AGW Denial, The Greatest Scam in History?

Avro

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Climate Denying trolls trained to disrupt internet.

YouTube - Training Tea Party Activists In Guerilla Internet Tactics

Did you ever wonder why so many websites and comment threads are crawling with right wing climate denying trolls?
There’s a reason. They are an organized movement, promoting ignorance, and hatred for curiosity, knowledge, and expertise.
The clip is from a longer film, “AstroTurf Wars”, which describes how democracy is being distorted and hobbled by corporate funded “citizens” whose full time profession is to spread lies, confuse voters, and disrupt the democratic process with bad information.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Climate Denying trolls trained to disrupt internet.

YouTube - Training Tea Party Activists In Guerilla Internet Tactics

Did you ever wonder why so many websites and comment threads are crawling with right wing climate denying trolls?
There’s a reason. They are an organized movement, promoting ignorance, and hatred for curiosity, knowledge, and expertise.
The clip is from a longer film, “AstroTurf Wars”, which describes how democracy is being distorted and hobbled by corporate funded “citizens” whose full time profession is to spread lies, confuse voters, and disrupt the democratic process with bad information.

First question that comes to mind is "Why" Why if there is a organized movement are they doing it, and what do they hope to gain? Yes, because the majority of people do not agree with what is being posted.


Seems to me that organizations like "Astroturf" (those liberal Democrats who are left from the Ted Kennedy group) are the ones trying to go after people/groups who would like to see some changes in the direction President Obama was sending our country. Corporate America has nothing to do with the Tea Party movement, if some of them agree with it great, if they don't to bad. It is a grass roots movement that some on the extreme right would like to take charge of , but that is not going to happen, it is made up of disgruntled Republicans and Democrats who would like to see the United States go back to its basic values. You will hear this term more and more as the 2012 elections come closer. "Blue Dog Democrats" those democrats who do not agree with the so called progressives (Liberals). Between the new Republicans and Democrats there will be a change, something more manageable for us and our future.
 

Avro

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First question that comes to mind is "Why" Why if there is a organized movement are they doing it, and what do they hope to gain? Yes, because the majority of people do not agree with what is being posted.


Seems to me that organizations like "Astroturf" (those liberal Democrats who are left from the Ted Kennedy group) are the ones trying to go after people/groups who would like to see some changes in the direction President Obama was sending our country. Corporate America has nothing to do with the Tea Party movement, if some of them agree with it great, if they don't to bad. It is a grass roots movement that some on the extreme right would like to take charge of , but that is not going to happen, it is made up of disgruntled Republicans and Democrats who would like to see the United States go back to its basic values. You will hear this term more and more as the 2012 elections come closer. "Blue Dog Democrats" those democrats who do not agree with the so called progressives (Liberals). Between the new Republicans and Democrats there will be a change, something more manageable for us and our future.

Corporations just love what you teabaggers are doing and are helping you along and you don't even know it.
 

Avro

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YouTube - Nova: Permian Extinction

Over the last few decades, a growing body of evidence has come to light indicating that the Permian was not, like the much more recent extinction that killed the dinosaurs, the result of an asteroid strike, but rather, a volcanically kick-started Greenhouse event.
A few years ago, Neil DeGrasse-Tyson, astrophysicist and Project Scientist at New York’s Hayden Planetarium, hosted a NOVA piece that outlined the major puzzle pieces of what we know about this catyclysm, and why it matters today.

YouTube - Climate Denial Crock of the Week: "The Earth is Carbon Starved."

The Greatest Extinction event in Earth’s history, “The Great Dying” that killed almost every living creature some 250 million years ago, was a greenhouse event, brought on by volcanic eruptions that burned thru great deposits of coal, and created a perfect storm of toxic clouds and warming gases.
Science Daily:
Researchers at the University of Calgary believe they have discovered evidence to support massive volcanic eruptions burnt significant volumes of coal, producing ash clouds that had broad impact on global oceans.
“This could literally be the smoking gun that explains the latest Permian extinction,” says Dr. Steve Grasby, adjunct professor in the University of Calgary’s Department of Geoscience and research scientist at Natural Resources Canada.
The new research, published in Nature Geoscience, built on previous research linking prehistoric extinction events to warming from volcanism. With colleagues Dr. Benoit Beauchamp, a professor in the Department of Geoscience at the University of Calgary, and Dr. Hamed Sanei, they probed unusual layers of organic material at Buchanan Lake in northern Canada.

Researchers comb through sediments at Buchanan Lake in Northern Canada


“Our research is the first to show direct evidence that massive volcanic eruptions — the largest the world has ever witnessed — caused massive coal combustion, thus supporting models for significant generation of greenhouse gases at this time,” Steve Grasby of the university’s Department of Geoscience said.”

