak appeared hesitant whereas Abu Mazen was enthusiastic. In addition, a telephone conversation recording between Abed Al-Rahim, secretary general of the Palestinian Authority and director of Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi’s bureau was presented. The Palestinian senior official can be heard saying that now is the time to bring ground forces into the Jabalya and Shati refugee camps. “The fall of these two camps will bring about the fall of the Hamas regime in Gaza, and will cause them to wave a white flag,” says Abed Al-Rahim. According to the report, Dov Weissglas told Abed Al-Rahim that such a move could result in the deaths of thousands of civilians. “They all voted for Hamas,” says Abed Al-Rahim, “they chose their fate, not us.” ....

Norman G. Finkelstein » Oh, People of Palestine,/If not bullets,/Pray tell,/Where are your shoes?

Any "peace" deal signed by war criminals and imposed on their victims against their will has no legitimacy.
 

ironsides

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Which is just what your advocating. You are trying to legitimize terrorist's. Just proof that they exist on. feed on killing.
 

earth_as_one

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Which is just what your advocating. You are trying to legitimize terrorist's. Just proof that they exist on. feed on killing.

I agree with your rationale that terrorists exist on, and feed on, killing. More specifically terrorists exist on and feed on killing innocent civilians.

I don't agree with war, but I accept that during wars, soldiers can deliberately kill other soldiers. But as soon as soldiers target civilians, they become terrorists.

In the last year, Palestinian terrorists have killed about 6 innocent civilians. Israeli terrorists have killed well over a thousand innocent civilians. I don't support either side's terrorism. You support Israeli terrorism. I would like to see all terrorists brought to justice.

That Abbas would defend Israeli terrorists who have slaughtered over a thousand innocent Palestinians tells you whose side he is on, or more precisely, who signs his paycheck and pulls his strings. Abbas is now universally despised by all Palestinians.

Abbas hasn't been a credible leader of the Palestinians since his mandate ran out almost two years ago. Since then he's been a dictator. Hamas still has a few months left in their democratically elected mandate but since the US and Israel backed a Fatah coup, they haven't been able to represent the Palestinian people outside of Gaza.

I support the right of Palestinians to democratically elect their leaders without outside interference. The world should have to deal with whoever they choose whether we like them or not. Part of the reason why so many Palestinians have resorted to violence is because that's the only voice they have. In other words, the west policy of ignoring their democratically elected leaders contributes to violence.

BTW, Hamas has repeatedly offered longterm truces to Israel in exchange for Israel respecting their pre-1967 boundaries and granting Palestinians independence. They've said they'd leave the decision to fight Israel to the next generation and instead focus on issues like poverty and education.
 

ironsides

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"Hamas has repeatedly offered longterm truces to Israel in exchange for Israel respecting their pre-1967 boundaries and granting Palestinians independence. They've said they'd leave the decision to fight Israel to the next generation and instead focus on issues like poverty and education."

This is not a offer, now if they offered to leave boundaries as they are today thus giving Israel a secure border that would be ok. Leaving the decision to fight Israel to the next generation so they could better support themselves and that next generation is not an option either. They want peace, they must drop their weapons now. The world would then secure their rights. Israel stops shooting and still rockets fly into their settlements that also must stop. UN just might be willing to really support them. Israel would only be to glad to send their soldiers home, it costs them money they do not have.

6 civilians killed or 6,000, there is no difference.