America's Innocence Ravaged On 9/11
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Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
And that state of shock was exactly what the perps of the attack wanted you and millions of others to feel and believe it's made the destruction of the moslim world possible, the groundswell of indignation and need for revenge has given the authors of the oil wars
religious like justification to conduct genocidal warfare, for the military aquisition of resources. If this loss of life bothered you but the murder and destruction of the previous century did not, why not?
Sassylassie said:
And that state of shock was exactly what the perps of the attack wanted you and millions of others to feel and believe it's made the destruction of the moslim world possible, the groundswell of indignation and need for revenge has given the authors of the oil wars
religious like justification to conduct genocidal warfare, for the military aquisition of resources. If this loss of life bothered you but the murder and destruction of the previous century did not, why not?
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
It was also a world culturally and ethnically coming together and this was the biggest threat to bin Laden who is very much is a believer in the purity of Islam. New York is a marvelous example of the integration of the world’s population. You can walk for blocks in Manhattan and not hear English spoken. Sinhalese, Tamils, Muslims, Punjabis, Orthodox Jews and of course Canadians and second or third generation Americans all working, living and worshipping in the different boroughs. New York is an incredible experiment about the possibility of humanity.
And the linguistic Babel and admixture of humankind was well represented in the trade towers. About 60 of the Latino survivors started a restaurant in Times Square called Noche. My children like to dance there among the Latinos, Caucasions, Africans … who come to boogie, tango and groove on platters of South American food. It closed recently I think but for a moment it was a place to remember and to move on.
It was also a world culturally and ethnically coming together and this was the biggest threat to bin Laden who is very much is a believer in the purity of Islam. New York is a marvelous example of the integration of the world’s population. You can walk for blocks in Manhattan and not hear English spoken. Sinhalese, Tamils, Muslims, Punjabis, Orthodox Jews and of course Canadians and second or third generation Americans all working, living and worshipping in the different boroughs. New York is an incredible experiment about the possibility of humanity.
And the linguistic Babel and admixture of humankind was well represented in the trade towers. About 60 of the Latino survivors started a restaurant in Times Square called Noche. My children like to dance there among the Latinos, Caucasions, Africans … who come to boogie, tango and groove on platters of South American food. It closed recently I think but for a moment it was a place to remember and to move on.
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
I would never say that the people in the WTC deserved to die, but is "America's Innocence" the right term? The U.S. bombed the life out of over 3 million innocent VietNamese civilians. Plus another million in Laos and Cambodia. Did the American people know nothing about this? They certainly knew about the 68,000 American dead in VietNam. I would say America lost their innocence in VietNam. That innocence was long gone by 9/11.
I would never say that the people in the WTC deserved to die, but is "America's Innocence" the right term? The U.S. bombed the life out of over 3 million innocent VietNamese civilians. Plus another million in Laos and Cambodia. Did the American people know nothing about this? They certainly knew about the 68,000 American dead in VietNam. I would say America lost their innocence in VietNam. That innocence was long gone by 9/11.
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
So #juan what you are saying is that if someone outraged because of the historical and current genocide of aboriginal people carried out by Canada came and blew up your house that you would understand that this was justified.
In fact because aboriginals are disproportionately represented in Canadian prisons they should all be released because each of these crimes was justified because of past actions by the government. This is your argument.
So #juan what you are saying is that if someone outraged because of the historical and current genocide of aboriginal people carried out by Canada came and blew up your house that you would understand that this was justified.
In fact because aboriginals are disproportionately represented in Canadian prisons they should all be released because each of these crimes was justified because of past actions by the government. This is your argument.
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
Of course, bin Laden knew when they attacked the US that thousands of innocent muslims would die too.
The attack was a pre-medetiated act of war designed to draw the US into conflict into the Middle East.
Al-Qaeda knew exactly what it was doing, and what the response would be from the United States due to 9/11. Al-Qaeda knew that the US had no other option but to respond militarily. Al-Qaeda knew that thousands of innocent Muslims would die because of their actions.
darkbeaver said:
Of course, bin Laden knew when they attacked the US that thousands of innocent muslims would die too.
The attack was a pre-medetiated act of war designed to draw the US into conflict into the Middle East.
Al-Qaeda knew exactly what it was doing, and what the response would be from the United States due to 9/11. Al-Qaeda knew that the US had no other option but to respond militarily. Al-Qaeda knew that thousands of innocent Muslims would die because of their actions.