Science20.com continues:
Researchers at the University of Calgary believe they have discovered evidence for the hypothesis that volcanic eruptions burnt significant volumes of coal, producing ash clouds that had broad impact and was a direct factor in the late Permian extinction.
Unlike the end of dinosaurs 65 million years ago, where there is belief that the impact of a meteorite was at least one factor, the cause of the late Permian extinction is mostly speculation. Previous researchers have suggested massive volcanic eruptions through coal beds in Siberia would generate significant greenhouse gases causing global warming.
At the time of the extinction, the Earth contained one big land mass, a supercontinent known as Pangaea.

The location of volcanoes, known as the Siberian Traps, are now found in northern Russia, centred around the Siberian city Tura and also encompass Yakutsk, Noril’sk and Irkutsk. They cover an area just under two-million-square kilometers, a size greater than that of Europe. The ash plumes from the volcanoes traveled to regions now in Canada’s arctic where coal-ash layers where found.
“This could literally be the smoking gun that explains the latest Permian extinction,” says Dr. Steve Grasby, adjunct professor in the University of Calgary’s Department of Geoscience and research scientist at Natural Resources Canada.​
Grasby and colleagues discovered layers of coal ash in rocks from the extinction boundary in Canada’s High Arctic that give the first direct proof to support this and have published their findings in Nature Geoscience. ”Our research is the first to show direct evidence that massive volcanic eruptions – the largest the world has ever witnessed –caused massive coal combustion thus supporting models for significant generation of greenhouse gases at this time.”
The photos below show the comparison between the particles in deposits at Buchanan Lake, (left) and ash from modern coal fired power plants.(right)
The particles on the left are from the prehistoric deposits at Buchanan Lake. The ones on the right are from modern coal fired power plants.


The striking similarities between the two sets of ash bring to mind warnings from NASA’s James Hansen, that modern fossil fuel burning is changing the atmosphere 10,000 times faster than natural processes.
Peter Ward’s book “Under A Green Sky” kept me awake on a summer vacation 2 years ago. In it, Ward reviews the large and rapidly growing scientific literature tying mass extinctions of the past to natural volcanic warming events – in particular the Permian, which he described in a Scientific American article that was the basis for the book.
Ward pointed out that since it became clear that the “dinosaur extinction” of 65 million years ago was shown to be caused primarily by an asteroid impact, the prevailing wisdom has been that eventually an impact would be linked to every major extinction event. But that evidence has not been found.
Instead, “New geochemical evidence is coming from the bands of stratified rock that delineate mass extinction events in the geologic record, including the exciting discovery of chemical residues, called organic biomarkers, produced by tiny life-forms that typically do not leave fossils. Together these data make it clear that cataclysmic impact as a cause of mass extinction was the exception, not the rule. In most cases, the earth itself appears to have become life’s worst enemy in a previously unimagined way. And current human activities may be putting the biosphere at risk once again.”​

The story of how the Permian evolved from a slow warming event to a mass killer from the bottom of the ocean to the tops of mountains is a frightening hint of what a worst case global warming scenario could bring in coming centuries or millennia, one that I’ll cover in more detail in future posts.​



 

ironsides

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Corporations just love what you teabaggers are doing and are helping you along and you don't even know it.
One thing you are forgetting, corporations run this world, corporations are run by people, yes, you and I. You don't like it, form another political party or join one, you sure have a choice up there. Some people did just that here, I am still a Republican though.


PS: Looking forward to more of your posts about volcanism and mass extinctions. I actually agree with what you just posted.
 

Avro

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One thing you are forgetting, corporations run this world, corporations are run by people, yes, you and I. You don't like it, form another political party or join one, you sure have a choice up there. Some people did just that here, I am still a Republican though.



PS: Looking forward to more of your posts about volcanism and mass extinctions. I actually agree with what you just posted.

Yes I know, brought on by the election of a black president, everyone seemed complacent when Bush was running the ship ashore.

You may find this interesting and try something no one else did....watch it...the one at TVO is better btw.

I'm not saying I agree with everything he says but there is some truth in it.

PS....I know you don't fall into the denier catagory so I'm not surprised you understand what an increase in CO2 does.
 

captain morgan

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Waaayyy too funny.... You point-out a natural mechanism that generated this result and magically apply that concept as proof-positive of AGW.

Congratulations; you've graduated to Commander of the tin-foil hat brigade
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Waaayyy too funny.... You point-out a natural mechanism that generated this result and magically apply that concept as proof-positive of AGW.

Figures that you wouldn't get what the article actually says. It's talking about an extinction event that was preceded by a massive increase in the greenhouse effect. The Permian exitinction is not isolated either. The Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum had huge changes in the global carbon cycle, and an associated global warming that wiped out about half of the benthic community in the oceans.

The point is that what we are doing now, has been done before by natural causes. And it resulted in massive disruption and extinction. History has a habit of repeating itself, when lessons are ignored.
 

Tonington

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How convenient that you and your movement ignore those historical realities

Not at all. Paleoclimate studies inform the present. That's where the majority of climate sensitivity comes from. So, if anyone is ignoring that, it's the fringe guys like Lindzen, and Christy, and Spencer.
 

