America's Inadequate Healthcare

GlobalNirvana

New Member
Jul 9, 2006
2
0
1
USA
Hey all-

I'm an American who realizes that our healthcare's lack of affordability for many citizens is immoral and misguided. I was wondering what Canadians think/say about our system of healthcare, is it something that is criticized often in the press or through other veins? Also, if anyone could give me some background as to how Canada got to its current system of healthcare that'd be great.

Thanks,
Global Nirvana
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Canada's health care system

Has been a long, rocky, road, starting from 1947, when Tommy Douglas introduced the first provincial hospital insurance program in Canada.

In 1957, Paul Martin Sr. introduced a national health care program that big business, insurance companies, and doctors fought tooth and nail against.

In 1960 the Canadian Medical Association launched a campaign opposing all publically funded health care. The campaign fizzled when they saw that the people weren't behind them.

In 1962 Saskatchewan's NDP government introduces the first public health care program. Doctors walk out but the strike collapses after 3 weeks.

In 1965 a Royal Commission headed by Emmett Hall calls for a universal and comprehensive national health insurance program.

In 1978 Doctors begin "extra-billing" to raise their incomes.

In 1984 the Canada Health Act is passed unanimously by parliament. Extra-billing is banned.

These are just some highlights. It has been a struggle. Here is a link to further information.

link
 

thecdn

Electoral Member
Apr 12, 2006
310
0
16
North Lauderdale, FL
Canada's system may have issues and be far from perfect, but as a Canadian who has lived in the US for the past 7 years, I vastly prefer it to the US one.

Here, it's all about the money. Do you have insurance? Which one? What's covered? What are the co-pays? (A term I hadn't heard till I moved here)

I also hadn't heard of people declaring bankruptcy due to medical expenses until I moved here. Nor seen fancy ads on tv for drugs - wonder how the companies pay for those?

When I moved to Louisville,KY I had to get a 'finder company' to locate a doctor who was took my new companies insurance plan and who was taking new patients. Isn't this 'free enterprise' mantra (along with socialism is bad) supposed to be about freedom and choice? Choice to take the insurance your company offers - if you are lucky and they have it - or pay even more if you don't. Choice to go to the doctors in your insurance plans system, or pay more to go to another one. Choice to change doctors when your company changes insurers - to save money.

Of course, if you really want to hear a Canadian lay the hate on the US system, I'll get my wife on here :) She's had to deal with it more taking the kids to doctor/dentist appointments and such. (Just don't mention dealing with the orthodontists office and the insurance company. She'll be mad for the whole day and we'll all suffer ;) )
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
It is interesting that

Canadians pay less per capita for medicare than you do in the U.S.. I think our single payer medical health system is workable if we nurture it and keep the abuse to a minimum. And keep our politicians from killing it.

thecdn

I read your comment about medical bankruptcies. It seems that fully half of all bankruptcies in the U.S. are due to medical costs.
 

Toro

Senate Member
RE: America's Inadequate

I'll disagree with thecdn.

I've been in America for nearly a decade, and I prefer the US system, despite its flaws.

I'd rather get sick in the United States than in Canada. If I need any treatment, I can get it tomorrow. No lines. No waiting. And the most advanced medical technology is in the United States.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Toro

What do you pay a month for health insurance?

We do seem to have waits for some operations. Hip replacements are a problem. I have had heart surgery. Once it was decided that it was neccesary, I was in the next week. Two of my neighbors had quadruple by-pass operations and they didn't have long waits. I also have some experience with the American system and having an insurance company tell me what operation I can have is nonsense.
 

thecdn

Electoral Member
Apr 12, 2006
310
0
16
North Lauderdale, FL
Re: RE: America's Inadequate

Toro said:
I'd rather get sick in the United States than in Canada. If I need any treatment, I can get it tomorrow. No lines. No waiting. And the most advanced medical technology is in the United States.

How about the more than 40 million people without health insurance?
 

thecdn

Electoral Member
Apr 12, 2006
310
0
16
North Lauderdale, FL
Re: RE: America's Inadequate

Toro said:
Oh, and maybe its the crowd I run with, but the largely middle-class members of our Canadian club here in Tallahassee share my sentiments.

Must be the crowd. We've hated it since we've moved here and continue to do so.

Note. We hate it for how it treats people overall, the 10's of millions without insurance who have to pay higher charges at hospitals than those with insurance. The underinsured who avoid checkups and preventative care because of the cost and end up being a more costly and dangerous emergency.

Yes, we hate it for ourselves as well - being told which doctor we can and can't see, having to get two referrals (with co-pays) to get a damn planters wart removed. - But there's more to it than that.
 

thecdn

Electoral Member
Apr 12, 2006
310
0
16
North Lauderdale, FL
#juan said:
What do you pay a month for health insurance?

My answer. $345/mo health, $36.50/mo dental - family of four. And I'm a state employee working for a community college so I have it better than many.

I've had friends buying insurance as individuals - small businessmen, paying three times that or more.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Our cost for health insurance are:

$78.00/month for Medical insurance, extended medical, and dental insurance. The medical plan pays for just about everything except ambulances. The extended medical covers us in all provinces. The dental plan pays 80 percent of just about anything though orthodontic work is not all covered. We've used my wife's health care insurance in retirement She was a nurse for thirty odd years and her medical insurance through her union, was cheaper than mine.
 

