AGW Denial, The Greatest Scam in History?
- Thread starter Avro
- Start date
He won't have to; the official UN position on global warming is that it exists. Why don't you dig up some climate information showing the the warming trend of the last 30 years has not happened?
Hitler's official position on Jews was that they weren't "human".... He was just as wrong as the UN is on AGW.
Marc Morano is the resident authority on global warming with the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works minority staff. He says according to records kept by the United Nations, global average temperatures peaked during the El Nino year of 1998 -- and that since 2001, the temperature trend has declined slightly.
Critic cites stats -- Earth cooling down, not warming up (OneNewsNow.com)
"Study of the orbital mechanics of the solar system in the 1970s led Russians to believe the Earth was about to cool and we should prepare quickly because it will be catastrophic. Their arguments were lost in the rush to warming group-think in the 1990s, but the arguments for impending cold are well founded and still believed by many good scientists. As the sun goes even quieter and January, 2008 saw the greatest year to year temperature drop ever (128 years of NASA GISS data) and thru the end of 2008 remains relatively cool, it is clear cooling needs to be considered as a very plausible future."
Climate Cooling, the Other Side of Climate Change Science: Global Cooling
Now the rest of the story.
This excludes of course the temp drop the good captain eludes to but it also excludes the recent record breakers of the past few months. Perhaps Abdussamatov is enjoying the heat wave and drought in Russia right now.:lol:
The trend?
Warming.
...and that's just surface temps...what about the oceans?
Warming.
Psst....Marc Morano is a journalist.
Got any climatologists to link to?
Is this really the best you can do?
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Man, you sure are a trip.
As Bar Sinister requested, I provided the info.. As per your latest addition that specified 'the trend' over the last 100 years, well it appears that there are a number of trends, doesn't it? Kinda points to the futility and superficiality of your base question.
As far as Morano is concerned, he was simply referring directly to your handlers at the UN, it was afterall, their data that he reported upon.
Throws a little kink into your, uh, unsubstituted views...
Hell Avro, I really ought to thank you... There's an excellent chance that this may evolve into yet another UN sponsored fraud.
Surely this isn't the best you can do, is it?
Try Tim Ball.
Ball has a B.A. degree from the University of Winnipeg, an M.A. degree from the
University of Manitoba in 1970 in Geography, and a Ph.D. degree in geography
from the University of London, England in 1983, writing a thesis analyzing
historical weather records from Canada's north. Ball taught geography
at the University of Winnipeg from 1988 to 1996, starting as a
Sessional Lecturer and retiring as a Professor.
Though he's done related study (specializing in the relation of climate to
human settlement), he's not a Climatologist. Ball has writen several books
on Climatic effects though, so I'd assume that he is well versed on the subject.
Ball, Timothy F. (1995). "Historical and instrumental evidence of climate: Western Hudson Bay, Canada, 1714–1850". in Bradley, Raymond S.; Jones, Philip D.. Climate Since A.D. 1500. Routledge. ISBN 0415075939
Ball, Timothy F.; Kingsley, Roger A. (1984). "Instrumental temperature records at two sites in Central Canada: 1768 to 1910". Climatic Change 6 (1): 39–56. doi:10.1007/BF00141667. http://www.springerlink.com/content/l51087083622ll24/
Ball, Timothy F. (1983). Climatic change in central Canada: a preliminary analysis of weather information from the Hudson's Bay Company Forts at York Factory and Churchill Factory, 1714-1850. Queen Mary, University of London: Ph.D. Thesis. http://catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/search/?searchtype=a&searcharg=Ball%2C+Timothy&searchscope=16&SORT=A&Submit.x=48&Submit.y=27
Ball, Timothy F. (1983). "The migration of geese as an indicator of climate change in the southern Hudson Bay region between 1715 and 1851". Climatic Change 5 (3): 85–93. doi:10.1007/BF00144682. http://www.springerlink.com/content/l1412752642704v3/
Catchpole, A.J.W.; Ball, Timothy F. (1981). "Analysis of historical evidence of climate change in western and northern Canada". Syllogeus (National Museum of Canada) (33): 48–96. http://cgrg.geog.uvic.ca/abstracts/CatchpoleAnalysisThis1981.html
University of Manitoba in 1970 in Geography, and a Ph.D. degree in geography
from the University of London, England in 1983, writing a thesis analyzing
historical weather records from Canada's north. Ball taught geography
at the University of Winnipeg from 1988 to 1996, starting as a
Sessional Lecturer and retiring as a Professor.
