1 in 5 Americans believes Sun revolves around the Earth

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
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California
Illiteracy needs to be broken down into racial, minority, and newly arrived groups to make any sense. The rate of immigration skews all stats these days and what may present as illiteracy could be grading a newcomer along with those who were schooled in the US for the majority of their lives.

A caveat:
Poverty in heavily dominated black schools is one of the saddest testaments to the state of education in the U.S. The children are not being served. Not by the schools, not their parent(s) who do not see the importance of education when they are trying to stay fed and housed.
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
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They must be the 1 in 5 dentists who don't recommend sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum. What's with these dentists?

The scary thing is that could be true. Some people would rather their teeth rot and get diabetes then consume artificial sweeteners.
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
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FundaMENTALLYDEFICIENTs also believe there are WMD all over Iraq and that Saddam caused the 9/11 attack.

Prove it! There is a big differences between Sadam had weapons of mass destruction then that the place is littered with them. Also there is a big difference between Sadam caused terrorism then he ordered the 9/11 attack. Do you have an affinity for straw men?
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Colpy said:
And the idiots on the other side of the political spectrum believe the WTC collapsed from controled [sic] demolition ... that there is a plot by the USA to force political union on North America, that Bush is Satan incarnate, that if the USA leaves Iraq that country will be better off, ......shall I go on?

Stupidity, gullibility, and ignorance exist on all points of the political spectrum......

Those CONSERVATIVES from www.antiwar.com who voice those same ideas that you hate would not likely find your views too flattering. But then as for stupidity it does take one to know one.:lol:
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Do you have an affinity for straw men?

Hahaha!!!

There was no terrorism in Iraq until Bush invaded that country. To believe that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 is ridiculous as he had his own conflict with Islamic fundies.

If Bush's war is so just, why has his coalition disappeared and why aren't people like you volunteering to fight in it??
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
120
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On a similar note to the title of the thread, there is a guard at my job who thinks that the clouds are farther away than the moon. Yes, she really thinks that.

*sigh*:lol:
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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U.S. falls in education rank compared to other countries
Story posted: 10-04-2005 07:07

By Elaine Wu
U-Wire
“The United States is falling when it comes to international education rankings, as recent studies show that other nations in the developed world have more effective education systems.

In a 2003 study conducted by UNICEF that took the averages from five different international education studies, the researchers ranked the United States No. 18 out of 24 nations in terms of the relative effectiveness of its educational system.

Another prominent 2003 study, the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study, shows a steady decline in the performance of American students from grades 4 to 12 in comparison to their peers in other countries.

In both studies, Finland, Australia, Belgium, Austria, Hungary, Netherlands and the United Kingdom beat the United States, while the Asian nations of South Korea, Japan and Singapore ranked first through third, respectively.”


Free Markets rise to the challenge in America….NOT!

Thirty years ago America put a man on the moon….in the Twenty-First Century, American arrogance and greed leave thousands in dire straits after Hurricane Katrina. In the Twenty-First Century American arrogance saw the world convulsing in war….a war predicated on lies and exaggerations.

Health Care in America we’re told by many here at CC is the envy of the world!

That nearly fifty million Americans can’t afford health care is of course beside the point…..

