A challenge to our dear Christian friends.

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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I have said that I'm not a religious man but I will respect those who are. The many stupid wars that have been fought over religion are among the reasons why I'm not religious. I have known lots of very good people who were religious and my parents.were among them. Using a shotgun to insult everyone doesn't help your argument.

Very good people make mistakes in judgement Juan. I object to most self-declared christians of the day because they know little about the religion it's origin or the ten-thousand sects that claim to have the original word of the sky-god and a manual for accension to a fluffy paradisical delusion, they have all set thier chain in the millstone of the contemporary expression of the cult and as such have ceased the search for truth believing they have incorporated a finished flawless method,which they claim is the exclusive work of god, every word devine.
Now if I allowed a child to insist that a duck I had under my arm was really a golden egg layin magic chicken without correcting the kid would that in any way be the action of a responsible benevolent adult or could I more properly be considered to be contributing to the delinguincy of a minor? And which would be the christian thing to do, encourage the filling of thier half empty glass or not extend the effort (in a shellfish manner) for the proper growth and evolution of the aformentioned specimin? Shotguns are great for flock control eh and anyway I didn't read the post you're objecting to so I don't really know if this post addresses your displeasure, which I lament ever so slightly having fostered by the alledged insults.:smile:
 

mrgrumpy

Electoral Member
Any Church should not promote any action if they don't have such instruction from Scripture. Scripture, by itself, is not corrupt nor does it promote unkind actions towards others.

Scriptural writing promotes, supports, directs and instructs all kinds of evil, murder, corruption, slavery, infanticide, torture, hatred, revenge, war,abuse of women,and just about every other kind of misery imaginable. It's all there in black and white. It's called the Old Testament.

Maybe you should give it a read before making such ridiculous statements.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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Scriptural writing promotes, supports, directs and instructs all kinds of evil, murder, corruption, slavery, infanticide, torture, hatred, revenge, war,abuse of women,and just about every other kind of misery imaginable. It's all there in black and white. It's called the Old Testament.

Maybe you should give it a read before making such ridiculous statements.

I might agree is it was not called "OLD" compared to "NEW", do you need the definitions to those two words?
Go ahead post some verses from the NT that support your view.
 

mrgrumpy

Electoral Member
ho hum, while I'm waiting for a reply from our dear friend in RED DEER, which is probably not forthcoming,and since tomorrow is Sunday and since I know that virtually all the good people of that city piously attend church services on Sunday, I will toss you a little something that may give you reflection tomorrow as you're warming the pew. Yes, as requested it is from THE NEW TESTAMENT, so I hope yer happy!

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak...and if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home.For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." 1 Corintians 14 34-36

There you have it from your loving God. Women are to shut up and obey!

Think about that while they're passing around the collection plate.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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I agree that, the eradication of religion would not rid the world of violence or war, BUT it
would cut a huge swath into the problem, and that would create good progress in human
behavior and tolerance and understanding between peoples of the world, and quite
probably some of the other problems would be and could be dealt with much easier.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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I agree that, the eradication of religion would not rid the world of violence or war, BUT it
would cut a huge swath into the problem, and that would create good progress in human
behavior and tolerance and understanding between peoples of the world, and quite
probably some of the other problems would be and could be dealt with much easier.

tolerance and understanding? By eradicating the religious? That's neither tolerant NOR understanding. It's the absolute opposite. People are born spiritual and seeking answers all the time. Religion will always fill that need. The only way to get rid of religion in some form or another, is to eradicate people born with a spiritual sense. Theorizing 'what if' is essentially like pondering how much less violence there could be in the world if we could eradicate racial differences. It's simply advocating a different form of genocide.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Those Prosperous Pastors - When to Say No
By Dennis DiehlDennis Diehl
Level: Platinum

Dennis was a 26 year pastor. Having experienced this reckless shift in how a Church chose to change itself, Dennis began to bring to the ...

Article Word Count: 1068 [View Summary] Comments (0)