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
My argument had to do with which event was the "loss of American innocence", VietNam, or 9/11. It was not about the aboriginals. If you want to start another thread about the plight of the Aboriginals, go for it.
It is not my argument!sanch said:
My argument had to do with which event was the "loss of American innocence", VietNam, or 9/11. It was not about the aboriginals. If you want to start another thread about the plight of the Aboriginals, go for it.
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
#juan I saw a similar comment by you in another thread. You wrote that 9/11 was a direct consequence of American support for Israel. You do recognize that both Arafat and Hamas have publicly disassociated themselves from this form of terrorism. They do not support it and they do not want it linked to their cause. You on the other hand do seem to support terrorism as you try and link it to these totally unrelated causes. Incidentally the British have recently made this form of cheerleading a criminal offense. What gives you the right to tie people and groups to acts they do not want to be associated with? They do not want to be associated with terrorism of this sort because it detracks from their efforts to find justice.
The aboriginal people are just as relevant as Vietnam in this thread.
#juan I saw a similar comment by you in another thread. You wrote that 9/11 was a direct consequence of American support for Israel. You do recognize that both Arafat and Hamas have publicly disassociated themselves from this form of terrorism. They do not support it and they do not want it linked to their cause. You on the other hand do seem to support terrorism as you try and link it to these totally unrelated causes. Incidentally the British have recently made this form of cheerleading a criminal offense. What gives you the right to tie people and groups to acts they do not want to be associated with? They do not want to be associated with terrorism of this sort because it detracks from their efforts to find justice.
The aboriginal people are just as relevant as Vietnam in this thread.
RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
sanch, there have most certainly been major errors and "disasters", if you will, in terms of our Government of Canada and its many predecessors in relation to the treatment of our First Nations people; however, I wouldn't describe it as anything near genocide. I think that would be, perhaps, a bit much.
sanch, there have most certainly been major errors and "disasters", if you will, in terms of our Government of Canada and its many predecessors in relation to the treatment of our First Nations people; however, I wouldn't describe it as anything near genocide. I think that would be, perhaps, a bit much.
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
Newfoundland wiped an entire tribe out, legend has it that only one survived. The Beothics, or something similar.
Newfoundland wiped an entire tribe out, legend has it that only one survived. The Beothics, or something similar.
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
The United Nations has described Canadian reserves as subhuman and the people on them living in squalid third world conditions. Here are reserves in western Ontario where the life expectancy is a little more than 30 years. There have been quite a number of monographs and reports done on the plight of aboriginals in Canada. I’ll rephrase and call it a slow insidious form of genocide. Whether it is cause by negligence, intent to error the outcome is there for the world to see.
The United Nations has described Canadian reserves as subhuman and the people on them living in squalid third world conditions. Here are reserves in western Ontario where the life expectancy is a little more than 30 years. There have been quite a number of monographs and reports done on the plight of aboriginals in Canada. I’ll rephrase and call it a slow insidious form of genocide. Whether it is cause by negligence, intent to error the outcome is there for the world to see.
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
Sanch, God Bless You,
Your post is a bad joke of irrelevence and invented ideas and slogans. You left out,"you're with us, or you're with the terrorists".
Cheerleading? Another joke.
Please go away and inflict yourself on someone else.
sanch said:
Sanch, God Bless You,
Your post is a bad joke of irrelevence and invented ideas and slogans. You left out,"you're with us, or you're with the terrorists".
Cheerleading? Another joke.
Please go away and inflict yourself on someone else.
RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
I don't think that there is any intent, sanch, for these sorts of things to happen; rather, I think perhaps it is a dangerous degree of indifference on the part of our elected representatives, to take steps to remedy these serious problems. As an example, there is no mention of any endeavours or strategies in this regard in the Speech from the Throne from the current Government of Canada (in advance, no, I am not putting any particular blame on the Conservative Party of Canada — the Liberal Party of Canada, too, failed in this regard).
I don't think that there is any intent, sanch, for these sorts of things to happen; rather, I think perhaps it is a dangerous degree of indifference on the part of our elected representatives, to take steps to remedy these serious problems. As an example, there is no mention of any endeavours or strategies in this regard in the Speech from the Throne from the current Government of Canada (in advance, no, I am not putting any particular blame on the Conservative Party of Canada — the Liberal Party of Canada, too, failed in this regard).
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
Bullshit,the military option was not the only option, the oil is absolutely necessary for the continued global dominance by American economic political and military interests in the world, the attack serves those interests,whoever is responsible has highlighted these activitys and pushed them to the forefront of examination, the attack cannot serve moslim interests it can only serve American or corporate interests anyway you look at it.