Toro

Senate Member
Re: RE: America's Inadequate

thecdn said:
How about the more than 40 million people without health insurance?

I'm not one of those. With a population of 300 million, that means 87% of the population have access to the best medical system in the world.

But If I were poor, I'd rather be in Canada.

thecdn said:
Must be the crowd. We've hated it since we've moved here and continue to do so.

That's you. What about the other Canadians you know? Do they share the same opinion?

thecdn said:
Note. We hate it for how it treats people overall, the 10's of millions without insurance who have to pay higher charges at hospitals than those with insurance. The underinsured who avoid checkups and preventative care because of the cost and end up being a more costly and dangerous emergency.

Yes, we hate it for ourselves as well - being told which doctor we can and can't see, having to get two referrals (with co-pays) to get a damn planters wart removed. - But there's more to it than that.

I can give all sorts of examples of how the medical system is failing in Canada as well. Here are two.

When my grandfather moved to Comox from out of province, he had to wait four months before he was able to even see a cancer specialist for his colon cancer, and that was after my father was able to pull some strings for him to jump the queue. Now, ( I have been told) BC has a three-month waiting requirement before you are eligible to see a specialist, but if I were to move to California, I wouldn't have that requirement with my insurance. If my father hadn't known the oncologist, my grandfather would have had to have waited at least another two months.

In Calgary, a friend's child developed a large growth on his head when the child was four years old. It took him 10 months before he was able to see a specialist and get a diagnosis. If that had been my child, I would have been beating down doors with baseball bats to get it done quicker.


Juan

A friend of mine in Saskatchewan died of a rare cancer a few years ago. When they finally discovered what he had, he was in the cancer ward the very next day. So, for many if not most life-threatening procedures, you will get pretty good care in Canada.

I pay nothing for my insurance. My employer covers it. If I had to pay full coverage for my family, it would be about $1200 per month. However, I calculated my total tax bill this year and I paid about 25% of my income in taxes - that's all taxes, including income, sales, property, gas, capital gains, dividends, medicare/medicaid contributions, social security contributions, etc. So, even if I had to pay my own insurance, I still would have been ahead compared to if I were in Canada.

And I'm glad your by-pass went well.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
First Toro

B.C. does not have any three month waiting period to see a specialist. One of the neighbors I told you about had a massive heart attack and he had a quintuple by-pass and was out walking four days after the heart attack. I have to admit that the U.S. certainly has the medical expertice available but you know, everyone who has cancer doesn't need the Mayo Clinic. I have been perfectly happy with our medical system and I am neither rich nor poor. If you are happy, we have no argument.
 

athabaska

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2005
313
0
16
We lived a year in Elko, Nevada and 2 and a half near Globe, Arizona. The health care was A-1. Way better than anything we've experienced in 3 provinces in Canada. We felt more valued and less part of an anonymous system. Yes, we had company coverage and didn't have the worries of those not insurered.

I've known some Americans who feel enslaved to their employees because of the health coverage. That seems to restrict options in life and is always hanging like a big cloud over their heads.

We personally would pay way less for private insurance in the U.S. than we pay in taxes towards health care in Alberta...and taxes here are low compared to most provinces. It is comforting to know, however, that the personal cost of health care is a non-issue for our parents, kids and other family members.

I
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: America's Inadequate

Ah blimey,

Sorry I've gotta chip into this one:

1. Were the dates of 1947 in Canada and the UK's health system designed by Clement Attlee purley co-incidental?...I dont think they were.

2. Cuba actually has a more advanced Health system than in the US

3. I've just had a Neurological (Brain) Operation in the UK (under our National Health System) and they rushed me in within a week of test results, I've had about 43 Neurological Operations and, to me, even if everyone HAS to pay their national insurance taxes, for me it's worth it.

Can you simply imagine how much 43 Neurosurgical operations, with countless CT, MRI, TMD and not to mention doctor's check-up's and all the medicine would have costed for my family?....certainly more than any of my family have paid in taxes.

That's why in my opinion a national health system such as Canada's, Britain's or Cuba's is truely amzing, I honestly dont think I'd get health insurance in the states, and if I did I could never afford it, that why I'm against a private healthcare system like the US's...just my five pence worth

(I've Been to Elko in nevada!!!....Hav you ever been in the RED LION BAR/CASINO???)
 

athabaska

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2005
313
0
16
"Can you simply imagine how much 43 Neurosurgical operations, with countless CT, MRI, TMD and not to mention doctor's check-up's and all the medicine would have costed for my family?....certainly more than any of my family have paid in taxes."

That's why it's 'insurance'. Collective risk and premiums accordingly. You probably also couldn't afford to rebuild your house if it burned down. That's why you buy insurance.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
RE: America's Inadequate

ahha, but think of the premiums you'd pay, if your house burned down...say 40-odd times, your insurance would be astrological...same with health insurance....this is my point, if I hd to pay health insurance....well 1. I probably would be uninsurable and 2. my premiums would be crazy.

I really have been to Elko...I won $200 in the Red Lion