Abortion
- Thread starter Canadian Dragon
- Start date
Yup.
Let's look at it another way, tibear. Abortion has been practiced all through history. It used to be done with certain plants, in the 19th and early 20th century man-made chemicals took over. The basic method was that the woman would poison herself, hopefully killing the fetus without killing herself. Look at a newspaper or catalogue from around the turn of the century and you'll see all kinds of ads for "lady's aids." What they really are is abortion pills made from lovely things like arsenic.
The natural versions of those methods go back to ancient history and are common to all cultures. The healers and shamen used to provide them to women in need. Just to extrapolate a bit...Jesus, who never says anything about abortion, was reputed to be, among other things, a healer. Do you suppose he kept certain plants in his bag of tricks? We have no way of knowing. We know that others did though, and we know that Jesus never said anything about it.
So now we have mechanical methods. These are generally methods that were pioneered by midwives, who had taken over from the shamen when it came to women's reproductive issues. Things have been improved by modern science and technology so there is less chance of the woman bleeding to death or being killed by infection, but it basically comes down to using mechanical means instead of plants or man-made chemicals to induce a miscarriage.
The point is that until the Victorian era, abortion was a matter that was a private decision made by the woman and her medical advisor. Your religious text does not prohibit it.
Now you are trying to exert a personal belief onto people who not only do not share that belief, but have historically had a right to make that decision all by themselves without the interference of others. Women had that right when they were still considered to be little more than chattel. What gives you the right to take it away?
Yup.
Let's look at it another way, tibear. Abortion has been practiced all through history. It used to be done with certain plants, in the 19th and early 20th century man-made chemicals took over. The basic method was that the woman would poison herself, hopefully killing the fetus without killing herself. Look at a newspaper or catalogue from around the turn of the century and you'll see all kinds of ads for "lady's aids." What they really are is abortion pills made from lovely things like arsenic.
The natural versions of those methods go back to ancient history and are common to all cultures. The healers and shamen used to provide them to women in need. Just to extrapolate a bit...Jesus, who never says anything about abortion, was reputed to be, among other things, a healer. Do you suppose he kept certain plants in his bag of tricks? We have no way of knowing. We know that others did though, and we know that Jesus never said anything about it.
So now we have mechanical methods. These are generally methods that were pioneered by midwives, who had taken over from the shamen when it came to women's reproductive issues. Things have been improved by modern science and technology so there is less chance of the woman bleeding to death or being killed by infection, but it basically comes down to using mechanical means instead of plants or man-made chemicals to induce a miscarriage.
The point is that until the Victorian era, abortion was a matter that was a private decision made by the woman and her medical advisor. Your religious text does not prohibit it.
Now you are trying to exert a personal belief onto people who not only do not share that belief, but have historically had a right to make that decision all by themselves without the interference of others. Women had that right when they were still considered to be little more than chattel. What gives you the right to take it away?
Yup.
Let's look at it another way, tibear. Abortion has been practiced all through history. It used to be done with certain plants, in the 19th and early 20th century man-made chemicals took over. The basic method was that the woman would poison herself, hopefully killing the fetus without killing herself. Look at a newspaper or catalogue from around the turn of the century and you'll see all kinds of ads for "lady's aids." What they really are is abortion pills made from lovely things like arsenic.
The natural versions of those methods go back to ancient history and are common to all cultures. The healers and shamen used to provide them to women in need. Just to extrapolate a bit...Jesus, who never says anything about abortion, was reputed to be, among other things, a healer. Do you suppose he kept certain plants in his bag of tricks? We have no way of knowing. We know that others did though, and we know that Jesus never said anything about it.
So now we have mechanical methods. These are generally methods that were pioneered by midwives, who had taken over from the shamen when it came to women's reproductive issues. Things have been improved by modern science and technology so there is less chance of the woman bleeding to death or being killed by infection, but it basically comes down to using mechanical means instead of plants or man-made chemicals to induce a miscarriage.
The point is that until the Victorian era, abortion was a matter that was a private decision made by the woman and her medical advisor. Your religious text does not prohibit it.
Now you are trying to exert a personal belief onto people who not only do not share that belief, but have historically had a right to make that decision all by themselves without the interference of others. Women had that right when they were still considered to be little more than chattel. What gives you the right to take it away?
Rev, I dimly remembered leanring about the ancient contraceptive herb sylphion... likely not an abortifacient but still it's a pretty interesting story.
Briefly, "Sylphion (thought to be a member of the genus Ferula in the carrot family Apiaceae) was an herb endemic to the area around Carthage in North Africa, used by the ancient Greeks for contraception. It is thought to have been over-harvested to the point of extinction." (www.herbalgram.org)
/tangent
Briefly, "Sylphion (thought to be a member of the genus Ferula in the carrot family Apiaceae) was an herb endemic to the area around Carthage in North Africa, used by the ancient Greeks for contraception. It is thought to have been over-harvested to the point of extinction." (www.herbalgram.org)
/tangent
Rev, I dimly remembered leanring about the ancient contraceptive herb sylphion... likely not an abortifacient but still it's a pretty interesting story.
Briefly, "Sylphion (thought to be a member of the genus Ferula in the carrot family Apiaceae) was an herb endemic to the area around Carthage in North Africa, used by the ancient Greeks for contraception. It is thought to have been over-harvested to the point of extinction." (www.herbalgram.org)
/tangent
Briefly, "Sylphion (thought to be a member of the genus Ferula in the carrot family Apiaceae) was an herb endemic to the area around Carthage in North Africa, used by the ancient Greeks for contraception. It is thought to have been over-harvested to the point of extinction." (www.herbalgram.org)
/tangent
Rev, I dimly remembered leanring about the ancient contraceptive herb sylphion... likely not an abortifacient but still it's a pretty interesting story.
Briefly, "Sylphion (thought to be a member of the genus Ferula in the carrot family Apiaceae) was an herb endemic to the area around Carthage in North Africa, used by the ancient Greeks for contraception. It is thought to have been over-harvested to the point of extinction." (www.herbalgram.org)
/tangent
Briefly, "Sylphion (thought to be a member of the genus Ferula in the carrot family Apiaceae) was an herb endemic to the area around Carthage in North Africa, used by the ancient Greeks for contraception. It is thought to have been over-harvested to the point of extinction." (www.herbalgram.org)
/tangent
It isn't encouraged though, Jay. Maybe I should say that it isn't encouraged by proponents of women having the right to choose.
When you look at those who are opposed to abortion, they are the same people who are opposed to sex education and availability of birth control, especially for minors. Who is encouraging what?
When you look at those who are opposed to abortion, they are the same people who are opposed to sex education and availability of birth control, especially for minors. Who is encouraging what?
It isn't encouraged though, Jay. Maybe I should say that it isn't encouraged by proponents of women having the right to choose.
When you look at those who are opposed to abortion, they are the same people who are opposed to sex education and availability of birth control, especially for minors. Who is encouraging what?
When you look at those who are opposed to abortion, they are the same people who are opposed to sex education and availability of birth control, especially for minors. Who is encouraging what?