America's Inadequate Healthcare

[Daz_Hockey]

Daz

What did I tell you? Flame thread. :lol:

too right....it's a bit of a sore point with a lot of people...everywhere so it seems

 

[I think not]

Daz

What did I tell you? Flame thread. :lol:

too right....it's a bit of a sore point with a lot of people...everywhere so it seems

Tell you what Daz, next time you're in New York, I'll treat you to an MRI, that way you have a frame of reference for a conversation. LOL. Kidding.

 

[Kreskin]

ITN, do they have vending machine CT scans too?

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: America's Inadequate

"That's why there is, for example, a 2 year waiting list for hip surgery in the UK"

Myth Toro, complete MYTH...my mother, who played far too much sport when younger has just had her's done and she waited.....hold on to your hat......3 weeks on the nationl health system.

I also have no lead wait time for my head operations, if it needs doing generally it's done at a maximum of a couple of months, those are just scare stories

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: America's Inadequate

hey hey, I like those MRI's, Although they are slightly cramped inside

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: America's Inadequate Healthcare

ITN, do they have vending machine CT scans too?

LOL, not sure, but that's worth looking into. :lol:

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: America's Inadequate

hey hey, I like those MRI's, Although they are slightly cramped inside

Nonsense, only the best for Daz, open MRI.

 

[SaintLucifer]

Re: RE: America's Inadequate

well..."technically", I hate to admit it Saintlucifer, but that's what it is, every communist country has or used to hve a national healthcare system, and I know the british Labour government that created the "cradle to the grave" system were Heavy socialists.

It is a socialist system, although I agree with my old Yankee tour guide "disbanding an empire while creating a free national health system is a. either madness or b. shows that Britain was lot more wealthy than it initially claimed"..I would suggest the idea was the brainchild of a few inspired socialists, but it was killing the country by the 70's so Yes...I appreciate it, I'm proud of it, BUT....YES I will admit it is a Socialist's dreamchild

What does disbanding the Empire have to do with healthcare?

a lot actually.....think about it, think of the timing, Britain disbanded it's Empire MAINLY because it could not afford to keep it, Britain was "supposedly" broke, and of course the fact it was the right thing to do had little to do with it.

BUT the point is this: BRITAIN is BROKE

SOOOOOOOO

Why oh why would a country that was broke, create a national health care system that would eventually cost a fortune, not a small one, but a GIGANTIC one to maintain?....simply put, it wasn't as poor as it suggested, a fact not lost on people who realise Britain was really the only country to pay back fully the "lend-lease" payments.

But a national health system, if you look at it, look at the time of it's inception, virtually throughout the commonwealth at the same time, was a get together and a last "noble" throw of an idea of an extinct empire actually.

Let me just ask you a question before I tear your argument to shreds. Are you British or are any of your family members British? I need to see how much of an advantage I have with this argument.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: America's Inadequate

I will withold my Nationality until you explin or indeed "rip apart" my arguement go ahead though......

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: America's Inadequate

But I will state that the arguement is not actually mine, but that of an AMERICAN History teacher from Ventura in California actually, although this was discussed for many days thru New York all the way to Minnasota

 

[athabaska]

Re comparisons when using percents. They are meaningless unless attached to an actual total. 10% of a million dollars is $100,000. 50% of a hundred dollars is $50.

Alberta could afford to spend 70% of government spending on health care (yikes. scary thought) but Nova Scotia couldn't. If a millionaire spends 900 thousand on a Ferrari he still has 100 thousand to live on. He's no longer well off but not in dire straits.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: America's Inadequate

Still WAITING oh all knowing Saint Lightbearer

 

[tracy]

Good point Athabaska. Even though our government may spend more on healthcare as a percentage than say the US, it actually spends less per capita. The Canadian system is a lot cheaper.

I do wish individuals would take some responsibility for the healthcare system though. I get annoyed seeing people complain they had to wait hours in the ER when they didn't need to be there to begin with, or when I see people who just don't take care of themselves whine they have to wait too long for a completely avoidable procedure.