While some celebrate the prosperity of the American Dream…

As rich-poor gap widens in U.S., class mobility stalls

Friday, May 13, 2005 By David Wessel, The Wall Street Journal
The notion that the U.S is a special place where any child can grow up to be president, a meritocracy where smarts and ambition matter more than parenthood and class, dates to Benjamin Franklin. The 15th child of a candle-and-soap maker, Franklin started out as a penniless printer's apprentice and rose to wealth so great that he retired to a life of politics and diplomacy at age 42.
The promise that a child born in poverty isn't trapped there remains a staple of America's self-portrait. President Bush, though a riches-to-riches story himself, revels in the humble origins of some in his cabinet. He says his attorney general "grew up in a two-bedroom house," the son of "migrant workers who never finished elementary school." He notes that his Cuban-born commerce secretary's first job for Kellogg Corp. was driving a truck; his last was chief executive.
But the reality of mobility in America is more complicated than the myth. As the gap between rich and poor has widened since 1970, the odds that a child born in poverty will climb to wealth -- or a rich child will fall into the middle class -- remain stuck. Despite the spread of affirmative action, the expansion of community colleges and the other social change designed to give people of all classes a shot at success, Americans are no more or less likely to rise above, or fall below, their parents' economic class than they were 35 years ago.
Although Americans still think of their land as a place of exceptional opportunity -- in contrast to class-bound Europe -- the evidence suggests otherwise. And scholars have, over the past decade, come to see America as a less mobile society than they once believed.
As recently as the late 1980s, economists argued that not much advantage passed from parent to child, perhaps as little as 20 percent. By that measure, a rich man's grandchild would have barely any edge over a poor man's grandchild.
"Almost all the earnings advantages or disadvantages of ancestors are wiped out in three generations," wrote Gary Becker, the University of Chicago economist and Nobel laureate, in 1986. "Poverty would not seem to be a 'culture' that persists for several generations."
But over the last 10 years, better data and more number-crunching have led economists and sociologists to a new consensus: The escalators of mobility move much more slowly. A substantial body of research finds that at least 45 percent of parents' advantage in income is passed along to their children, and perhaps as much as 60 percent. With the higher estimate, it's not only how much money your parents have that matters -- even your great-great grandfather's wealth might give you a noticeable edge today.
Many Americans believe their country remains a land of unbounded opportunity. That perception explains why Americans, much more than Europeans, have tolerated the widening inequality in recent years. It is OK to have ever-greater differences between rich and poor, they seem to believe…

America remains the land of the great lie.

 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
1,509
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48
Great Satan
U.S. falls in education rank compared to other countries
Story posted: 10-04-2005 07:07

By Elaine Wu
U-Wire
“The United States is falling when it comes to international education rankings, as recent studies show that other nations in the developed world have more effective education systems.

In a 2003 study conducted by UNICEF that took the averages from five different international education studies, the researchers ranked the United States No. 18 out of 24 nations in terms of the relative effectiveness of its educational system.

Another prominent 2003 study, the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study, shows a steady decline in the performance of American students from grades 4 to 12 in comparison to their peers in other countries.

In both studies, Finland, Australia, Belgium, Austria, Hungary, Netherlands and the United Kingdom beat the United States, while the Asian nations of South Korea, Japan and Singapore ranked first through third, respectively.”

Free Markets rise to the challenge in America….NOT!

Thirty years ago America put a man on the moon….in the Twenty-First Century, American arrogance and greed leave thousands in dire straits after Hurricane Katrina. In the Twenty-First Century American arrogance saw the world convulsing in war….a war predicated on lies and exaggerations.

Health Care in America we’re told by many here at CC is the envy of the world!

That nearly fifty million Americans can’t afford health care is of course beside the point…..

