Abortion -The poll is not based upon Religious belief - It is based ethics

[BornRuff]

If abortions were limited to only happening when there was a concrete danger to a woman's physical health, then sex selection abortions would be eliminated.

So you are just confirming my belief that everyone pushing issues like sex selection are really just using it as a tool to advocate for a much more general ban on abortion.

well shyte, there ya go. That justifies killing the 100,000 plus baby's per year in Canada.

It certainly seems to make you question why you would want 10's of thousands of unwanted children brought into the world when we are not even able to care for all the kids we have now.

 

[gerryh]

It certainly seems to make you question why you would want 10's of thousands of unwanted children brought into the world when we are not even able to care for all the kids we have now.

and, of course, killing them is the answer.:roll:

 

[Sal]

well shyte, there ya go. That justifies killing the 100,000 plus baby's per year in Canada.

oh, and by the way, in Canada, children don't "age out" of the system at 16 years old. But why a little thing like facts get in the way of a good story. Right?

interesting that you would focus only on those stats...I highlighted them because I find it sad that these kids feel so alone and abandoned that they kill themselves

it is also disturbing that 5,700 kids a day become orphans.

I would have more respect for the pro-lifers if they had solutions other than adoption and showed some compassion and desire to assist children already suffering...this thread is a prime display of the sad state of our world when children are just numbers and no one cares about them after they are born

 

[BornRuff]

and, of course, killing them is the answer.:roll:

No. Never bringing them into the world in the first place is what I am talking about.

The first line of defense would always be more conventional birth control methods such as condoms, birth control pills, etc, but none of those methods are 100% effective. Abortion is an important option for when other methods fail.

 

[gerryh]

this thread is a prime display of the sad state of our world when children are just numbers and no one cares about them after they are born

obviously no one cares about them period. When it is brought up about the children murdered during times of war, the standard answer is "oh well, collateral damage, that's war". It's another example of killing innocents and it not being "murder". Always a justification for killing. Always a "ya but", always a "look over there".

No. Never bringing them into the world in the first place is what I am talking about.

The first line of defense would always be more conventional birth control methods such as condoms, birth control pills, etc, but none of those methods are 100% effective. Abortion is an important option for when other methods fail.

Ya, killing them is an option in your mind and the rest of the selfish, self involved pigs.

 

[Sal]

obviously no one cares about them period. When it is brought up about the children murdered during times of war, the standard answer is "oh well, collateral damage, that's war". It's another example of killing innocents and it not being "murder". Always a justification for killing. Always a "ya but", always a "look over there".

they always lose out because there are such large numbers of them so they are just a financial drain/burden and as long as they are not in front of our face they do not exist...they are defenseless and without many advocates for their numbers.

war and aids both result in big numbers.

Worldwide, it is estimated that 17.8 million children under 18 have been orphaned by AIDS and that this will rise to 25 million by 2015. 1
Around 15.1 million, or 85 percent of these children live in sub-Saharan Africa. 2 In some countries which are badly affected by the epidemic, a large percentage of all orphaned children - for example 74 percent in Zimbabwe, and 63 percent in South Africa - are orphaned due to AIDS. http://www.avert.org/children-orphaned-hiv-and-aids.htm#footnote3_47ncazt http://www.avert.org/children-orphaned-hiv-and-aids.htm#sthash.kUikU9YW.dpuf

 

[BornRuff]

Ya, killing them is an option in your mind and the rest of the selfish, self involved pigs.

Many people would call you self involved, seeing as you care more about imposing your personal beliefs on others than you do about the real consequences your desired actions would have on other people. As long as your conscience is happy, who cares about what actually happens to all of these other people.

There are 10's of thousands of kids in Canada who need homes. Millions around the world. Why would adding to that number be a good thing?

 

[gerryh]

There are 10's of thousands of kids in Canada who need homes. Millions around the world. Why would adding to that number be a good thing?

and like I said, your answer is to kill more babies. Not prevent, kill.


and I already know what your answer and others would be if I was to bring up the only fool proof prevention there is for pregnancy.

 

[BornRuff]

and like I said, your answer is to kill more babies. Not prevent, kill.


and I already know what your answer and others would be if I was to bring up the only fool proof prevention there is for pregnancy.

