American Ignorance About Canada

[Curiosity]

TheCdn

Well I guess the snowbirds aren't doing their information brokering then if the people in Florida know little about Canada.

Why would any southern state be interested in Canada when there are truly formidable issues regarding the countries to the south of the U.S.

We are all studying Spanish wondering when it will be required as French is in Canada. Most of the jobs in California are mandatory bi-lingual now.

And you want us to study Canada - who could care less if one American ever visited that beautiful land? Whatever for?

 

[jimmoyer]

Has anyone noticed how many Americans are on
this board ???

Anybody notice the American curiosity, the interest ??

 

[Kreskin]

They think Fort McMurray is the capital. (just kidding)

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: American Ignorance About Canada

They think Fort McMurray is the capital. (just kidding)

You mean it's not? 8O

*reminds self to look up capital of Canada, when I find Canada on the map*

 

[fuzzylogix]

You know, for all the joking, I probably wouldnt pass the immigration test on Canada myself!!!

 

[sanch]

So basically you are agreeing with most everything I say WC. The US and Canada are growing apart. But I was neither analytical nor defensive in my posts. I was just describing what I see. I would like more Canadian content in the curriculum at my children’s school but the reason for its absence might be regional.

My theory on the anti-Americanism in Canada is that it is a product of indoctrination. Canadians do not seem to be able to think or comment without using the US as a signifier or primary reference. The origins of this oppositional predisposition go back to the seventies when large numbers of US profs were hired in Canadian universities and by their large presence came to dominate the system. Prior to this period as John Porter has reported the Canadian universities were run by the British. Canadians have never run their own educational system and content and theoretical direction have always been imposed from the outside. I think there is a lot of Canadian ingenuity and originality in some areas but knowledge about the larger world and the perspective in viewing this world has been conditioned by the educational enterprise.

In the ;ate seventies if you go back to the sociology journals you will see that there was a concerted effort to Canadianize the university. For various reason it never happened. I don’t think there is any kind of conspiracy in the university to promote anti-Americanism and a very dated form of Marxism. And the outside dominance is probably more prevalent in the arts then in business areas and maybe to a lesser extent in the sciences.

So to me the anti-Americanism in Canada is an educational product and not simply a reaction to world events. One can disagree with US policy on Iraq without the overt America bashing that infuses a lot of the posts on this board. Listen to the Neil Young link I posted. Young is a “patriot” but he is opposed to the war. He is also a Canadian and a proud one at that. The greatness of America, Young states, is that he as a resident can protest openly with a policy and war he disagrees with. Most Canadians cannot accept a balanced critique like Young offers. There is nothing good about America to them. My argument is that it is learned behavior.

On American indifference to Canada. If you visited relatives who simply badmouthed you all the time would you be that interested in their lives? No of course not.

On the few Americans on this board. They are either masochists or after the oil. There must be some kind of conspiracy we can link them to.

 

[Curiosity]

Re: RE: American Ignorance About Canada

You know, for all the joking, I probably wouldnt pass the immigration test on Canada myself!!!

Fuzzylogix - Bingo!! Can you imagine the ESL people who have to go through this too?


With your intellect, you would fly through it as long as you had time to review the eccentric questions they posit.

After 18 years in the U.S.A. I took my citizenship examination which is comprised of 50 questions - out of a possible 96 (?) and I forget how many you can fail - actually my mind has gone blank since I took it a year ago - like a bad memory! I got the ones he asked right because he would have told me I think.

I really loved studying for it tho and took my time because I got hung up on the American Constitution and couldn't stop reading it.

As with all tests - unless we review and process, they aren't things we pack our brains with every day. Like driving tests - we drive without problems, doing the things we learned automatically, yet we have to study the laws every time we renew because there is always something added we weren't aware of. These tests are the same.

I sweated over the original Thirteen Colony States and he didn't ask me to name them so I wouldn't leave the interview until he let me recite them just for the hoohaw of it. {Now if I could only forget them - I keep reciting them in some kind of OCD lockout)!

I was surprised few Americans knew the answers required for citizenship - because they studied most of the questions when they were children.

If we retained all we have learned at the ready we'd have to pack our heads around in carts!

 

[Curiosity]

Sanch

The 60s and 70s were a time of tumoil and anti-government movements and yes they were inspired by Marxism and all the other isms of the current time.

They were also inspired by drugs. The teaching systems were
similar in the U.S. (from what I hear) as they were in Canada.
The university professors have changed very little even now.
They seem to enjoy being the typical lotus eater group.

