Al Gore wins Nobel Peace Prize

[Tonington]

This thread is the perfect epitome of how information is transmitted these days.

Some people will agree with the message, and in so pass off Gore's blunders because his cause is noble. Well that may be true, it would depend who you ask.

I'll go so far as to say that Gore's film helped drum up support for a movement, but in so doing, he has contributed to the "climate" of cloudy education.

Anything in this day and age, and particularly on this subject is not long for the critical eyes, and rightly so.

While I support the movement that Gore champions in the film, I am saddened at the true result of his film. Now, a persons home is reason to discredit the movement that person belongs to. Politics rules information, and I think that is very sad.

I think the IPCC would have been good enough for the Nobel committee to award. By passing that recognition onto Gore, they are endorsing a style of information dissemination that I find reprehensible.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

We live in the real world, not some fantasy where everything is perfect. Gore wouldn't be in the position to take the lead he has on the climate issue if he didn't come from a family of wealth and priviledge.

He beats the living hell out of Bush who comes from even greater wealth and priviledge than Gore. Gore is dedicating his life to dealing with the most important issue of our time and for many decades to come.

What do the people who are so critical of him represent? Greed and contempt for life.

 

[Curiosity]

Tonington - what do the people who are your instructors, advisors, in the field of environmental studies have to say about Gore's influence - is it positive or negative?

We rarely hear the bones of the topic - only the political manipulation and machinations and self-elevating blather....

What's the real story or is there a definitive one which knowledgeable people can say for certain is
in our future and what are the remedies we must address?

Oops...he's gone...dang it

 

[CDNBear]

This thread is the perfect epitome of how information is transmitted these days.

Some people will agree with the message, and in so pass off Gore's blunders because his cause is noble. Well that may be true, it would depend who you ask.

I'll go so far as to say that Gore's film helped drum up support for a movement, but in so doing, he has contributed to the "climate" of cloudy education.

Anything in this day and age, and particularly on this subject is not long for the critical eyes, and rightly so.

While I support the movement that Gore champions in the film, I am saddened at the true result of his film. Now, a persons home is reason to discredit the movement that person belongs to. Politics rules information, and I think that is very sad.

I think the IPCC would have been good enough for the Nobel committee to award. By passing that recognition onto Gore, they are endorsing a style of information dissemination that I find reprehensible.

Ahhh, the refreshing voice of reason.

Good on ya Ton.

 

[Tonington]

Curio, well most professors I don't generally discuss Gore with, as he's not really involved in the science of this topic. My ecology professor is a big fan of his, and I have had discussions with him about this. He's also a fan of Suzuki. I follow up on those fellas out of an interest in the politics of environmentalism, but not for clarification on the science. My ecology professor is willing to overlook Gore's blunders. He understands the science of ecology very well and he seems to appreciate that Gore has drummed up support for the issue, regardless of the errors he presents. To me, I can't really square those two things very well.

The real story is, that there are multiple disciplines with a convergence in conclusions. But to convey that message now, is exceedingly difficult.

 

[Avro]

The man was a butcher, are you arguing that?