While some celebrate the prosperity of the American Dream…

As rich-poor gap widens in U.S., class mobility stalls

Friday, May 13, 2005 By David Wessel, The Wall Street Journal
The notion that the U.S is a special place where any child can grow up to be president, a meritocracy where smarts and ambition matter more than parenthood and class, dates to Benjamin Franklin. The 15th child of a candle-and-soap maker, Franklin started out as a penniless printer's apprentice and rose to wealth so great that he retired to a life of politics and diplomacy at age 42.
The promise that a child born in poverty isn't trapped there remains a staple of America's self-portrait. President Bush, though a riches-to-riches story himself, revels in the humble origins of some in his cabinet. He says his attorney general "grew up in a two-bedroom house," the son of "migrant workers who never finished elementary school." He notes that his Cuban-born commerce secretary's first job for Kellogg Corp. was driving a truck; his last was chief executive.
But the reality of mobility in America is more complicated than the myth. As the gap between rich and poor has widened since 1970, the odds that a child born in poverty will climb to wealth -- or a rich child will fall into the middle class -- remain stuck. Despite the spread of affirmative action, the expansion of community colleges and the other social change designed to give people of all classes a shot at success, Americans are no more or less likely to rise above, or fall below, their parents' economic class than they were 35 years ago.
Although Americans still think of their land as a place of exceptional opportunity -- in contrast to class-bound Europe -- the evidence suggests otherwise. And scholars have, over the past decade, come to see America as a less mobile society than they once believed.
As recently as the late 1980s, economists argued that not much advantage passed from parent to child, perhaps as little as 20 percent. By that measure, a rich man's grandchild would have barely any edge over a poor man's grandchild.
"Almost all the earnings advantages or disadvantages of ancestors are wiped out in three generations," wrote Gary Becker, the University of Chicago economist and Nobel laureate, in 1986. "Poverty would not seem to be a 'culture' that persists for several generations."
But over the last 10 years, better data and more number-crunching have led economists and sociologists to a new consensus: The escalators of mobility move much more slowly. A substantial body of research finds that at least 45 percent of parents' advantage in income is passed along to their children, and perhaps as much as 60 percent. With the higher estimate, it's not only how much money your parents have that matters -- even your great-great grandfather's wealth might give you a noticeable edge today.
Many Americans believe their country remains a land of unbounded opportunity. That perception explains why Americans, much more than Europeans, have tolerated the widening inequality in recent years. It is OK to have ever-greater differences between rich and poor, they seem to believe…

America remains the land of the great lie.

Mikey, once again you win the contest in which you are the only participant...

I too, laugh at the unwashed, illiterate masses..kept so by their liberal democrat overlords, who would have no voting base were they to let them actually "make it" on their own.

Is it so different in Canada? Do the liberals there not push for higher taxes, higher minimum wages for jobs that a trained parakeet could perform, the redistribution of wealth(the Robin Hood doctrine), and say that minorities can never be successful on thier own?

If the uneducated, and otherwise deficient actually made it on their own, and experienced some self sufficiency, and the pride that comes along with it, the democratic party in the US would cease to exist.
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
1,509
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48
Great Satan
1 in 5 = 20%, therefore 80% think otherwise. 80% of the USA is a pretty large number.

Here comes that tail agin; waggin the dog, eh?

You probably just went on Logic's Mossad/CIA watchlist for pointing out that maybe 80% of Americans don't think the world is flat.:smile:
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,352
15
38
Calgary
Another prominent 2003 study, the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study, shows a steady decline in the performance of American students from grades 4 to 12 in comparison to their peers in other countries.

In both studies, Finland, Australia, Belgium, Austria, Hungary, Netherlands and the United Kingdom beat the United States, while the Asian nations of South Korea, Japan and Singapore ranked first through third, respectively.”


Free Markets rise to the challenge in America….NOT!

I'm pretty sure the United States system is pretty much like Canada. That is a socialist system that reflects the following liberal values: people of all abilities and backgrounds are put in the same classes, teachers teach to the lowest common denominator and just about no on fails no matter how bad they do.

Education is one thing in the US that is not much of a free market. This is because there are few cheep alternatives and parents are forced to pay the same taxes for the public system even if they could choose to use a different system. The result being is parents are economically forced to use a system that does not rank top in the world.

Also in a lot of other countries in the world their is more competition in education and a greater amount of private schools. It would be a great mistake to think that the United States Public educations system reflects free market capitalist values.

http://forums.rawdemocracy.com/showthread.php?t=2157
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,352
15
38
Calgary
Do you have an affinity for straw men?

Hahaha!!!

There was no terrorism in Iraq until Bush invaded that country. To believe that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 is ridiculous as he had his own conflict with Islamic fundies.

If Bush's war is so just, why has his coalition disappeared and why aren't people like you volunteering to fight in it??

Again you are setting up strawmen because I never said Saddam had something to do with 9/11. If you believe that their is no chance Sadam ever had terrorist training camps in his country (think before gulf war I) then perhaps you are a bit naive.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Saddam Hussein

An estimated 300,000 Iraqi citizens have vanished without a trace, many presumed dead. The U.N. Commission on Human Rights condemned the Iraqi regime in 2001 for "widespread, systematic torture and the maintaining of decrees prescribing cruel and inhuman punishment as a penalty for offenses." Torture methods have included hanging, beating, rape and burning alive. The 2001 U.S. Department of State Human Rights Report says the government "killed and tortured persons suspected of - or related to persons suspected of - economic crimes, military desertion and a variety of other activities. Security forces routinely tortured, beat, raped and otherwise abused detainees." It accused the regime of killing inmates to reduce prison overcrowding and executing prostitutes.