Though he's done related study (specializing in the relation of climate to
human settlement), he's not a Climatologist. Ball has writen several books
on Climatic effects though, so I'd assume that he is well versed on the subject.
Ball, Timothy F. (1995). "Historical and instrumental evidence of climate: Western Hudson Bay, Canada, 1714–1850". in Bradley, Raymond S.; Jones, Philip D.. Climate Since A.D. 1500. Routledge. ISBN 0415075939
Ball, Timothy F.; Kingsley, Roger A. (1984). "Instrumental temperature records at two sites in Central Canada: 1768 to 1910". Climatic Change 6 (1): 39–56. doi:10.1007/BF00141667. http://www.springerlink.com/content/l51087083622ll24/
Ball, Timothy F. (1983). Climatic change in central Canada: a preliminary analysis of weather information from the Hudson's Bay Company Forts at York Factory and Churchill Factory, 1714-1850. Queen Mary, University of London: Ph.D. Thesis. http://catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/search/?searchtype=a&searcharg=Ball%2C+Timothy&searchscope=16&SORT=A&Submit.x=48&Submit.y=27
Ball, Timothy F. (1983). "The migration of geese as an indicator of climate change in the southern Hudson Bay region between 1715 and 1851". Climatic Change 5 (3): 85–93. doi:10.1007/BF00144682. http://www.springerlink.com/content/l1412752642704v3/
Catchpole, A.J.W.; Ball, Timothy F. (1981). "Analysis of historical evidence of climate change in western and northern Canada". Syllogeus (National Museum of Canada) (33): 48–96. http://cgrg.geog.uvic.ca/abstracts/CatchpoleAnalysisThis1981.html
Hitler? What a brilliant analogy. How about if I use an analogy of my own? The captain of the Titanic was warmed to watch out for icebergs - he decided to try for a record crossing time instead.
As for Marc Morano I guess he must have missed the decade from 2001 - 2010 which was the warmest on record.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/science/earth/22warming.html
When I asked for proof I was hoping for more than some numbers someone simply made up.
I took the time to look up Mr. Morano.
Lies, Conservatives and Statistics: Marc Morano's Fantasy | ConWebWatch
Apparently he is the Glenn Beck of climatologists and has little credibility among real scientists. In fact he is little more than a right wing mouthpiece for hire who will support any cause for the right amount of money. Here is a quote from Mr. Morano describing himself I am not a scientist, my background is in political science, which is why I feel I am qualified to discuss man-made global warming fears...
Yep, he is qualified alright.
Yea, I can't believe we're actually deliberating Marc Morano. Might as well be talking about Rush Limbaugh as a legitimate climatologist. And that article you posted, captain, has no actual temperature data, nor does it refer to a credible source. It's just Morano saying: "Da climate is cold since 1998."
And then you have the gall to criticize Avro when he actually posts real and qualified data? lol
We've hit a new low.
And then you have the gall to criticize Avro when he actually posts real and qualified data? lol
We've hit a new low.
Sunshine does a damn good job of making syngases in the atmosphere with or without man being the one burning things on the ground to provide the aerosol chemicals.I see. So a correlation is enough for you. I'll make note of that.
And you of course will disregard the satellite observations of a darker planet, with higher albedo. The solar energy has been on a declining trend since the 1970's:
Yet I bet you'll ignore that and continue on with your falshoods, as any denier worth their salt would.
No, what I am selling is the most probable cause. Science really isn't conclusive in the way you want. It makes conclusions, based on what is most probable. When a scientific theory has conclusiveness, it's because many related investigations find the same thing, over and over again, and the probability that the theory is wrong is very slim.
You routinely talk about science, without knowing a single thing about how it works.
The graph could use a line showing the 10% decrease and heavy drift in the magnetosphere too.
Thanks for the compliment on the analogy. It takes a big girl to admit when an effective and succinct point is made that undermines her own position.
Quite the contrary. the request on your part from post 603 was:
Clearly there was no 30 year trend, was there?
Too funny. The numbers were sourced from your altar denizens at the UN/IPCC.
As expected, when you are faced with the reality of being made to look the fool, you challenge the voracity of the messenger and (conveniently) ignore the contents of the message that was, again, developed and compiled by your handlers at the UN.