PINOCHET IS A HERO

NEW YORK - Chile’s former strongman, Gen. Augusto Pinochet, is the Great Satan for leftists everywhere.
This week, Pinochet, now a Chilean senator, was arrested in London, where he had gone for back surgery. Britain held the 82-year old retired general after a Spanish judge sought to have Pinochet extradited to Spain to face charges of ‘genocide, torture, and other crimes’ rising from the disappearance of Spanish marxists during Chile’s ‘dirty war’ of the 1970’s.
Ironically, Cuba’s communist caudillo, Fidel Castro, whose firing squads have executed thousands, and whose prisons are notorious for vicious torture of political prisoners, was being feted in Spain at the very same time the warrant was issued for Pinochet.
Communists and their little step-sisters, socialists, are making a great hue and cry that Chilean security forces killed 2,000- 3,000 marxists during the 70’s dirty war. This sudden and touching concern for human rights comes from a party that murdered 80 MILLION people this century and has never even repented its monstrous crimes.
Had Allende’s communist cemented their hold on Chile, thousands of ‘bourgeois’ and ‘enemies of the people’ would have been executed - as they were in Cuba.
Britain is holding Senator Pinochet in violation of the diplomatic passport he carries. Tony Blair’s new socialist government is obviously more concerned with ideological revenge than diplomatic convention. And talk about ‘perfidious Albion.’ During the Falklands War, Gen Pinochet aided Britain, and saved many British lives, even allowing Britain’s SAS commandos to operate against Argentina from Chile. So much for British gratitude.
Beside the shocking illegality of his detention by Britain, the charges levelled against Pinochet by the Spanish judge and the left-leaning media are untrue - or distorted.
In 1973, army commander Pinochet overthrew Marxist Salvador Allende, who was turning Chile onto a Stalinist state. Pinochet, backed by the US and Britain, led the subsequent war against marxist terrorists. All urban wars are dirty and bloody. Look at Northern Ireland, Israel’s war against Palestinians, or Algeria.
Marxist urban rebels tried to overthrow Chile’s government, using bombings, assassinations, kidnapping and guerrilla assaults. Chile, and neighboring Argentina, suffered a reign of terror and faced near anarchy as communist guerillas attempted, in their own words, to ‘destroy the capitalist state. ‘
Chilean and Argentine security forces were ordered to fight an all-out war against the communist rebels. Terror against terror. In the process, some innocent people were arrested, tortured or disappeared. But most victims were not innocents. They were mainly marxist guerillas and terrorists,or part of the marxist support network, that included students, and marxist clergy and nuns.
The soldiers finally won these bloody wars, restoring peace to Chile and Argentina. Today, thanks to - and because of - victory in these conflicts, Chile and Argentina are proud, prosperous democracies. The soldiers who did the necessary dirty work to make this possible are often accused of crimes, and shunned by society they saved.
Pinochet’s sweeping free market reforms transformed Chile from a socialist disaster into Latin America’s fastest growing economy. Once Chile was politically stable and economically booming, Pinochet returned Chile to full democracy. He resigned from the military and became a senator.
The charges against Pinochet are preposterous. The Spanish judge has no grounds to demand arrest. Genocide deals with eradication of whole peoples, not a few thousand marxist revolutionaries in an urban terror war. Russia just murdered 100,000 Chechens. Serbs killed 300,000 civilians in Bosnia and Kosova. Where are the warrants for ex-communist Yeltsin and current communists Milosevic? Or Castro?
Final irony. If Pinochet had failed and Allende survived, Chile would not be a democracy today, but a Stalinist police state like Cuba, with no human rights, no democracy, and thousands of political prisoners.
Pinochet’s triumphant success in Chile reminds leftists of communism’s great crimes and abject failures. That’s why they hate him so much.
Pinochet saved Chile and restored democracy. He deserves salutes, not arrest.

 

[CDNBear]

PINOCHET IS A HERO

NEW YORK - Chile’s former strongman, Gen. Augusto Pinochet, is the Great Satan for leftists everywhere.
This week, Pinochet, now a Chilean senator, was arrested in London, where he had gone for back surgery. Britain held the 82-year old retired general after a Spanish judge sought to have Pinochet extradited to Spain to face charges of ‘genocide, torture, and other crimes’ rising from the disappearance of Spanish marxists during Chile’s ‘dirty war’ of the 1970’s.
Ironically, Cuba’s communist caudillo, Fidel Castro, whose firing squads have executed thousands, and whose prisons are notorious for vicious torture of political prisoners, was being feted in Spain at the very same time the warrant was issued for Pinochet.
Communists and their little step-sisters, socialists, are making a great hue and cry that Chilean security forces killed 2,000- 3,000 marxists during the 70’s dirty war. This sudden and touching concern for human rights comes from a party that murdered 80 MILLION people this century and has never even repented its monstrous crimes.
Had Allende’s communist cemented their hold on Chile, thousands of ‘bourgeois’ and ‘enemies of the people’ would have been executed - as they were in Cuba.
Britain is holding Senator Pinochet in violation of the diplomatic passport he carries. Tony Blair’s new socialist government is obviously more concerned with ideological revenge than diplomatic convention. And talk about ‘perfidious Albion.’ During the Falklands War, Gen Pinochet aided Britain, and saved many British lives, even allowing Britain’s SAS commandos to operate against Argentina from Chile. So much for British gratitude.
Beside the shocking illegality of his detention by Britain, the charges levelled against Pinochet by the Spanish judge and the left-leaning media are untrue - or distorted.
In 1973, army commander Pinochet overthrew Marxist Salvador Allende, who was turning Chile onto a Stalinist state. Pinochet, backed by the US and Britain, led the subsequent war against marxist terrorists. All urban wars are dirty and bloody. Look at Northern Ireland, Israel’s war against Palestinians, or Algeria.
Marxist urban rebels tried to overthrow Chile’s government, using bombings, assassinations, kidnapping and guerrilla assaults. Chile, and neighboring Argentina, suffered a reign of terror and faced near anarchy as communist guerillas attempted, in their own words, to ‘destroy the capitalist state. ‘
Chilean and Argentine security forces were ordered to fight an all-out war against the communist rebels. Terror against terror. In the process, some innocent people were arrested, tortured or disappeared. But most victims were not innocents. They were mainly marxist guerillas and terrorists,or part of the marxist support network, that included students, and marxist clergy and nuns.
The soldiers finally won these bloody wars, restoring peace to Chile and Argentina. Today, thanks to - and because of - victory in these conflicts, Chile and Argentina are proud, prosperous democracies. The soldiers who did the necessary dirty work to make this possible are often accused of crimes, and shunned by society they saved.
Pinochet’s sweeping free market reforms transformed Chile from a socialist disaster into Latin America’s fastest growing economy. Once Chile was politically stable and economically booming, Pinochet returned Chile to full democracy. He resigned from the military and became a senator.
The charges against Pinochet are preposterous. The Spanish judge has no grounds to demand arrest. Genocide deals with eradication of whole peoples, not a few thousand marxist revolutionaries in an urban terror war. Russia just murdered 100,000 Chechens. Serbs killed 300,000 civilians in Bosnia and Kosova. Where are the warrants for ex-communist Yeltsin and current communists Milosevic? Or Castro?
Final irony. If Pinochet had failed and Allende survived, Chile would not be a democracy today, but a Stalinist police state like Cuba, with no human rights, no democracy, and thousands of political prisoners.
Pinochet’s triumphant success in Chile reminds leftists of communism’s great crimes and abject failures. That’s why they hate him so much.
Pinochet saved Chile and restored democracy. He deserves salutes, not arrest.