 

[SaintLucifer]

Re: RE: America's Inadequate

well..."technically", I hate to admit it Saintlucifer, but that's what it is, every communist country has or used to hve a national healthcare system, and I know the british Labour government that created the "cradle to the grave" system were Heavy socialists.

It is a socialist system, although I agree with my old Yankee tour guide "disbanding an empire while creating a free national health system is a. either madness or b. shows that Britain was lot more wealthy than it initially claimed"..I would suggest the idea was the brainchild of a few inspired socialists, but it was killing the country by the 70's so Yes...I appreciate it, I'm proud of it, BUT....YES I will admit it is a Socialist's dreamchild

What does disbanding the Empire have to do with healthcare?

a lot actually.....think about it, think of the timing, Britain disbanded it's Empire MAINLY because it could not afford to keep it, Britain was "supposedly" broke, and of course the fact it was the right thing to do had little to do with it.

BUT the point is this: BRITAIN is BROKE

SOOOOOOOO

Why oh why would a country that was broke, create a national health care system that would eventually cost a fortune, not a small one, but a GIGANTIC one to maintain?....simply put, it wasn't as poor as it suggested, a fact not lost on people who realise Britain was really the only country to pay back fully the "lend-lease" payments.

But a national health system, if you look at it, look at the time of it's inception, virtually throughout the commonwealth at the same time, was a get together and a last "noble" throw of an idea of an extinct empire actually.

That is partially correct where you state Britain disbanded its Empire because it was broke. Indeed it was broke. During WWII Britain was literally bankrupt. It had absolutely no capital left with which to purchase new weapons to fight the Nazis. The answer? The Americans. Now here is where it gets interesting. The Americans came up with the Lend-Lease program whereupon they would supply the British with weapons. The British would pay back either with cash later or with something else. Do you know what that something else was? British territories. I would suggest you read up on the North Atlantic Treaty where it was agreed that Churchill would diminish Great Britain's Empire as a condition of his receiving military aid from the U.S.A. Why do you think Britain left India? Ghandi? Absolutely not. Britain had already planned to leave India but just not as quickly as they did. The territory Britain gained from its destruction of the Ottoman Empire? They had to return that too. Specifically Roosevelt blackmailed Britain into signing of her Empire at the behest of the Americans.

Do not kid yourself. Britain was broke. This was the real reason why they feared the Nazis. They worried that their economy was going to die. Hitler knew this. Why else would he launch the Battle of Britain? He knew if he kept pounding Britain from the skies the enormous cost of rebuilding would wear the British down.

Have you never heard of Churchill telling Roosevelt 'we need 50 destroyers' to which Roosevelt replied 'which territory from your Empire are you willing to cede to us for payment?' This is why Britain was able to come back although she suffered yet another blow during the Suez Canal Crisis where the resulting oil embargo brought her to her knees.

Britain was able to set up a national health care program even though they were broke. How? Ever heard of loans?

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: America's Inadequate

I agree, and Iam fully aware of the near-vulture-like methodologu of the united states, makes you laugh doesnt it?, the people that actually admired Britain ended up fighting against her, and those who werent particularly fond, or wanted to play a part in her downfall "supposedly" sided with her.

Does make you wonder what Britain ever did SOO wrong to her old colonies doesnt it?, I mean, to turn against them and side with their life-long enemies (france), steal all their ideas of "freedom and liberty", critisize Colonialisation and yet seek global dominance themselves...then "pretend" to be their friends...

ITN, I know what arguements we've had about this, but this was the past, not now, but yes Lucifer, I was aware of this, but I dont think it was created solely out of loans.

 

[SaintLucifer]

Re: RE: America's Inadequate

I agree, and Iam fully aware of the near-vulture-like methodologu of the united states, makes you laugh doesnt it?, the people that actually admired Britain ended up fighting against her, and those who werent particularly fond, or wanted to play a part in her downfall "supposedly" sided with her.