He was providing the data compiled by another group Bar... they weren't numbers that were his creation, like I said earlier, they were the spawn of the UN itself.
I suppose that in light of your high standards on the the selection of scientists that Al Gore is exempted (UK High Court ruling on his pack 'o lies), David Suzuki is gone (geneticist that warned of the coming ice age a few years back) and ofcourse, the IPCC (many, many retractions of their in-house "facts").
Doesn't leave many to choose from, unless you elect to support mentalfloss' submission of youtube factual videos.
Would he be qualified if he posted a youtube video?
No mentalfloss, that singular honour goes to you for sourcing your science through youtube.
It only factors about 10% of the warming of the last 120 years.
"Only in the anthropogenic influence is there a sufficiently large upward trend over the past 120 years to explain global surface temperature variations self-consistently with the space-era components. Accordingly, trends in solar irradiance in the past century contribute global warming of 10% or less."
Cycles and trends in solar irradiance and climate - Lean - 2009 - Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Climate Change - Wiley Online Library
That article is a really good read. Peer reviewed with no nonsense.
:salute:
No doubt.
A question for you, we were talking about Suzuki and you had mentioned his outside investment-style practices.
Do you happen to know what specific companies?
Nifty little graph that shows sources for forcing:
It should be simple to add up the clues.
1. The Earth has a cycle of warming and cooling periods.
2. There is a relatively stable balance of cooling and warming.
3. Regardless of how much we contributed to the shift, it looks like it was enough to offset the balance.
Accept it or not, that's the way it looks.
It should be simple to add up the clues.
1. The Earth has a cycle of warming and cooling periods.
2. There is a relatively stable balance of cooling and warming.
3. Regardless of how much we contributed to the shift, it looks like it was enough to offset the balance.
Accept it or not, that's the way it looks.
S'COOL: Observing Contrails
[SIZE=+1]
What are contrails?
Contrails are clouds of ice particles formed around the small particles (aerosols) which are in aircraft exhaust. When these persist after the passage of the plane they are of great interest to researchers. Under the right conditions, clouds initiated by passing aircraft can spread with time to cover the whole sky. See an article by CERES researcher Dr. Pat Minnis.
Where do contrails form?
Contrails are human-induced clouds that only form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 km - about 26,000 ft) where the air is extremely cold (less than -40°C). Because of this contrails form not when an airplane is taking off or landing, but while it is at cruise altitude. (Exceptions occur in places like Alaska and Canada, where such very cold air can sometimes be at or near ground level.) Thus, people who live under major air traffic routes, not those who live near major airports, are those who will see the most contrails. (However, some major airports are also under major air traffic routes, which can lead to confusion.) You can use an Appleman chart to predict contrail formation for your area. Of course, a contrail cannot form if no airplane passes through.
Contrail Formation
If the air is very dry, a contrail will not form behind the plane. If the air is somewhat moist, a contrail will form immediately behind the aircraft and make a bright white line that lasts for a short while (a short-lived contrail). Persistent contrails form immediately behind the airplane in very moist air. These long-lived contrails will usually grow wider and fuzzier as time passes. You may wish to review the GLOBE Contrail Formation Guide (available in several languages).
Contrail Evolution
Sometimes contrails will actually take on the characteristics of a natural cirrus cloud and no longer look like contrails after only a half hour or so. Persistent contrails can exist long after the airplane that made them has left the area. They can last for a few minutes or longer than a day. However, because they form at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will often move away from the area where they were born. When we look up into the sky, we may see old persistent contrails that formed somewhere else but moved overhead because of the wind. An example of several very persistent contrails is shown in the S'COOL cloud chart. Persistent contrails are those most likely to affect climate.
NASA could use more data on contrails. Thus, when cloud amount is estimated, it would be good to know:
Swiss Cheese Clouds Produced by Aircraft Over Texas
Are there different types of contrails?
NASA's statement does jive with nifty chart.....
[SIZE=+1]
What are contrails?
Contrails are clouds of ice particles formed around the small particles (aerosols) which are in aircraft exhaust. When these persist after the passage of the plane they are of great interest to researchers. Under the right conditions, clouds initiated by passing aircraft can spread with time to cover the whole sky. See an article by CERES researcher Dr. Pat Minnis.
Where do contrails form?