There is little on the planet more disgusting and infuriating than the in your face prosperity of Televangelists, Christian College Executives, Healing Hedonists and Mega-Church Ministers. I see it locally here when a pastor type comes into visit the sick with a gold ring on each finger, gold watch, gold necklace and dressed to kill. Of course, they always carry a dog eared Bible to send the correct message when the lay it up on the counter for all to see.
Recently the self appointed Apostle of the Restored Church of God in Wadsworth, Ohio has given his clarion call sermon for the faithful to cash in what they can, including equity in homes, retirement funds and property resources and "send it here!" Time is short you know, and the minister has a great work to do on behalf of the people. He just needs the bucks. Of course, this formula is a disaster waiting to happen, so we'll see. He's not asking for a mere 1, 2 or 3 thousand either. How about 10, 20, 50 or 100 thousand is more what the Pastor has in mind. It's actually quite sickening. But self appointed Gurus, Pastors, Apostles and Watchmen get to do such things without much oversight. They seem to know the members won't question it, and if they do, there are plenty of scriptures to make them feel faithless for doing so.
And now we have another declaring...
"Jesus Died So We Could Be Rich! Declares Biblical Expert and Best Selling Author Dr. Norman Robertson Believes U.S. Investigation on Mega-Church Pastors is Unjust Because God Wants Us to Be Rich
CHARLOTTE, N.C.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The recent investigation of several mega-church pastors has some people happy that the Senate is finally getting involved and forcing the pastors to account for their lavish material possessions and lifestyles. Others think the targeting of these pastors is unfair and unmerited. One such advocate of pastors and other Christians living prosperous lives is Dr. Norman Robertson, an acclaimed authority on biblical finance and biblical concepts of successful living. Dr. Robertson, who has been teaching and writing about God's financial plan and "The Prosperity Gospel" for more than 20 years, is an expert who maintains that the Bible declares that God wants His people to prosper."
So there you have it. Jesus died so you could be rich. God runs a huge pyramid scheme so you can be rich evidently. Evidently God's plan falls a bit short of reality for the vast majority on the planet, but it's good to know he has this plan for us all. Perhaps the "We" for Dr. Norman Robertson are just pastors who pull this stunt on the faithful.
Of course, no Jesus died so you could be physically rich. If that is so, then he should have save his breath as the plan failed miserable anyway. However, the Jesus of these types of Pastors may well have died so they could prosper, which they have very well.
Let's be reminded of what the average member of a congregation, where a pastor is asking or even demanding their money needs to remember.
1. Never loan money to someone who announces to you that they are "a good Christian." You'll probably never see it again.
2. Never allow a good Christian to give you something and "we can work it out later." You might find you have lost your home and three of your children.
3. Never give a church or minister what you have not got! No use of credit cards to help the church and no taking out of personal loans for the group or local minister, no matter how much you are told "the church" will pay your right back. They won't and make you feel badly for ever asking to be paid back.
4. Never will your property and resources to your church, unless you have absolutely no one else on the planet to share it with. It is not worth it and it is impossible to undue. Many Churches want members to include the church and make some promise to share with surviving children etc. Don't do it! People change churches, circumstances and affiliations change over a lifetime and you will have hell to pay in trying to straighten it all out and your survivors never will. Churches I know have left the children of members swinging in the wind with no seeming conscience about the the whole thing.
5. Never give what you have not got. One more time. Never give what you have not got.
6. Never offer to pay for things for the minister, his home or his family that you cannot afford. A man that would allow you to do such a thing should be avoided as a pastor anyway. If the church can't pay him an adequate salary, don't offer to make up the differences. It never ends and encourages the minister to not do his part when he could.
7. Be sure that any offer to give freely or at a discount to the church or pastor is YOUR idea first and you have not been goaded, guilted or suggested into it. "Yes I can help," or "No, I can't afford it," go a long way in keeping you out of these weeds.
There are also reasons NOT to give to a Church.
1. Don't give when the motivation is "time is short" so you may as well help the church
2. Don't give to a church where you are told once you give it, it is God's to decide what to with it. In this case, just throw your money up in the air and what does not come down, is God's, the rest is yours.
3. Don't give to a church where only ONE Pastor, Minister or Apostle gets to account for it all. That is a formula for foolishness and your hard earned money being spent on anything from horses for the kids, to gold and toys for the pastor.
4. Don't give to a church where after you give, it is NONE of your business.
Of course there are many fine ministers out there who would not behave this way. But those are not the ones that are going to leave you and your family crying behind closed doors. If you give to a minister or organization that displays no sense of accountability for what they are actually doing with your hard earned money...
Stay Home From Church...Save 10%

How are the innocent (me) to tell the good from the bad christians when the good will not keep to thier hairsuits and vows of poverty.
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
I agree that, the eradication of religion would not rid the world of violence or war, BUT it
would cut a huge swath into the problem, and that would create good progress in human
behavior and tolerance and understanding between peoples of the world, and quite
probably some of the other problems would be and could be dealt with much easier.

You say the nicest most senseable things with so efficient use of words, I'm envious, oh my I'v sinned.
 

mrgrumpy

Electoral Member
Karrie misses the point. It is a demonstratable fact that all children, sans brainwashing, are atheists.

If religion is what we throw at them to "fill the need" in seeking answers, then we do them a huge disservice.