Does make you wonder what Britain ever did SOO wrong to her old colonies doesnt it?, I mean, to turn against them and side with their life-long enemies (france), steal all their ideas of "freedom and liberty", critisize Colonialisation and yet seek global dominance themselves...then "pretend" to be their friends...

ITN, I know what arguements we've had about this, but this was the past, not now, but yes Lucifer, I was aware of this, but I dont think it was created solely out of loans.

'Tis a shame we lost America to the dumb Colonial bastards is it not? To think all of that could have been part of Canada.

It was not created solely out of loans no but I believe the majority of it was. Britain was a financial disaster for too many years. Other than WWII, most of the damage to Britain's economy was done during the Suez Crisis. Why do you think Britain backed off?

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: America's Inadequate

'Tis a shame we lost America to the dumb Colonial bastards is it not? To think all of that could have been part of Canada.

What's a shame is giving head to King George III.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: America's Inadequate

because their master's ordered them to.....same masters that create a multi-latarel agreement to send american nationals who commit crime in the UK back to the US and vica-versa.....and then dont sign it because it "infringes on their human rights" but wish to remove british citizens and send em to jail in the US on flimsy orders...but wont do the same back.....

I dunno, I like America, I enjoy talking to and meeting the people, I kinda enjoy being prounounced "Dear-ran" when it's just "DAAA-ron", or generally their quaint veiws of the world......

but some things are just so different there, idea's, nationalism, History, Geography...But I dont dislike em, how can you?, how can I dislike a people that will, for the most part greet you with at least a simple "hello", more than where I live...

All in all, I just love the teenage girls, people go on about them being larger than most of the world...but man oh man.....oh dear gotta stop the thoughts hehehe.

I'm a lover not a fighter, but, there are parts of america I will never understand.....and thats not automatically a bad thing...And yeah, someone should have shot that King George....should have sat him down and said "u are a nutter, now pish off with these taxation ideas or off with your head dear boy!!!"

 

[GlobalNirvana]

To all my American counterparts in this discussion:

It's easy to throw around simple one-line catch phrases and think you've won the debate, "I would rather get sick in the US than anywhere else." This might be true for those of who can AFFORD to get sick (pay for prescription drugs or the cost of surgeries or advanced treatment), depending on the situation, and our quality of care has its flaws as well. We've already heard examples from Britain and Canada that casts away Soviet-era myth "lines in a socialized healthcare system must be soooo long." But there's an example within our own country that shows that government-run healthcare is preferable to private-run healthcare in all respects: The Veterans' Affairs healthcare administration. Not only does it have higher patient satisfaction than the private healthcare system, but it scores higher in objective measures of quality too. The system is more efficient and hasn't been a victim to the rising costs and premiums of private healthcare since it has one centralized system of record-keeping and billing; costs are dramatically cut compared to the multi-layered private system and medical errors are reduced.
A recent commission appointed by Congress showed that most Americans want a universal system of healthcare in this country. It's time to respect the will of the people, even though it may conflict with the interests of the corporate world. This is after all a democracy, not a facist nation (the merger of government and corporate interests).

-Global Nirvana

 

[Toro]

The Veterans' Affairs healthcare administration. Not only does it have higher patient satisfaction than the private healthcare system, but it scores higher in objective measures of quality too. The system is more efficient and hasn't been a victim to the rising costs and premiums of private healthcare since it has one centralized system of record-keeping and billing; costs are dramatically cut compared to the multi-layered private system and medical errors are reduced.

I highly doubt this is the case. It may not be rising by as much, but its rising. Either that, or benefits are being cut.

Healthcare costs in Canada have been rising 7-8% per year for the past 15-20 years and there are still waiting lines.

A recent commission appointed by Congress showed that most Americans want a universal system of healthcare in this country.

That's interesting. You want to link it? If it is Congressional report, it will be available at the government web site. Otherwise, I'd be skeptical.

It's time to respect the will of the people, even though it may conflict with the interests of the corporate world. This is after all a democracy, not a facist nation (the merger of government and corporate interests).

-Global Nirvana

Fascist?

There goes your credibility.