Contrails are human-induced clouds that only form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 km - about 26,000 ft) where the air is extremely cold (less than -40°C). Because of this contrails form not when an airplane is taking off or landing, but while it is at cruise altitude. (Exceptions occur in places like Alaska and Canada, where such very cold air can sometimes be at or near ground level.) Thus, people who live under major air traffic routes, not those who live near major airports, are those who will see the most contrails. (However, some major airports are also under major air traffic routes, which can lead to confusion.) You can use an Appleman chart to predict contrail formation for your area. Of course, a contrail cannot form if no airplane passes through.
Contrail Formation
If the air is very dry, a contrail will not form behind the plane. If the air is somewhat moist, a contrail will form immediately behind the aircraft and make a bright white line that lasts for a short while (a short-lived contrail). Persistent contrails form immediately behind the airplane in very moist air. These long-lived contrails will usually grow wider and fuzzier as time passes. You may wish to review the GLOBE Contrail Formation Guide (available in several languages).
Contrail Evolution
Sometimes contrails will actually take on the characteristics of a natural cirrus cloud and no longer look like contrails after only a half hour or so. Persistent contrails can exist long after the airplane that made them has left the area. They can last for a few minutes or longer than a day. However, because they form at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will often move away from the area where they were born. When we look up into the sky, we may see old persistent contrails that formed somewhere else but moved overhead because of the wind. An example of several very persistent contrails is shown in the S'COOL cloud chart. Persistent contrails are those most likely to affect climate.
NASA could use more data on contrails. Thus, when cloud amount is estimated, it would be good to know:
- Is it possible to see contrails? That is, can the high altitudes be seen from the surface, or are there too many low clouds in the way?
- If it is possible to view upper levels of the atmosphere, are contrails seen?
- If contrails are seen, are they persistent or short-lived?
- If persistent, how many were seen?
- If persistent, were natural-looking cirrus clouds also in the sky?
- If persistent and possible, how much of the sky contained contrails?
This information, if taken regularly, will help us learn where and how often contrails occur. By matching the surface observations with the satellite data, we will then know if we are using the satellite data correctly to identify contrails and determine how they affect climate.
For more information on contrails, visit Dr. Minnis' web page.
Contrails in the News:
Swiss Cheese Clouds Produced by Aircraft Over Texas
Are there different types of contrails?
[SIZE=+1]Contrails are all made of the same materials and are formed in the same way, but exist for different lengths of time. Because of the differences in contrail "life-spans", contrails can be divided into three groups: short-lived, persistent (non-spreading), and persistent spreading. See the Contrail Formation Guide for more information on how contrails form.
Short-lived contrails look like short white lines following along behind the plane, disappearing almost as fast as the airplane goes across the sky, perhaps lasting only a few minutes or less. The air that the airplane is passing through is somewhat moist, and there is only a small amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. The ice particles that do form quickly return again to a vapor state.
Persistent (non-spreading) contrails look like long white lines that remain visible after the airplane has disappeared. This shows that the air where the airplane is flying is quite humid, and there is a large amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. Persistent contrails can be further divided into two classes: those that spread and those that don't. Persistent contrails look like long, narrow white pencil-lines across the sky.
Persistent spreading contrails look like long, broad, fuzzy white lines. This is the type most likely to affect climate because they cover a larger area and last longer than short-lived or persistent contrails.
Contrail cousins are things that look like contrails but actually arise from a different physical process. For example, under the right conditions you will see vapor trails form from the wingtips of a jet on takeoff or landing. This phenomenon results from a decrease in pressure and temperature in the wingtip vortex. If conditions are right, liquid water drops form inside the vortex and make it visible. These evaporate very quickly after they form. [/SIZE]
Can contrails move, or do they stay in the location where they were formed?
Short-lived contrails look like short white lines following along behind the plane, disappearing almost as fast as the airplane goes across the sky, perhaps lasting only a few minutes or less. The air that the airplane is passing through is somewhat moist, and there is only a small amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. The ice particles that do form quickly return again to a vapor state.
Persistent (non-spreading) contrails look like long white lines that remain visible after the airplane has disappeared. This shows that the air where the airplane is flying is quite humid, and there is a large amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. Persistent contrails can be further divided into two classes: those that spread and those that don't. Persistent contrails look like long, narrow white pencil-lines across the sky.
Persistent spreading contrails look like long, broad, fuzzy white lines. This is the type most likely to affect climate because they cover a larger area and last longer than short-lived or persistent contrails.