The United States of America

For the Iraqi Death Estimator, Just Foreign Policy accepts the Lancet estimate of 601,000 violent Iraqi deaths attributable to the U.S. invasion and occupation as of July 2006.
To update this number, we need to obtain a rate of how quickly deaths are mounting in Iraq. For this purpose, the Iraq Body Count (IBC) provides the most reliable, frequently updated database of deaths in Iraq. (The IBC also usefully provides a database of all violent Iraqi deaths demonstrable through press reports and thus relatively undeniable.) The IBC provides a maximum and minimum. We opted to use the midpoint between the two for our calculation.
We multiple the Lancet number as of July 2006 by the ratio of current IBC deaths divided by IBC deaths as of July 1, 2006 (43,394).
The formula used is:
Just Foreign Policy estimate = (Lancet estimate as of July 2006) * ( (Current IBC Deaths) / (IBC Deaths as of July 1, 2006) )

The United States has killed more Iraqis than Saddam Hussein ever did…and America isn’t through yet….

But hey Walter you've never let fact interfere in your version of reality before so why should you now?
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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For the Iraqi Death Estimator, Just Foreign Policy accepts the Lancet estimate of 601,000 violent Iraqi deaths attributable to the U.S. invasion and occupation as of July 2006. The United States has killed more Iraqis than Saddam Hussein ever did…and America isn’t through yet….

But hey Walter you've never let fact interfere in your version of reality before so why should you now?
Depends on whose numbers you believe.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
 

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,382
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Prove it! There is a big differences between Sadam had weapons of mass destruction then that the place is littered with them. Also there is a big difference between Sadam caused terrorism then he ordered the 9/11 attack. Do you have an affinity for straw men?


70% of americans thought saddam was behind 9-11, it is because the way the media showed saddam, he had something to do with 9-11.


Sixty-nine percent of Americans said they thought it at least likely that Hussein was involved in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, according to the latest Washington Post poll

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A32862-2003Sep5




Saddam and alqueada were ennemies, pure and simple.
 

Pangloss

Council Member
Mar 16, 2007
1,535
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Calgary, Alberta
Coming back to the OP, I've spent the last few months reading Richard Dawkins' backlist, and I just finished his last book, "The God Delusion."

In it, he quotes a fair bit of social research linking scientific illiteracy and a religious upbringing. He also goes into some detail on the correlation between belief and scientific illiteracy. This is an issue that magazines like "Skeptic," "Free Inquiry," and "The Canadian Humanist" have been hammering away at for the past few years.

Draw your own conclusions as to what it means, but there is some substance to the argument that belief impedes or impairs scientific literacy.

Pangloss
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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Again you are setting up strawmen because I never said Saddam had something to do with 9/11. If you believe that their is no chance Sadam ever had terrorist training camps in his country (think before gulf war I) then perhaps you are a bit naive.


We have had more terrorism in the USA with the School of the Americas and the CIA.

Saddam had to deal with his own enemies who were terrorists.


```Tell that to the Kurds and the Shia sect.```


PKK and PUK are terrorists who have fought against Saddam and against the government of Turkey.

Al-Daawa is also a terrorist group that is now part of the current ruling regime in Baghdad. This is the same terrorist group that attacked the US embassy in Kuwait and killed Americans and French officials. To this day, those terrorists which include Bush ally
Ibrahim al-Jaafari have not been brought to trial.
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,352
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70% of americans thought saddam was behind 9-11, it is because the way the media showed saddam, he had something to do with 9-11.




http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A32862-2003Sep5




Saddam and alqueada were ennemies, pure and simple.

Do you have any info on how the poll data was collected because it is hard for me to believe that people could be that stupid. What was their basis, the media didn't even tell them Sadam was behind 9-11.

Besides, don't you know that 80% of statistics are wrong ;)