I arrived to see the complete 180 during the GOP backlash and didn't much like what I witnessed then but knew very little about the U.S. and politics didn't interest me at all. Those in power seemed cranky and overtly religious.

I went through the U.S. university system and learned to play the game with the professors and founds those with whom I could actually speak on my own level of learning and confusion.

Socialism wasn't too different for me having lived in Canada - but I didn't see very much in those days. Working and going to university took all my interest.

The shock I received when I finally sorted my personal life out and had some time to visit forums - was visiting Canadian forums. To read what now is exactly the same as it was eight years ago doesn't surprise me at all. But it seems so regimented and "taught" rather than seeking to find the best in all (as Canadians are quite willing to do with Europe for instance), they refuse to acknowledge any "good" in the large mass of people to the south. I find that singularly limited and not very bright.

As if being locked in anger seems safe and secure.

As to your last questions about Americans on the board here - I was trying to decide whether to become a citizen down here and as my families in Canada are not political at all, I could learn nothing there - so I decided to visit forums to find out what it was like up there these days.

Masochist would be a good word I guess. I have learned a great deal from people who dislike me for where I live. About myself.
It's a test I would not recommend to everyone.

 

[jimmoyer]

Good post Wednesday.

There is much more variety to America than even
our next door neighbors understand.

 

[Curiosity]

Thanks Jim

California's variety continues to astound me - even on a weekend one can visit two totally different climates and have time to enjoy them both.

Regardless of the politics and the global shunning, I cannot imagine living anywhere else this time of my life. The country has been very good to me.

 

[I think not]

WC

I hear you loud and clear, it is all about personal experiences. If we all relied on a school education to learn "everything", then we wouldn't know much at all. High school level graduates can be smart, ignorant and naive. The drive to learn is innate.

This thread is interesting to me because a few actually believe you can attach ignorance to a passport. Stereotypes are interesting, are they not? They can make people feel better about themselves.

 

[#juan]

I think anti-Americanism, in Canada, and around the world, if that is what it is, got a big push when G.W. Bush was elected. Bush's now famous, "yer with us or yer with the terrorists" did more to dampen the good will in the world for the U.S. than even the VietNam war did. After 9/11 there was a whole reservoir of sympathy for the U.S. that G.W. pissed all over.

 

[Curiosity]

Juan

I disagree - you were one of the first to advise me you didn't appreciate the U.S. foreign policy concerning the Israel/Palestinian talks conducted by Clinton (ad nauseum). I believe you used to phrase it: "Your foreign policy".... as if I had instituted it myself. Apparently feelings about the people of Israel have been simmering for years and it was a polite way of stating it: U.S. Foreign Policy - that the U.S. favored Israel over the Palestinians.

I was told many nations felt the same way about the U.S. government and Canadians were not alone in their criticism.

That was before Bush took office. About 1 1/2 - 2 years before.

The anti-Americanism was out there then - just more vague - now it has focus because America is again at war, they kill babies, their government is corrupt and we are reminded daily how many military have been killed in Iraq, not to mention the dead Iraqi civilians and those killed by U.S. friendly fire - Canadians - our neighbors and friends.

I remember many things about 9/11. I remember very well one forum member having a royal blow up because the incoming aircraft diverted from the U.S. into Canadian airspace was a cause for alarm and anger. He said the U.S. had violated Canadian airspace - which was in ignorance because all those reassigned flight plans had been cleared through the reciprocal defense programs always in operation - not just on 9/11. They were cleared by Canadians. Canadians opened their homes to the diverted passengers. It seemed a beautiful day to me in the midst of the agony of the deaths, perhaps Canada did care about the U.S. after all.

Then the remarks started again about faking it as that terrible day came to nightfall. That the Americans had designed these events so a war could be started in the middle east - stories I couldn't even begin to dream up.

And then Bush snubbed Cretien in his subsequent speech to the nation and his thanks to foreign nations.. One could hear the devil dance in glee!

It was as if someone had hit me over the head that day and I wondered who had taken over Canada and Canadians.

I have since learned even more what people are saying and thinking : what I read on 9/11, since that day of horror, and the subsequent invasion of Iraq, truth and non-truth it matters not and it no longer surprises me.

It is something which has been festering for many years - Canadians have now found a safety in numbers to voice their anger.

It isn't about "cautioning" the U.S. about its foreign policy either - it is far deeper than that. It isn't about Bush - he is merely a convenient scapegoat.