Contrail cousins are things that look like contrails but actually arise from a different physical process. For example, under the right conditions you will see vapor trails form from the wingtips of a jet on takeoff or landing. This phenomenon results from a decrease in pressure and temperature in the wingtip vortex. If conditions are right, liquid water drops form inside the vortex and make it visible. These evaporate very quickly after they form. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Because contrails are formed at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will move away from the area where they originated. Often, when we look up into the sky, we will see old persistent contrails that formed far away but moved overhead because of the wind. [/SIZE]
How are contrails different from other clouds?[SIZE=+1]Contrails are "human-induced" clouds since they are formed by water vapor condensing and freezing on particles from airplane exhaust. Contrails are always made of ice particles, due to the very cold temperatures at high altitude. Other types of clouds can be formed by water vapor that condenses on particles which are present in the atmosphere due to many sources, such as from volcanoes or dust storms, not specifically from aircraft exhaust. Those clouds are sometimes made of water droplets, and sometimes ice crystals, depending on the temperature where they form.
Contrails only form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 km) where the air is extremely cold (less than -40 degrees C). Other clouds can form at a range of altitudes, from very close to the ground, such as fog, to very high off the ground, such as cirrus clouds. [/SIZE]
When were contrails first observed?Contrails only form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 km) where the air is extremely cold (less than -40 degrees C). Other clouds can form at a range of altitudes, from very close to the ground, such as fog, to very high off the ground, such as cirrus clouds. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Contrails were first noticed during high-altitude flights in the 1920's. However, interest in contrails really blossomed during WWII when bombers could be sighted from miles away. In fact, numerous WWII veteran accounts tell of problems to aviation due to massive contrail formations. Planes could not find their targets, and sometimes collided with each other. In 1953, a scientist named H. Appleman published a chart that can be used to determine when a jet airplane would or would not produce a contrail. [/SIZE]
Persistent spreading contrails look like long, broad, fuzzy white lines. This is the type most likely to affect climate because they cover a larger area and last longer than short-lived or persistent contrails.Nifty little graph that shows sources for forcing:
NASA's statement does jive with nifty chart.....
Prove otherwise.
The idea behind science is that people take evidence and make an idea of reality. Then they test it. if there's nothing that can disprove the idea, then the science holds. If there's something that interferes, then the science is amended or dumped. Seeing as very little (so far it's been a bunch of babbling about political agendas, scientists individual motives, "breakthrough proof of fraud* that was independently dismissed by multiple investigations)interferes with the evidence found so far, the science holds.
Yeah. And?S'COOL: Observing Contrails
[SIZE=+1]
What are contrails?
Contrails are clouds of ice particles formed around the small particles (aerosols) which are in aircraft exhaust. When these persist after the passage of the plane they are of great interest to researchers. Under the right conditions, clouds initiated by passing aircraft can spread with time to cover the whole sky. See an article by CERES researcher Dr. Pat Minnis.
Where do contrails form?
Contrails are human-induced clouds that only form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 km - about 26,000 ft) where the air is extremely cold (less than -40°C). Because of this contrails form not when an airplane is taking off or landing, but while it is at cruise altitude. (Exceptions occur in places like Alaska and Canada, where such very cold air can sometimes be at or near ground level.) Thus, people who live under major air traffic routes, not those who live near major airports, are those who will see the most contrails. (However, some major airports are also under major air traffic routes, which can lead to confusion.) You can use an Appleman chart to predict contrail formation for your area. Of course, a contrail cannot form if no airplane passes through.
Contrail Formation
If the air is very dry, a contrail will not form behind the plane. If the air is somewhat moist, a contrail will form immediately behind the aircraft and make a bright white line that lasts for a short while (a short-lived contrail). Persistent contrails form immediately behind the airplane in very moist air. These long-lived contrails will usually grow wider and fuzzier as time passes. You may wish to review the GLOBE Contrail Formation Guide (available in several languages).
Contrail Evolution
Sometimes contrails will actually take on the characteristics of a natural cirrus cloud and no longer look like contrails after only a half hour or so. Persistent contrails can exist long after the airplane that made them has left the area. They can last for a few minutes or longer than a day. However, because they form at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will often move away from the area where they were born. When we look up into the sky, we may see old persistent contrails that formed somewhere else but moved overhead because of the wind. An example of several very persistent contrails is shown in the S'COOL cloud chart. Persistent contrails are those most likely to affect climate.
NASA could use more data on contrails. Thus, when cloud amount is estimated, it would be good to know:
[/SIZE]
- Is it possible to see contrails? That is, can the high altitudes be seen from the surface, or are there too many low clouds in the way?