If organized religion is all we can offer to address questions touching on spritual matters we are deficient and lazy as parents.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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Karrie misses the point. It is a demonstratable fact that all children, sans brainwashing, are atheists.

you've made that assertion previously, I have challenged you to prove it, and you have ignored me. It is NOT demonstrable that children are naturally born atheist. It is demonstrable that children will model their parents' belief systems during their formative years, be they atheist, spiritual, or religious.
 

mrgrumpy

Electoral Member
Dearest Karrie,

I know that psych students generally live in the realm of the improbable and unprovable, and with latent desires of wanting to get into better paying fields, such as law for instance, one might consider a small , shall we say test, that proves the point of children being atheists. Of course even a dolt could see your weak attempt at trying to rephrase the issue in terms of "modelling their parent's behavior" - clever but transparent.

Children (absent any religious influence) do not know the concept of Supreme Being because it is antithesis to their experience of the world around them. They experience reality without superficialities that mommy and daddy may impose on them later, which is accurately called brainwashing.

No child will express any concept of God other than that which has been implanted in the child's mind. That's were the poisoning begins - mommy and/or daddy teach the child, usually , that there is a magical world of angels and doggies that go to heaven, completely seperate from the real world.

Of course it might be a little harsh, from a lawyer's perspective to say 'Prove it', but at the end of the day, if we are rational, proof and not wishful thinking or magical beings are what the world requires to function.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Are you saying the Old Testament portions of the Holy Bible don't qualify as Scripture?

Well certainly they are Scripture, there are hundreds of verses that are still to be fulfilled.
How we are to treat one another is only found in the NT. In those texts you will find nothing that advocates "all kinds of evil, murder, corruption, slavery, infanticide, torture, hatred, revenge, war,abuse of women,and just about every other kind of misery imaginable"

Is that verse below the best you can come up with?

ho hum, while I'm waiting for a reply from our dear friend in RED DEER, which is probably not forthcoming,and since tomorrow is Sunday and since I know that virtually all the good people of that city piously attend church services on Sunday, I will toss you a little something that may give you reflection tomorrow as you're warming the pew. Yes, as requested it is from THE NEW TESTAMENT, so I hope yer happy!

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak...and if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home.For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." 1 Corintians 14 34-36

There you have it from your loving God. Women are to shut up and obey!

Think about that while they're passing around the collection plate.
I have already replied to this. Notice it covers being silent only in Church, they are more than free to speak on any subject for the other 6 days (a liberty they have been known to exercise as often as it suits them). That would also include the rest of the day when they are not actually in Church. As a male I doubt very much your voice was ever allowed to voice an opinion while attending RCC services.

BTW, today is the Sabbath, didn't they teach you even that much.
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
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Northern California
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak...and if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home.For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." 1 Corintians 14 34-36>>>mrgrumpy
The spiritual message in that verse is this: Let the flesh be silent and the spiritual voice speak, for the flesh is shameful in the spiritual congregation.

In short, the flesh and the spirit are always at odds with each other.
We are already in the flesh conditioned to the fleshly desires, so the object is to mind the spirit in order to overcome those fleshly desires.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

In understanding then Gods word, the thing spoken about is a picture of the flesh against the spirit and nothing to do with the female presiding over the congregation.

Peace>>>AJ
 

mrgrumpy

Electoral Member
What wonderful excuses you two offer!!

MHz agrees women should shut up in church but are actually allowed to talk the other 6 days and Lookie Lookie gives us an INTERPRETATION of what he/she thinks it might mean in terms of overcoming FLESHLY DESIRES!!

I'm giving up George Carlin's hilarious rants against religion - this forum is just the biggest deposit of funny religious goofery I've ever seen!!!

Thanks so much - you've affirmed my beleif about reigious quacks.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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MHz agrees women should shut up in church but are actually allowed to talk the other 6 days and Lookie Lookie gives us an INTERPRETATION of what he/she thinks it might mean in terms of overcoming FLESHLY DESIRES!!


Thanks so much - you've affirmed my beleif about reigious quacks.

Don't forget that 'shut up' also applies to men when Christ is speaking.

Are you getting rattled, you spelling when downhill. That is sometimes a sign of stress.

So that's it, one verse out of all the instructions Jesus and the Apostles gave.
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
15
38
Northern California
Obviously mrgrumpy, a seeing individual can not see at all when it comes to the spiritual.
For all you can see is what is in front of you.

Now as for MHz, I see that individual looking through a glass darkly, not yet seeing through it clearly, but is seeking.

If I offended you Mhz, by what I said, I would think that you would understand, based on what words you've written stating your position on the words of the bible.

The unbeliever will be confused because there is no faith to establish any spiritual insight into Gods word, but to you, I expect it.

Peace>>>AJ