And that somehow refutes my statement how?

The man was a butcher, Castro's a butcher, given enough time, I'm sure we'll be reading about Chavez's butchery.

 

[Avro]

This thread is the perfect epitome of how information is transmitted these days.

Some people will agree with the message, and in so pass off Gore's blunders because his cause is noble. Well that may be true, it would depend who you ask.

I'll go so far as to say that Gore's film helped drum up support for a movement, but in so doing, he has contributed to the "climate" of cloudy education.

Anything in this day and age, and particularly on this subject is not long for the critical eyes, and rightly so.

While I support the movement that Gore champions in the film, I am saddened at the true result of his film. Now, a persons home is reason to discredit the movement that person belongs to. Politics rules information, and I think that is very sad.

I think the IPCC would have been good enough for the Nobel committee to award. By passing that recognition onto Gore, they are endorsing a style of information dissemination that I find reprehensible.

While I will agree with your argument, it was not Gore's fault his house has become the focal point of his cause, it further reflects how the deniers avoid the actual science of climate change and revert to ad hominims.

I have repeated this once and I will again, it's a personal attack just as any attack on fellows like tim Ball.

As a matter of example one may believe the judge in the UK case about the inaccuracies of Gore's film but at the same time shrug off the meat of the message in that global warming has mans footprint all over it.

 

[Avro]

And that somehow refutes my statement how?

It dosen't, just stating an oppinion i agree with, one in which I didn't when I first read it.

Also, I find any proof of Pinochet ordering the execution and kiddanpping of political opponents lacking.

 

[flutterby]

Nonetheless, we will request a cease and desist on using words that have been identified by the receiver to be racial slurs. We've decided to leave the posts in question out of the thread, and request that all of you remember to stick to debating the points and not the debaters. There have been numerous other comments in this thread that may not be racist, but are certainly derogatory. Further intervention may result in infractions.

will the same standard apply to other isms too? if someone calles me hun or sweets, can i complain of sexism?

 

[Avro]

will the same standard apply to other isms too? if someone calles me hun or sweets, can i complain of sexism?

Seems some have become professionals when it comes to being offended.:roll:

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

For all of you who think Gore is terrible I suggest you loosen your blinders up a little to see exactly what the man who took his rightful place in the White House has been up to in the last seven years.

How anybody can be focused on Gore when Bush is turning the whole world to **** is totally beyond me. It borders on mental illness in my opinion.

 

[gerryh]

will the same standard apply to other isms too? if someone calles me hun or sweets, can i complain of sexism?

Well "sweetheart", I think you're looking for things that just aren't there. Maybe you need to sit back and relax "darlin".