Again, I know you want to impose your personal morals on everyone else, but the fact is that it doesn't work.

Abstinence only programs don't work.

Having an abortion simply is not the same as killing a baby.

 

[Goober]

they always lose out because there are such large numbers of them so they are just a financial drain/burden and as long as they are not in front of our face they do not exist...they are defenseless and without many advocates for their numbers.

war and aids both result in big numbers.

Worldwide, it is estimated that 17.8 million children under 18 have been orphaned by AIDS and that this will rise to 25 million by 2015. 1
Around 15.1 million, or 85 percent of these children live in sub-Saharan Africa. 2 In some countries which are badly affected by the epidemic, a large percentage of all orphaned children - for example 74 percent in Zimbabwe, and 63 percent in South Africa - are orphaned due to AIDS. http://www.avert.org/children-orphaned-hiv-and-aids.htm#footnote3_47ncazt http://www.avert.org/children-orphaned-hiv-and-aids.htm#sthash.kUikU9YW.dpuf

Sal there are quite a few on this Forum that realize how single mothers are treated, like dirt. How low income cannot afford proper nutritional foods from social assistance to the working poor.
How our Govt managed foster care at times is a disgrace.

 

[gerryh]

Sal there are quite a few on this Forum that realize how single mothers are treated, like dirt. How low income cannot afford proper nutritional foods from social assistance to the working poor.
How our Govt managed foster care at times is a disgrace.

Single women in Canada treated poorly? Not afford proper nutritional foods? Do you realize what a single mother on welfare get's in BC and Alberta?( I can't speak to the other provinces as I have no experience with them)


here's an example...here in Alberta. Single Mom with one school age child.

1200/month plus federal and provincial "baby bonus"(not the right label) This added another 300/month
Subsidized rent (brought her rent down to around 400/month)
Free bus pass
Free day care
Free summer camps for the child
Free medical, dental, prescriptions, eye glasses.
School start up bonus ( for clothes, books, etc.)


Now the above list is not completely comprehensive, but it gives you an idea.

Again, I know you want to impose your personal morals on everyone else, but the fact is that it doesn't work.

My personal morals? and what would they be, oh wise one.

 

[BornRuff]

My personal morals? and what would they be, oh wise one.

Read my post.

 

[gerryh]

Read my post.

answer the question.

 

[JLM]

In Canada, there are nearly 30,000 children in the foster care system available for adoption..

Additionally, there is a pervasive belief, shared both by individuals considering foster care adoption and those
who are not, that children in foster care are more likely to suf
fer from a variety of issues, such as behavioural
issues and difficulty bonding, than children adopted internationally or privately
. Specifically:
•
51 per cent of Canadians believe children in foster care were juvenile delinquents. In reality,
children enter the foster care system through no fault of their own, as victims of neglect,
abandonment or abuse.
•
45 per cent of Canadians think children adopted through foster care are more likely than other
children to face challenges with trust and bonding.
•
40 per cent of Canadians think children adopted through foster care are more likely than other
children to have behaviour or self-control issues.
•
51 per cent of people who have considered foster care adoption think the children will have
problems with trust and bonding.
•
49 per cent of people who have considered foster care adoption think the children are more likely to
have behavioural problems.
•
76 per cent of individuals who have considered foster care adoption are concerned about the cost
of raising a child to adulthood, which is higher than those who have not considered foster care
adoption (54 per cent).
•
81 per cent of those who have considered adoption fear that birth parents would take the child back
after the adoption. This myth is completely false – once an adoption is final, a birth parent’s rights
are permanently terminated

I don't know where they get those figures from- I was never asked!

 

[Goober]

Single women in Canada treated poorly? Not afford proper nutritional foods? Do you realize what a single mother on welfare get's in BC and Alberta?( I can't speak to the other provinces as I have no experience with them)


here's an example...here in Alberta. Single Mom with one school age child.

1200/month plus federal and provincial "baby bonus"(not the right label) This added another 300/month
Subsidized rent (brought her rent down to around 400/month)
Free bus pass
Free day care
Free summer camps for the child
Free medical, dental, prescriptions, eye glasses.
School start up bonus ( for clothes, books, etc.)


