10 things you (probably) didn’t know about Henry V and the Battle of Agincourt

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
50,026
1,916
113
Neither Henry V's strategic vision nor the French tactics can be seriously defended (letters, 3 November), but no consequences? First, the campaign took Harfleur, an immensely important commercial port. Second, Henry was the rightful king of France, his claim deniable only by something called the Salic Law that was cut out of the whole cloth by pseudo-scholars at the Sorbonne in 1337 and had no historical justification. As a result of the battle, his son was crowned King of France in Paris. No result?

Henry's order to kill the prisoners was entirely justified because a small French raiding party had attacked his baggage train and massacred the boys and cripples guarding it. There were so many prisoners and so many weapons lying about that to have allowed them to continue alive would have posed an unacceptable threat to his army which, rather than the humanitarian susceptibilities of your correspondent, had to be his primary concern.

Peter Croft
Cambridge


Letters: 'War crimes' at Agincourt - Letters - Voices - The Independent
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
Henry V unjustly ordered the massacre of thousands of French Knights and Soldiers who surrendered. It was such a dastardly and cowardly order that the English Knights refused and left it to the ignorant english peasants.


Some victory.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
50,026
1,916
113
Henry V unjustly ordered the massacre of thousands of French Knights and Soldiers who surrendered. It was such a dastardly and cowardly order that the English Knights refused and left it to the ignorant english peasants.


Some victory.


He actually ordered the massacre because the French attacked his baggage train and murdered the boys and cripples guarding it.

The attackers were captured and held prisoner by the English along with the other French prisoners. There soon became so many Frog prisoners of war and weapons lying around that Henry ordered them to be killed to stop them being a threat to his army.

His army, not enemy prisoners, was his first concern.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
The order was so cowardly and heinous that the so called english nobles refused their cowardly king's orders. The massacre at Agincourt brought more shame back to england than glory most historians said.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
Henry V ordered the slaughter of thousands of surrendered French Knights and Soldiers, most of them wounded, all of them with no means to fight back was one of the most shameful cowardly acts in history. Great shame was once again brought upon the ingrish.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
50,026
1,916
113
all of them with no means to fight back

Bollocks. They were slaughtered to PREVENT them fighting back, what with lots of them and their weapons lying around.

You would have been a bloody terrible commander on a medieval battlefield. You would have led your men to slaughter, not a great victory against a massively numerically superior army like Henry V did.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
Most historians agreed that the sniveling king needlessly ordered the slaughter of wounded surrendered French prisoners. The inaction of the so called english nobles to carry out their cowardly king's orders give testament to the unneeded massacre of the noblest of foes.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
50,026
1,916
113
Most historians agreed that the sniveling king needlessly ordered the slaughter of wounded surrendered French prisoners. The inaction of the so called english nobles to carry out their cowardly king's orders give testament to the unneeded massacre of the noblest of foes.


What drivel.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
No. Henry V's queen was Catherine of Valois. She married Henry in 1420 and was his wife until his death on 31st August 1422. She was the daughter of King Charles VI of France and gave birth to Henry's heir, the future Henry VI (who, along with Edward IV, is the only person to have been English monarch twice). After Henry died she eventually had a sexual relationship with the Welshman Sir Owen Tudor, a relationship which bore them a son, Edmund Tudor, 1st Earl of Richmond. In turn, Edmund Tudor and Lady Margaret Beaufort bore Henry Tudor, who defeated King Richard III at the Battle of Bosworth in 1485 to become King Henry VII, the first Tudor monarch and the father of King Henry VIII.

Not only that, but Catherine's older sister Isabella was queen of England from 1396 until 1399 as the child bride of Henry V's cousin, once removed: Richard II.

Sad for England the blood line was lost to pretenders of the illegitimate Tudor dynasty which inhereted none of the military acumen the Plantagenets, as show Henry VIII's disastrous and vainglorious attempts to conquer France.. which bankrupted the nation, debased the coinage, led to sinking of the Mary Rose (although apparently it capsized of its own top heavy design flaws, symbolic of Henry's reign) and ignonminious defeat to Francis I of France at the Naval Battle of Solent.. a mere 130 years after the Battle of Agincourt.
 
Last edited:

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
50,026
1,916
113
Unfortunately military skill and good leadership are not an inherited attribute.. given Henry VIII disastrous and vainglorious attempts to conquer France..

An invasion which occurred in the 1540s during the Italian Wars, when England was allied to the Holy Roman Empire (the Habsburgs) which was fighting France.

