Abortion

[zenfisher]

So how many are you taking in??? What about the others in this forum who don't have children, "because the world is already overpopulated and there is enough starving children." How many children are you guys going to sign up for??? _ tibear

Now... not only do you want to force people to have babies, even if they are incapable of raising them forwhatever reason....Now you want to force childless couples to take on these kids. But your not trying to dictate what people should do in their lives...sheeesh.

Gerry you'd better watch it tibear will only let us use links from Canada.

 

[missile]

I think that the average North American woman would only have an abortion under the more terrible of circumstances,and that she should not be condemned for her decision. Just who are the women who are having all the abortions?

 

[tibear]

Diamond,

I think that you will find that any baby that is given up for adoption as an infant has a virtual 100% certainty of being adopted and with the government in charge of adoption, all couples are screened before they are permitted to adopt. So those two concerns of yours should be covered.

As for the orphans in other countries, most of these children are unadoptable from people outside their home countries. Politics gets in the way of human suffering and because the countries are so poor the people in those countries generally can't afford feed another mouth or two. As stated in another thread, this world can easily support everyone on it i we would all share. How does China survive with 1 Billion people in their small area of the world?? Granted there are some poor, but Canada and the US have poor as well.

The problems that foster children have are probably a result of the example they were given rather than their "not being wanted". I remember the foster children we had in homes, all of them believed that their mothers(some fathers) loved them very much but that they had problems.

Thanks for your comments. I view this forum as simply that, an opportunity for people to exchange viewpoints and share a laugh. I know it sounds corny but I really do try to live my life by the golden rule, "Do onto others as you want them to do unto you."

Zen,

I believe the crack at the childless couples was more a tongue in cheek reply. The pro-choicers seemed to want the pro-life people to take care of all of the orphans and I was simply saying that the pro-life people more than pull their weight when it comes to helping the expectant mothers and the orphans and perhaps it was time for the pro-choicers to start sharing some of the burden. If as they claim, they only want to abort the "unwanted" child to reduce the number of child with difficult lifes then perhaps they should put money, home and love where their mouths are.

Missile,

I agree with you that she shouldn't be "condemned" for her decision. However, how do you feel about woman who go for 3,4 or 5 abortions. Surely, these woman should have learned something which would have prevented subsequent pregnancies.

 

[missile]

I'd suggest that perhaps those ladies were ignorant sex trade workers.I'm also totally against the private abortion clinics as there are facilities for this procedure at all of our major hospitals.

 

[peapod]

There is some very useful information on the website of the national centre for chronic disease prevention. Here is the link on abortion...

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/surv_abort.htm

 

[peapod]

Sorry I also forgot to add stat canada links..a legitmate site. It appears that when abortion is a choice for women the rate actually go down. Here is the link to Stats Canada in the seach box you type in abortion for the data.

http://www.statcan.ca/

Another excellent site with alot of information is

http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/links.shtml

 

[tibear]

Missile,

I think your assumption about the woman with multiple abortions is quite incorrect.

I'm surprised that there are private abortion clinics at all. After all, our current Liberal government has stated on many occations that no private health care clinics will be permitted. That would be two-tiered health care.

 

[tibear]

Peapod,

How can you possibly say that when abortion is an option that the abortions actually decreased.

I looked at the site and it only has data starting in the 1990's, well after abortion was no longer illegal.

Isn't it also safe to say that when prohibition was ended that alcohol consumption increased?? I find it hard to believe that there were more abortions performed illegally than today. And how do you verify???

 

[peapod]

No, I think its safer to say you can not impose morality by legislation tibear....

Busy day fridays Jerry Eileens site that you mentioned with the popups, This is credible site, her links and information are to legitmate sites. I will post her website so others can judge for themselves by her links and information.
Also there is an indepth report of a undercover women who contacted the anti- choice regarding a pregancy, as you will see in the report...well see for yourself. Its a very interesting read.

Also since it is so graphic I will not post Gerri Santoro Story...but least we forget here is the link to her story...

http://eileen.250x.com/

This is also eileens site..lots of good information

 

[tibear]

Pea,

You seem to be jumping from one thought to another.

You bring up a point to which I put a counter arguement. You completely ignore the counter and start up on some other tangent of thought.

As for legislating morality, please remember our favourite topic of adult "incest". A law that is on the books strictly for moral purposes.

 

[peapod]

Sorry tibear I ment the deaths of women were decreased with legal abortion. As for your "morality" you cannot impose it on others, just like they could not impose it on drinking. What I mean to say the "morality" of a minority cannot force it upon the rest of us, we don't except it or want it.