Tonington

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Don't know who those guys are, but the paleoclimatic record provides huge support that the current circumstance is fueled by Mama-nature herself.
No it doesn't. It provides support that all of the climate mechanisms that scientists have found are pushing the climate now, are not new. The only part which is new is that a species is digging up stored carbon and adding it to the carbon cycle.
 

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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Yes I know, brought on by the election of a black president, everyone seemed complacent when Bush was running the ship ashore.

You may find this interesting and try something no one else did....watch it...the one at TVO is better btw.

I'm not saying I agree with everything he says but there is some truth in it.

PS....I know you don't fall into the denier catagory so I'm not surprised you understand what an increase in CO2 does.


I also think that President Obama gave a jump start to American politics, we were getting complacent with same ol same ol. Didn't really matter who or what party was in office. Now there seems to be a genuine interest in who gets elected. Little over 51% of eligible voters voting in 2008 was not a good turn out, 49% didn't care. Maybe with the help of the "Tea Party" movement we will hit 60% in 2012. (not all right wingers) If not maybe more so called liberals will turn out, either way they will be responsible, they do claim to represent members both parties.
 

Avro

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I also think that President Obama gave a jump start to American politics, we were getting complacent with same ol same ol. Didn't really matter who or what party was in office. Now there seems to be a genuine interest in who gets elected. Little over 51% of eligible voters voting in 2008 was not a good turn out, 49% didn't care. Maybe with the help of the "Tea Party" movement we will hit 60% in 2012. (not all right wingers) If not maybe more so called liberals will turn out, either way they will be responsible, they do claim to represent members both parties.

On this I can agree.

This is good because I was beginning to think the West no longer deserved democracy.

Left...right....realist....as long as people began to care.

However I doubt that is the case in the era of doubt.

Waaayyy too funny.... You point-out a natural mechanism that generated this result and magically apply that concept as proof-positive of AGW.

Congratulations; you've graduated to Commander of the tin-foil hat brigade

Whatever you say oil industry guy.

This was not a post about now this was a post about basic physics that you and your ilk ignore.

Please....tell me what would happen to the the temps on Earth if C02 were completely removed.

Hang on Newton the shill for dirty energy is about to spew forth complete garbage.

I wonder if oilboy will suddenly pop online like magic.
 

petros

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During the past twenty years of the green movement the island of Madagascar has been denuded and is ready to have the land stripped of it's tar sands and iron ore.

What did you do to stop it?
 

Avro

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Part 2 – Climate Science and S. Fred Singer

YouTube - BBC Horizon - Science Under Attack 2/6


I think that today, there is a new kind of battle.
It’s not just a clash of ideas, but whether people actually trust science.
One of the most vocal arguments currently raging, is about climate science.

Dr Paul Nurse, head of the Royal Society, looks at the ongoing war on science, with a major focus on climate.

Part 3 – Tree Rings, the “Nature Trick”, and James Delingpole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NHr36wELGrY




Part 4 – Delingpole continued – Press reports on climate, and the difficulty of translating Science

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Orlqa039jlQ


Part 1 is mostly introduction.
Part 5
Part 6
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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On this I can agree.

This is good because I was beginning to think the West no longer deserved democracy.

Left...right....realist....as long as people began to care.

However I doubt that is the case in the era of doubt.



Whatever you say oil industry guy.

This was not a post about now this was a post about basic physics that you and your ilk ignore.

Please....tell me what would happen to the the temps on Earth if C02 were completely removed.

Hang on Newton the shill for dirty energy is about to spew forth complete garbage.

I wonder if oilboy will suddenly pop online like magic.


A post about basic physics is it?.. Tell me Commander, how do the legions of your tin-foil hatters actually apply physics in this debate other than in fabricating climate models, etc.? I asked your buddy about an issue directly related to this and once all of his ducking and weaving was finished, the answer was that there was no fundamental or underlying baseline (or theory) upon which any relative measures could be applied. That said, you can refer to any of the physical sciences all you like, but your position still has no merit whatsoever.

... But with all of these facts and revelations, I want you to keep heart, fight the good fight and renew your subscription to Suzuki and Gore's 3-ring circus. You'll always find some enablers to help feed your addiction.
 

Tonington

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I asked your buddy about an issue directly related to this and once all of his ducking and weaving was finished, the answer was that there was no fundamental or underlying baseline (or theory) upon which any relative measures could be applied.
That's an outright lie. I said there were multiple baselines for all sorts of parameters, and that they all lead to the same conclusion. That's what makes it theory, you ignorant troll. And when I said there was no magic equation, like you thought there must be, that was to say, there is no equation which gives you an answer: man made. And the supreme irony is that you talk about models without knowing a thing about them, yet if you think there must be one equation, that would be a grand model indeed.

You're an ignorant man. You should really avoid talking down to anyone about science, because you don't have two fuc king clues about how it works.