 

[CDNBear]

While I will agree with your argument, it was not Gore's fault his house has become the focal point of his cause, it further reflects how the deniers avoid the actual science of climate change and revert to ad hominims.

Odd you used his house, and that alone as your focal point.

Seeing as I haven't raised that tid bit, because it really is not relavent.

What is relavent, is the fact that he proports to be a champion of the environment and yet allows one of his states largest poluters to continue to do so, on his own property.

I also attacked his energy consumption. Though I realise that he is offsetting that, it is very much like me saying...

"It's ok, I can have that extra slice of pizza, there a kid in Africa going hungry for me."

To top it off, do you not see the possiblity of him perhaps using his scare tactic moving, complete with all his inacuracies, as a spring board for his carbon credit scheme?

You seem to be able to make that leap of judgement with Ball, but not Gore.

I'm not arguing the science, I'm arguing the optics and motives here.

 

[Avro]

Well "sweetheart", I think you're looking for things that just aren't there. Maybe you need to sit back and relax "darlin".

I've seen that before, just today as a matter of fact.

 

[CDNBear]

Seems some have become professionals when it comes to being offended.:roll:

That's not true and is just another blatant attack at the poster, instead of the post.

Grow up.

 

[Avro]

Odd you used his house, and that alone as your focal point.

Seeing as I haven't raised that tid bit, because it really is not relavent.

What is relavent, is the fact that he proports to be a champion of the environment and yet allows one of his states largest poluters to continue to do so, on his own property.

I also attacked his energy consumption. Though I realise that he is offsetting that, it is very much like me saying...

"It's ok, I can have that extra slice of pizza, there a kid in Africa going hungry for me."

To top it off, do you not see the possiblity of him perhaps using his scare tactic moving, complete with all his inacuracies, as a spring board for his carbon credit scheme?

You seem to be able to make that leap of judgement with Ball, but not Gore.

I'm not arguing the science, I'm arguing the optics and motives here.

I make the judgement of Ball for the same reason anybody does of Gore, I have repeated this over and over.

They are as you say, irelevant.

If you aren't arguing the science that is news to me but if it's true I'm on your side. like I have asked you before what action do we take to change the course of this disaster. If gores tactics are not your cup of tea what would you do to get people to sign on and get this problem addressed.

I'm all ears.

 

[Avro]

That's not true and is just another blatant attack at the poster, instead of the post.

Grow up.

Sorry but I think it is.

 

[CDNBear]

I make the judgement of Ball for the same reason anybody does of Gore, I have repeated this over and over.

They are as you say, irelevant.

Please tell me that isn't an attack on a spelling error?

If you aren't arguing the science that is news to me but if it's true I'm on your side. like I have asked you before what action do we take to change the course of this disaster. If gores tactics are not your cup of tea what would you do to get people to sign on and get this problem addressed.

I'm all ears.

If you spent more time reading peoples posts and less time trying to find underhanded ways to take shots at them, you wouldn't have missed this post...

Is there a problem?

Hell yes...(Now remember that for future referrence...ok?)

Do I believe it is all mans fault?

Hell NO!!!

Do I believe we should address our environmental foot print and reduce our impact?

Of course I do, you'ld have to be a complete idiot not to.

Do I believe we should be addressing environmental damage on the whole?

Absolutely.

When I see the zealots and preachers of doomsday, attack the greater issue, I'll start buying their wears. Until then, I'll take what they offer with a whole lot of salt.

There is not one single environmental issue pushing man to the brink, there is a multitude.

The point of all that...if you missed it, is, I don't buy it when people claim to be all about the environment, while only attacking one...read one...aspect of our impact on it.

Their claims become quite disengenuous, when the cherrypick, which parts they will fight for.

Especialy when they pick which ones they will turn a blind eye to.

Sorry but I think it is.

Of course you don't, it has become a standard to which you have lowered yourself...so be it. But don't expect to many people to fall in love with it.

 

[Avro]

Please tell me that isn't an attack on a spelling error?


If you spent more time read peoples posts and less time trying to find underhanded ways to take shots at them, you wouldn't have missed this post...


Of course you don't, it has become a standard to which you have lowered yourself...so be it. But don't expect to many people to fall in love with it.

Nope, my bad on that.

No I saw it and it does not state man has had a role in global warming, just a roll on enviromantal damage.

Keep looking for racism, you won't find it bub, I run a charity every year at Christmas helping families of all races and cultures, so much for your thoeries on my bigotries. I know you will doubt it but it dosen't take away what I have done and I'm proud of it.