I hope Canadians find their direction again and peace in their hearts one day and regain happiness in so doing.

 

[I think not]

The sympathy was but a blip, anti-Americanism is chronic.

 

[#juan]

I could care less W.C. what you dissagree with.

G.W. and his so-called foreign policy has made the U.S. one of the most hated countries on the globe. Anti-Americanism is not something somebody catches from a cold draft. It is a response to a dreadful foreign policy that has killed millions in small countries over and over. VietNam, Laos, Cambodia, Korea, and now Iraq. For what??? Oh yeah, Operation Iraq freedom, I forgot, it must have been the "shock and awe"

 

[Curiosity]

Juan - that you could care less does not surprise me..

Thank you for making my point - some cannot see beyond their anger for whatever reason it validates their comfort zone.

The United States has been involved in many wars and has been responsible for many deaths - however you single them out rather than look at the origins of those conflicts.

For instance the nations of Laos, Cambodia and VietNam were the result of yet more French colonial "cut and run when things get tough" and the U.S. was sent in to assist the people in chaos, and as usual do the clean up and put things back in order. They were not entirely successful and are still paying the heavy price for VietNam when the people themselves were against the duty assigned their military.

Korea had been occupied by Japan and then the cold war necessitated forces sent by the U.N. to keep the Russian millitary from future occupation of the people. I should not have to remind you the U.S. forces are still there and the U.N. has made no move in over 50 years to bring them home or relieve them of their duty. They have served the U.N. well wouldn't you say?

The United Nations has been using the U.S. military as its own personal military force in the world, and if you review the countries you named in your angry rebuttal, you will see the U.S. became involved at their direction with the exception of Iraq.

Iraq? Well we know the U.N. did as much postponing as possible of the U.S. intervention in Iraq - and since the Oil for Food issue has been exposed we now know why. Or are we going to use the lame charge against them: "It's all about the oil"!!!

Many Americans feel we should let the world swing on its own now and we have spent much time and personal wealth in keeping our military up to standards necessitated for world peace and intervention. That contributes to the hateful image being perpetuated by people like you.

Americans are on the brink of questioning now - why they are the sitting ducks out there when other nations sit at home in comfort making incredible statements about their country. Statements you have been making for years.

I have not forgotten you were the first Canadian to open that window of anger towards me from my own country. "Go away" became your directive to me so often.

I have begun to understand now, and it has taken me through a long journey of reading what Canadians write and why they feel as they do. I have learned much along the way and will always be grateful for the lessons taught. I believe some lessons are never learned except in adversity.

Thank you Juan.

 

[Curiosity]

WC

I hear you loud and clear, it is all about personal experiences. If we all relied on a school education to learn "everything", then we wouldn't know much at all. High school level graduates can be smart, ignorant and naive. The drive to learn is innate.

This thread is interesting to me because a few actually believe you can attach ignorance to a passport. Stereotypes are interesting, are they not? They can make people feel better about themselves.

ITN

Why is it you can say so much in so few words and I take half a thread???

I have turned my original confusion into a learning experience ITN and have benefited from the subject of the seeds of animosity between groups of people. Canadians are singularly fair-minded and good - I believe they have just simply had enough of the path the U.S. has taken and as a nation they have diverged from the same goals. It does not make Canadians wrong, but nor does it make Americans wrong.

Yet many insist on the "right or wrong" of things. There is really no answer except in our hearts. History is made up of corners turned.

 

[#juan]

The United States has been involved in many wars and has been responsible for many deaths - however you single them out rather than look at the origins of those conflicts.

Oh, I see. The French were in VietNam first, so that gives the U.S. a Carte blanche to bomb and kill 2 or 3 million civilians in that country plus another million or so in Cambodia and Laos. These were war crimes, or crimes against humanity.There was nothing noble or honourable about the American effort in Southeast Asia, unless it was the four students at Kent who were shot protesting that shameful war. The war was shameful because it killed sixty odd thousand fine young men who were noble and honourable, and emotionally destroyed another few hundred thousand.

 

[I think not]

No, you don't see #juan, I doubt you ever will. You're hooked on the obverse side of reality, which by the way I agree with morally, but you never allow yourself to see the reverse.

 

[#juan]

ITN

I very much respect you and no doubt we could be good neighbors, but if you don't see that the American war in VietNam was an incredible cock-up from day one, you have serious case of moral astigmatism. That dirty war sent you back tens of thousands of emotional basket cases as well as all the names on the big black wall. All those men died. For what??