Now the above list is not completely comprehensive, but it gives you an idea.



My personal morals? and what would they be, oh wise one.

http://www.caledoninst.org/Publications/PDF/1031ENG.pdf

Page 33.

 

[gerryh]

http://www.caledoninst.org/Publications/PDF/1031ENG.pdf

Page 33.

actually, it's page 35 for a single mom and child, and by the looks of it, it's more than what I said it was.

 

[BornRuff]

answer the question.

....

and I already know what your answer and others would be if I was to bring up the only fool proof prevention there is for pregnancy.

Abstinence only programs don't work.

 

[Twila]

Single women in Canada treated poorly? Not afford proper nutritional foods? Do you realize what a single mother on welfare get's in BC and Alberta?( I can't speak to the other provinces as I have no experience with them)


here's an example...here in Alberta. Single Mom with one school age child.

1200/month plus federal and provincial "baby bonus"(not the right label) This added another 300/month
Subsidized rent (brought her rent down to around 400/month)
Free bus pass
Free day care
Free summer camps for the child
Free medical, dental, prescriptions, eye glasses.
School start up bonus ( for clothes, books, etc.)


Now the above list is not completely comprehensive, but it gives you an idea.



My personal morals? and what would they be, oh wise one.

from experience as a single mother on welfare in BC, I received $1100 a month. $650 went to an apartment (luckily I was able to get a 2 bedroom with heat/electricity/hot water). This left me with $450 dollars to buy food for the month (plus cab fare cause you can't haul lots of bags and a small child, Pay for cable (if I choose cable)telephone, bus fare (dr. appts.) Diapers (for when my daughter was in them) cloths for both of us, plus sundries (shampoo, conditioner, band aids, cough syrup, tylenol, etc) hair cuts. Gifts (birthday gifts for my daughters friends) etc. It's not much money.

The gov't does not subsidize rent. If you are lucky to live in subsidized housing, they deduct 30% from your check.

You can get a bus pass IF you're working, they will deduct your pay dollar for dollar (which they should) but your free bus pass is only given while you are still making less then your welfare chq.
You don't get FREE day care: They give $350/month for full time (daycares charge $800+ full time) or $250 part time / after school care ( daycares charge $400-500)

They give $50/ child / year for school clothes and supplies.

I can't even begin to describe how demeaning it is to go into a welfare office and ask for the handout. Or having to tell everyone who asks (and people do as what you do for a living. It's small talk ) that you're on welfare. The worse experience of my life. Sometimes it's not your choice to take welfare. It was something I had to do in order that my daughter not starve and because I didn't want her raised in foster care by strangers.

 

[Goober]

actually, it's page 35 for a single mom and child, and by the looks of it, it's more than what I said it was.

From 1986 till 2010 the dollars adjusted dropped. How is that better?

 

[gerryh]

from experience as a single mother on welfare in BC, I received $1100 a month. $650 went to an apartment (luckily I was able to get a 2 bedroom with heat/electricity/hot water). This left me with $450 dollars to buy food for the month (plus cab fare cause you can't haul lots of bags and a small child, Pay for cable (if I choose cable)telephone, bus fare (dr. appts.) Diapers (for when my daughter was in them) cloths for both of us, plus sundries (shampoo, conditioner, band aids, cough syrup, tylenol, etc) hair cuts. Gifts (birthday gifts for my daughters friends) etc. It's not much money.

The gov't does not subsidize rent. If you are lucky to live in subsidized housing, they deduct 30% from your check.

You can get a bus pass IF you're working, they will deduct your pay dollar for dollar (which they should) but your free bus pass is only given while you are still making less then your welfare chq.
You don't get FREE day care: They give $350/month for full time (daycares charge $800+ full time) or $250 part time / after school care ( daycares charge $400-500)

They give $50/ child / year for school clothes and supplies.

I can't even begin to describe how demeaning it is to go into a welfare office and ask for the handout. Or having to tell everyone who asks (and people do as what you do for a living. It's small talk ) that you're on welfare. The worse experience of my life. Sometimes it's not your choice to take welfare. It was something I had to do in order that my daughter not starve and because I didn't want her raised in foster care by strangers.

The example I gave was Alberta, and those I know for a fact.