Toro said:
Bullshit,the military option was not the only option, the oil is absolutely necessary for the continued global dominance by American economic political and military interests in the world, the attack serves those interests,whoever is responsible has highlighted these activitys and pushed them to the forefront of examination, the attack cannot serve moslim interests it can only serve American or corporate interests anyway you look at it.
Re: RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
Acctually five genocide by assimilation was the exact reason for the mistreatment of Canadas aboriginals, it's main executioners were to a large extent christian missionarys. The success of the program of genocide was nearly complete, it is one of the most hienous crimes ever committed.
FiveParadox said:
Acctually five genocide by assimilation was the exact reason for the mistreatment of Canadas aboriginals, it's main executioners were to a large extent christian missionarys. The success of the program of genocide was nearly complete, it is one of the most hienous crimes ever committed.
RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
I wasn't aware that such things had occured to that extreme, after the passage of the British North America Act, 1867 by the Parliament Assembled of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; however, I am quite aware that relations have not been, of course, perfect, or even good, by any stretch of either term.
I would suggest, however, that the negative treatment of the First Nations people in Canada is perhaps more systematic than anything else — perhaps we should urge our current Government of Canada to consider more appropriate legislative measures to remedy this issue — however, I would wonder whether that end would be the further integration of the First Nations people into Canada, or perhaps further separation and autonomy.
:arrow: Back to the Topic at Hand
sanch and darkbeaver, our discussion on this topic is not appropriate in this thread, in my opinion; if we wish to continue, then I would perhaps urge one of you to create a new thread for that purpose in the Canadian Politics forum.
I wasn't aware that such things had occured to that extreme, after the passage of the British North America Act, 1867 by the Parliament Assembled of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; however, I am quite aware that relations have not been, of course, perfect, or even good, by any stretch of either term.
I would suggest, however, that the negative treatment of the First Nations people in Canada is perhaps more systematic than anything else — perhaps we should urge our current Government of Canada to consider more appropriate legislative measures to remedy this issue — however, I would wonder whether that end would be the further integration of the First Nations people into Canada, or perhaps further separation and autonomy.
:arrow: Back to the Topic at Hand
sanch and darkbeaver, our discussion on this topic is not appropriate in this thread, in my opinion; if we wish to continue, then I would perhaps urge one of you to create a new thread for that purpose in the Canadian Politics forum.
Re: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
Of course it was the only option. What did you expect the Americans to do? Seriously. Who in their right mind did not expect the US to retaliate after 9/11? If America backs down, they look extremely weak. It would have been a gift to bin Laden, and would ahve made him even more of a hero in the Middle East.
It serves bin Laden's interests because it draws America into a war bin Laden thinks he can win. The goal of al-Qaeda is to re-establish the Caliphate. To do that, governments in the Middle East have to fall, in particular the house of Saud. And its easier to do that if the US leaves.
Viewing the world through a prism of oil is extremely parochial.
darkbeaver said:
Of course it was the only option. What did you expect the Americans to do? Seriously. Who in their right mind did not expect the US to retaliate after 9/11? If America backs down, they look extremely weak. It would have been a gift to bin Laden, and would ahve made him even more of a hero in the Middle East.
It serves bin Laden's interests because it draws America into a war bin Laden thinks he can win. The goal of al-Qaeda is to re-establish the Caliphate. To do that, governments in the Middle East have to fall, in particular the house of Saud. And its easier to do that if the US leaves.
Viewing the world through a prism of oil is extremely parochial.
RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE R
This Iraq war for oil is so ridiculous.
The Americans could have accomplished the exact same thing by paying Saddam $10-20 billion.
This Iraq war for oil is so ridiculous.
The Americans could have accomplished the exact same thing by paying Saddam $10-20 billion.
Re: RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE RAVAGED ON 9/11
Hi Said1
I was asking you who Huntington is/was....
Said1 said:
Hi Said1
I was asking you who Huntington is/was....
RE: AMERICA'S INNOCENCE R
sanch, I don't recall the Canadian Government doing anything along the lines of Operation Ajax or the bombing of Beruit within the last couple generations. Maybe you can refresh my memory, not that it would make the use of the word "innocent" any easier to swallow.
sanch, I don't recall the Canadian Government doing anything along the lines of Operation Ajax or the bombing of Beruit within the last couple generations. Maybe you can refresh my memory, not that it would make the use of the word "innocent" any easier to swallow.