To show how the rates of women's death decreased please check out the legitmate stats are elieens site. Here is the link.

http://eileen.250x.com/Main/7_R_Eile/Numbrs.htm

this is an abortion thread, please don't link pligamy into this.

 

[tibear]

Pea,

So let me get this straight, it's OK if the majority want to impose a morality law but not for a minority.

All along I thought your position was that nobody had the right to impose their moral convictions onto others.

Does this mean that since statistically, the vast majority of Canadians are Christian does that mean that it would be OK for the "majority" to pass Christian moral laws?

 

[peapod]

Thats exactly what I am saying...I am not imposing anything on you, quite the other way around as I see it. What a women does with her body is none of your business. But in the end the only thing that matters is abortion is legal and if it wasn't there would still be abortion, hidden but still there. I prefer to believe that instead of pretending something does not exist or that if I don't see it, its not a problem. Legal abortion is here tibear and its going to stay either way. And I want it availabe cheap clean and rare..

 

[tibear]

Pea,

Please reread my post!!!

You've just agreed that Canada should pass Christian morality laws!!!

What you see as a "moral" law, I see as a human rights case. I believe that the unborn doesn't have the same rights as the born.

Very similar to the SSM debate where you see the issue as human rights and I see it as moral question.

Different debate, different perspective.

 

[peapod]

No tibear I said it was your "morality" not mine. The real morality in it is to allow women to make their own decsions based on their circumstances. Its their body they know what is the best decision for their lives. And if you do not believe in abortion than the anti-choice have the "moral" obligation to tell the truth. Not doctor pictures, tell lies and prey upon the fears of women in a desperate time. I do not include you in the trickery aspects of anti-choice group. I said what I wanted to, we will never agree. Now I think I would like to play with henry for awhile.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Now I think I would like to play with henry for awhile.

Is that some sort of euphemism? :lol:

 

[zenfisher]

Zen,

I believe the crack at the childless couples was more a tongue in cheek reply. The pro-choicers seemed to want the pro-life people to take care of all of the orphans and I was simply saying that the pro-life people more than pull their weight when it comes to helping the expectant mothers and the orphans and perhaps it was time for the pro-choicers to start sharing some of the burden. If as they claim, they only want to abort the "unwanted" child to reduce the number of child with difficult lifes then perhaps they should put money, home and love where their mouths are.

HUH !!! You want people that support abortion, to adopt those would've been aborted, so that abortions won't be necessary ? How is that putting their money where their mouth is?

 

[missile]

Re: RE: Abortion

Missile,

I think your assumption about the woman with multiple abortions is quite incorrect.

I'm surprised that there are private abortion clinics at all. After all, our current Liberal government has stated on many occations that no private health care clinics will be permitted. That would be two-tiered health care.

Here, we have The Dr.Henry Morgenthaler Abortion Clinic,but I refuse to list it as a health care facility. We don't have even enough hospital beds or doctors to make us a one tiered health system.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Abortion

Does this mean that since statistically, the vast majority of Canadians are Christian does that mean that it would be OK for the "majority" to pass Christian moral laws?

Top 10 religious denominations, Canada, 2001

Roman Catholic 12,793,125 43.2%
No religion 4,796,325 16.2%
United Church 2,839,125 9.6%
Anglican 2,035,495 6.9%
Christian, not included elsewhere1 780,450 2.6%
Baptist 729,475 2.5%
Lutheran 606,590 2.0%
Muslim 579,640 2.0%
Protestant, not included elsewhere2 549,205 1.9%
Presbyterian 409,830 1.4%

1. Includes persons who report "Christian", as well as those who report "Apostolic", "Born-again Christian" and "Evangelical".

2. Includes persons who report only "Protestant".


In point of fact, the vast majority in Canada are Roman Catholic, at 43.2%...however, those who report no religion, are 16.2% of the population, more than any of the other religious affiliations...

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Products/Analytic/companion/rel/canada.cfm

Also, check out the difference between 1991 and 2001 statistics. All denominations and affiliations enjoyed an increase in number, except for Protestants which showed a sharp decline, but then most Christian denominations when taken as a percentage of the population were in decline, except for Orthodox Christians, which saw a modest increase in percentile, and Evangelical, Apostolic and "Born Again" Christians, which saw a much more dramatic increase in percentile...

Again, those reporting no religion, enjoyed an increase of 43.9% of the population over that 10 year period...this suggests to me, that people are finally starting to wake up and smell the intolerance that is at the very heart of all of these religions...

According to this statistic, Protestants are in the sharpest decline...and the greatest increase is from the people who practice Islam in Canada...

...interesting...

 

[gerryh]

So.... from your own stats....over 70% of the Canadian population reports that they are Christian. So how about you answer the question posed?