In the 1540s, Henry decided to lay siege to Boulogne after the French gave aid to England's troublesome enemy, Scotland.

Not only that, but Henry - like Henry V and other English kings before him as far back as Edward III - had laid claim to the French throne thanks to his descent from Isabella, wife of Edward II.

Also, like those monarchs, he wanted back the lands which the French had stolen from the English (King John) in the early 13th century and which were now part of France (places like Normandy, Aquitaine and Anjou). It was all this which led to England invading France in 1340 to start the Hundred Years' War, which saw great English victories like Agincourt and Crecy during the English attempt to reclaim those lands which the French had taken.

By rights, to this day most of what is now northern and western France should be part of England and the UK.

which bankrupted the nation,
That happened in the 1510s in the Italian Wars in a conflict in which England was supported by the Pope.

In October 1511, Pope Julius II set up the anti-French Holy League, which brought France into conflict with Spain.

Henry - who still claimed the French crown and wanted back his ancestral lands which were annexed by the French in the 13th Century - brought England into the Holy League. The English and their Spanish allies then attacked Aquitaine to try and recover that land for England. However, this was a failure, and it turned out the Spanish were using the attack to further their own ends.

Nevertheless, the French were pushed out of Italy soon after, and the alliance survived, with both parties keen to win further victories over the French.

Henry then pulled off a diplomatic coup by convincing the Holy Roman Emperor to join the Holy League. Remarkably, Henry had also secured the promised title of "Most Christian King of France", and possibly coronation by the Pope himself in Paris, if only France could be defeated.

Henry VIII's claim to France was supported by the Pope himself.

,led to sinking of the Mary Rose (although apparently it sunk of its own accord)
The sinking of the Mary Rose occurred in the Solent between Portsmouth and the Isle of Wight in 1545 during the Italian Wars.

François van der Delft, the Holy Roman Empire's ambassador to England, wrote in a letter the only confirmed eyewitness account of the tragedy, which was related to him by one of the ship's Flemish crewmen.

According to the unnamed Fleming, the ship had fired all of its guns of one side and was turning to present the guns on the other side to the enemy ship, when she was caught in a strong gust of wind, heeled and took in water through the open gunports.

Three years after the sinking, the Hall's Chronicle gave the reason for the sinking as being caused by "to[o] much foly ... for she was laden with much ordinaunce, and the portes left open, which were low, & the great ordinaunce unbreached, so that when the ship should turne, the water entered, and sodainly she sanke."


and defeat to Frances 1.
Actually, the French lost the Italian Wars against the Habsburgs and their allies, including Henry VIII's England.

In 1520, Francis even tried to suck up to Henry. Francis tried to woo Henry at the Field of the Cloth of Gold in 1520 to try and get Henry's support in his struggle against the Habsburgs, but he failed.

As a result, he ended up having to form a Franco-Ottoman alliance with Suleiman the Magnificent, a controversial move for a Christian king at the time.

So sayeth the cowardly king's jesters and fools.... while the people writhed in squalor and filth.


The victory at Agincourt marked a period of rejoicing throughout England and Wales (the now defunct Kingdom of England).

Even folk songs were written about it, including this one written not long after the battle.

Agincourt Carol (in its original Middle English)

Deo gratias Anglia redde pro victoria!
[England, give thanks to God for victory!]


Owre Kynge went forth to Normandy
With grace and myght of chyvalry
Ther God for hym wrought mervelusly;
Wherefore Englonde may call and cry


Chorus
Deo gratias!
Deo gratias Anglia redde pro victoria!


He hette sege, forsothe to say,

To Harflu towne with ryal aray;

That toune he wan and made afray

That Fraunce shal rewe tyl domesday.

Chorus

Then went hym forth, owre king comely,
In Agincourt feld he faught manly;
Throw grace of God most marvelsuly,
He had both feld and victory.

Chorus


Ther lordys, erles and barone

Were slayne and taken and that full soon,
Ans summe were broght into Lundone
With joye and blisse and gret renone.

Chorus

Almighty God he keep owre kynge,
His peple, and alle his well-wyllynge,

And give them grace wythoute endyng;
Then may we call and savely syng:

Chorus


 
Last edited:

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
Even folk songs were written about it, including this one written not long after the battle.

All of england's jesters, bards, and fools were tasked and commissioned the cowardly king.... and the people were commanded to rejoice from their squalor and filth they were forced to called home.