10 Marines killed near Falluja

[moghrabi]

RE: 10 Marines killed nea

Al-Sistani is an Iranian cleric living in Iraq. If he gets control, then you have a second Khomeini in place. I have read about him. He has a very clever agenda. I hope it works. This will be the biggest disaster for the US. Another IRAN.

 

[jimmoyer]

At least Saddam was in control !!

What it took for him to do that ?

Is that the glue of society you depend on?

As far as al Sistani, I'm not sure if your reading of him is enough nuanced. Dig deeper on that guy. He appears to have great respect and in that has considerable power. There's alot more behind his history.

I've seen him call for American troops to leave, but also work with them to reduce the violence of the very young Sadr in Nadjaf. I've seen him ask for restraint of his fellow Shia in seeking revenge on the sunni who worked for Saddam. I've seem him ask for restraint of the clerics to refrain from political office.

This is very nuanced. He is also very old school, but also very wise in the reading of Islam, the Koran (forgive the spelling) and perhaps so wise in his reading that he may glean more of its teachings than the shallow fundamentalism that grips much of the youth.

I wish Moghrabi we could come to some more deeper understanding. I am very appalled at the Bush administration, and you are doing very well on that battle. I'd just like to join you on deepening an understanding beyond the partisan level.

I request no compromise on your part, but would definitely like to discuss the deeper details of Iraq that escape both the liberals, conservatives, moderates and the rest of us outsiders.

Sincerely.

 

[moghrabi]

RE: 10 Marines killed nea

You are welcome to discuss any issue with me. I am open to have a personal chat with you if you like.

As for Al-Sistani, he is a very wise man. But remember that when the Shah of Iran kicked Khomeini out of Iran, he went and lived in Saddam's Iraq. Al-Sistani, Al-Sadr Sr. and many more are students of Khomeini. They believe in the same philosophy, "America is Satan". Once in control of power, they will be like Khomeini was in Iran. Iraq will become a theocracy ruled by Mullahs.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: 10 Marines killed nea

The insurgents were not there before you invaded. You created the monster. I bet once you leave and a proper government is elected by all Iraqis to represent them, they will merge into the society. Now revenge is taking place between Sunnis and Shias thanks to all American interference and support for one party against others. Civil war is next.

America should withdraw, pay reparations, hand in your neocon president and his cabal to international court to be tried for crimes against humanity. Nothing less is acceptable.

This has got to be the post that proves your fragile grip on reality.

The Islamist "insurgency" in Iraq is focused on killing MUSLIMS, which are by far the largest proportion of those murdered.

The Sunnis consider the Shia only slightly better than dogs, and believe that a civil war beteen the two will result in the rebirth of Sunni domonance in Iraq. They are working very hard to make this come to pass.

American withdrawal would set the stage for a bloodbath of epic proportions.

The Islamist evil that is at work in Iraq must be brought to heel. The people involved must surrender to the legitimate elected government of Iraq, or they must be hunted down and killed in their holes.

Nothing else is acceptable.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The people involved must surrender to the legitimate elected government of Iraq, or they must be hunted down and killed in their holes.

George Bush lives in a hole? I knew the White House was old and kind of run down in places, but I don't think it's nice for you to refer to it as a "hole", Colpy.

 

[jimmoyer]

Some Shia actually see that the Americans are tying their hands in seeking revenge on the Sunni. This counters your view in that small way of whether the Americans are fully supporting the Shia over the Sunni.

Sistani is in support of this moderation.
He is well known over the years for supporting a healthy distance between church and state, specifically urging clerics to refrain from political office.

He navigates the line between the heavy hand of American occupation and some of its benefits in protecting the moderates and keeping in line Sadr.

This man provides much hope and understanding, and the moderates need security to gain control over the more violent youthful shallow ideologies that bully the people of the region.

The more you read about Iraq and its people the more you know that no side is right completely and irrevocably.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_al-Sistani

 

[Ocean Breeze]

American withdrawal would set the stage for a bloodbath of epic proportions

and that might be exactly the way the US wants it. Once they blasted their way into Iraq..... they "knew" they would have to stay for an indefinate period of time and this fit their agenda perfectly. ....as they WANT to have a strong /physical/military presence in the region and Iraq is as good as any. (and probably easier than any other area would have been.......considering the lies they would have had to spin to invade someone else.)

they created a double edged sword by intention. No matter how much the US population turns away from this invasion or demands to have the troops brought home.......it will NOT be done as bush has no intentions of doing that. He will just devise a system where the US will eventually be less active in the fighting area .....and more active from their military bases. Iraq is NOT Iraq anymore.....as the US has its choking hold on it now...and will not let go. (unless something drastic happens)

 

[jimmoyer]

"...and that might be exactly the way the US wants it. "
----Ocean Breeze.

Man, that is not what anyone in America wants.

Even the liars in the Bush administration don't want that.

Can your outrage at American sin understand that?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: 10 Marines killed near Falluja

"...and that might be exactly the way the US wants it. "
----Ocean Breeze.

Man, that is not what anyone in America wants.

Even the liars in the Bush administration don't want that.

Can your outrage at American sin understand that?

jimmy......you have taken the remark LITERALLY and misunderstood its meaning. What I am saying is that the USR WANTS to STAY in Iraq.......and they know that if they leave things will go sideways in a hurry. So they created a double edged situation that fits their agenda. I cannot explain it any clearer than that. this gives them the ongoing excuse to stay there indefinately if they want. All they have to do is keep issuing soothing noises to the public as the public gets more discontent .

sheesh.

 

[jimmoyer]

Your contortions in making what you said more reasonable still is not accurate.

---------------Ocean Breeze quote below:

So they created a double edged situation that fits their agenda. I cannot explain it any clearer than that. this gives them the ongoing excuse to stay there indefinately if they want. All they have to do is keep issuing soothing noises to the public as the public gets more discontent .
-----------------------------end of quote----------------

I don't think even the liars in the Bush administration want this quagmire, and nor does any American.

We really do hope that the moderates and wiser heads in Iraq society gain the ability to rule in a democracy, and by definition, moderates just don't fight to the death for the principles we all allegedly support.

There are many indications this country can fail or rise above everyone's expectations.

19 million were proud to vote.
Sunnis are divided about the insurgents killing their own people. The most respected Shiite leader, al Sistani counsels both restraint on revenge and restraint on clerics seeking political office and is quite intelligent in his method of pushing American occupiers out the right way.

And the Kurds? Well they're waiting in the wings to continue their semi-autonomy and maybe even a nation that none of their neighbors wants, nor do they have the PR campaign the Palestinians got going for a homeland.

Strange how the world is so passionate about the Palestinians yet no passion but a question mark over their wise heads concerning a Kurdistan.

 

[I think not]

If the Kurds somehow manage their autonomy, Armenians (remember them?) may find their way also.

 

[moghrabi]

RE: 10 Marines killed nea

The Kurdish will be left in the cold once the Americans finish with them. Use them then abuse them. Remember Saddam?

 

[jimmoyer]

Where you, Moghrabi, differ with the average Kurd is how much more they hate Saddam than YOU do.

Their habit of thinking is well ingrained on that matter, and yes they don't forget that America is wobbly on backing them up, but right now the Americans are the only ones in their gutsy enough to have given them semi-autonomy in northern fly zone for a decade, and the only ones in world are doing anything for the Kurds, certainly not Western Europe or Canada on ANYTHING.

By the way, ITN, the Armenians do have their own country, and their capital looks across a lake where in the distance towers the Turkish Mt Arat of Noah's Ark legend.