- If it is possible to view upper levels of the atmosphere, are contrails seen?
- If contrails are seen, are they persistent or short-lived?
- If persistent, how many were seen?
- If persistent, were natural-looking cirrus clouds also in the sky?
- If persistent and possible, how much of the sky contained contrails?These observational details can be reported in the comments section of the S'COOL report form. However, we do now ask for a count of the number of short- lived and persistent contrails visible during every observation.
This information, if taken regularly, will help us learn where and how often contrails occur. By matching the surface observations with the satellite data, we will then know if we are using the satellite data correctly to identify contrails and determine how they affect climate.
For more information on contrails, visit Dr. Minnis' web page.
Contrails in the News:
Swiss Cheese Clouds Produced by Aircraft Over Texas
Are there different types of contrails?
[SIZE=+1]Contrails are all made of the same materials and are formed in the same way, but exist for different lengths of time. Because of the differences in contrail "life-spans", contrails can be divided into three groups: short-lived, persistent (non-spreading), and persistent spreading. See the Contrail Formation Guide for more information on how contrails form.Can contrails move, or do they stay in the location where they were formed?
Short-lived contrails look like short white lines following along behind the plane, disappearing almost as fast as the airplane goes across the sky, perhaps lasting only a few minutes or less. The air that the airplane is passing through is somewhat moist, and there is only a small amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. The ice particles that do form quickly return again to a vapor state.
Persistent (non-spreading) contrails look like long white lines that remain visible after the airplane has disappeared. This shows that the air where the airplane is flying is quite humid, and there is a large amount of water vapor available to form a contrail. Persistent contrails can be further divided into two classes: those that spread and those that don't. Persistent contrails look like long, narrow white pencil-lines across the sky.
Persistent spreading contrails look like long, broad, fuzzy white lines. This is the type most likely to affect climate because they cover a larger area and last longer than short-lived or persistent contrails.
Contrail cousins are things that look like contrails but actually arise from a different physical process. For example, under the right conditions you will see vapor trails form from the wingtips of a jet on takeoff or landing. This phenomenon results from a decrease in pressure and temperature in the wingtip vortex. If conditions are right, liquid water drops form inside the vortex and make it visible. These evaporate very quickly after they form. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Because contrails are formed at high altitudes where the winds are usually very strong, they will move away from the area where they originated. Often, when we look up into the sky, we will see old persistent contrails that formed far away but moved overhead because of the wind. [/SIZE]How are contrails different from other clouds?
[SIZE=+1]Contrails are "human-induced" clouds since they are formed by water vapor condensing and freezing on particles from airplane exhaust. Contrails are always made of ice particles, due to the very cold temperatures at high altitude. Other types of clouds can be formed by water vapor that condenses on particles which are present in the atmosphere due to many sources, such as from volcanoes or dust storms, not specifically from aircraft exhaust. Those clouds are sometimes made of water droplets, and sometimes ice crystals, depending on the temperature where they form.When were contrails first observed?
Contrails only form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 km) where the air is extremely cold (less than -40 degrees C). Other clouds can form at a range of altitudes, from very close to the ground, such as fog, to very high off the ground, such as cirrus clouds. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Contrails were first noticed during high-altitude flights in the 1920's. However, interest in contrails really blossomed during WWII when bombers could be sighted from miles away. In fact, numerous WWII veteran accounts tell of problems to aviation due to massive contrail formations. Planes could not find their targets, and sometimes collided with each other. In 1953, a scientist named H. Appleman published a chart that can be used to determine when a jet airplane would or would not produce a contrail. [/SIZE]Persistent spreading contrails look like long, broad, fuzzy white lines. This is the type most likely to affect climate because they cover a larger area and last longer than short-lived or persistent contrails.
NASA's statement does jive with nifty chart.....
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You just don't get it do you? Your science is junk; your sources are junk; and you now think that calling me a girl is an insult. I will now add misogyny to your list of defects. You are also too limited to realize that your Hitler analogy was utter rubbish. Keep on trying. I am sure that one of these days you will actually make a comment regarding global warming that you can back up with sound science; something that you have failed utterly to do so far. It is quite clear that you have given up attempting any sort of rational arguments and are now resorting to cheap insults to back up your points. Good luck convincing anyone of anything other than the fact you are a Glenn Beck wannabe.