Does God exist?
- Thread starter Kreskin
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Not of a single place, or anything called a third heaven specifically, but yes, something like that does emerge as a possibility from the equations of string theory, and is alluded to in that fascinating link Vanni provided, a multiverse or megaverse, as it's called, depending on who you read. Leonard Susskind and David Deutsch (both physicists) deal with the idea at length in their popular books, Deutsch's The Fabric of Reality and Susskind's The Cosmic Landscape. The core idea is that what we perceive as our universe is but one of many possible realities allowed by the equations. They don't point to a single solution or a single set of what we refer to as the laws of physics, and so the supposition naturally arises that perhaps all possible solutions exist as separate universes, with different laws and physical constants and so on, and we just happen to inhabit one whose nature allows our kind of life to develop.
None of which has anything to do with whether god exists or not, except peripherally. If, for instance, god made only the observable universe, who made all the other ones the equations point to? There's an estimated 10^500 of them. I doubt anyone would agree to postulate a creator god for each one. It also seems worth pointing out that the observable universe isn't all of it. We can't see anything beyond about 13.7 billion light years, light from farther away hasn't reached us yet.
Are you trying to make some sort of point? So 'shepherds' or whoever are wearing those pointy hats know more about science than we do today? LOL is our path ascending or descending.
Well I thought the point was pretty clear...
Your god is a construct from the vivid imaginations of those who desired to control others by manipulating their fears and desire to cheat death...
Not a lick of science invovled there...
Just rehashed stories of boogeymen with a bag full of hoodoo and hocus pocus...:evil2:
Your god is a construct from the vivid imaginations of those who desired to control others by manipulating their fears and desire to cheat death...
Not a lick of science invovled there...
Just rehashed stories of boogeymen with a bag full of hoodoo and hocus pocus...:evil2:
Hey Dex,
While this has little to do with or without the existence of god, I find this article interesting nonetheless...
SPACE.com -- Mysterious New 'Dark Flow' Discovered in Space
Dark flow + observable Higgs Boson = further understanding of a pre-Big Bang Universe...er multiverse or whatever.
Interesting times are ahead for quantum cosmologists I'm thinking...
Moderator's Edit: Removed links
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I won't lie, I have heard of the multi-verse theory before. It in it's basic form the Bible is only promoting that God lives outside this universe, it is not proposing that there are 'other big bangs that have occurred' at this time.
If men are to receive a new earth, does that also mean Angels will receive a 'new heaven' that could include the 2nd big bang and all other big bangs after that, even though that could still leave God (and Christ and the Holy Ghost) as being able to be in a place that is separate even from all that?
As things stand, there would not have to be endless 'designers' if this (universe/heaven) is the only one that exists.
If men are to receive a new earth, does that also mean Angels will receive a 'new heaven' that could include the 2nd big bang and all other big bangs after that, even though that could still leave God (and Christ and the Holy Ghost) as being able to be in a place that is separate even from all that?
As things stand, there would not have to be endless 'designers' if this (universe/heaven) is the only one that exists.
From the point of what was written alone are you saying Genesis 1 has nothing to do with the physical manifestation of the earth as we now know it?
How about this little tid-bit?
Job:26:7: He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
When did science cover those points?
When you read the whole verse it is obviously referencing men as being the pillars.
1Sa:2:8:
He raiseth up the poor out of the dust,
and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill,
to set them among princes,
and to make them inherit the throne of glory:
for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's,
and he hath set the world upon them.
Now this would be an interesting scientific observation.
1Sa:2:10:
The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces;
out of heaven shall he thunder upon them:
the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth;
and he shall give strength unto his king,
and exalt the horn of his anointed.
The one from Job is asking who can undo the 'works' that God has put in place.
Job:9:2: I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
Job:9:3:
If he will contend with him,
he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
Job:9:4:
He is wise in heart,
and mighty in strength:
who hath hardened himself against him,
and hath prospered?
Job:9:5:
Which removeth the mountains,
and they know not:
which overturneth them in his anger.
Why would you want to appear as a person who cannot even understand a few lines of coherent thoughts on some trivial information written down ages ago. Was it really 'too much trouble' to actually look-up something somebody showed you?
That is the really bad thing about mocking Scripture, the 'rebuttal' is usually on the very same page, not hidden away in some obscure, hard to understand verse. MGHMOYS
1Sa:2:8:
He raiseth up the poor out of the dust,
and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill,
to set them among princes,
and to make them inherit the throne of glory:
for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's,
and he hath set the world upon them.
Now this would be an interesting scientific observation.
1Sa:2:10:
The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces;
out of heaven shall he thunder upon them:
the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth;
and he shall give strength unto his king,
and exalt the horn of his anointed.
The one from Job is asking who can undo the 'works' that God has put in place.
Job:9:2: I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
Job:9:3:
If he will contend with him,
he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
Job:9:4:
He is wise in heart,
and mighty in strength:
who hath hardened himself against him,
and hath prospered?
Job:9:5:
Which removeth the mountains,
and they know not:
which overturneth them in his anger.
Why would you want to appear as a person who cannot even understand a few lines of coherent thoughts on some trivial information written down ages ago. Was it really 'too much trouble' to actually look-up something somebody showed you?
That is the really bad thing about mocking Scripture, the 'rebuttal' is usually on the very same page, not hidden away in some obscure, hard to understand verse. MGHMOYS
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So no graffitti then?
In his book History Begins at Sumer: Thirty-Nine "Firsts" in Recorded History, Samuel Noah Kramer gives documentary evidence which supports the notion that the book of Job was derived from a much earlier Sumerian source.
So I suppose the question is really what did the Sumerians learn in science class...
In his book History Begins at Sumer: Thirty-Nine "Firsts" in Recorded History, Samuel Noah Kramer gives documentary evidence which supports the notion that the book of Job was derived from a much earlier Sumerian source.
So I suppose the question is really what did the Sumerians learn in science class...
Really? That's news to me, I've always been told he's everywhere in this one.
No, that doesn't resolve the fundamental question. You look around at the apparent design and order of the cosmos and postulate a designer as the source of it. What that does in effect is attempt to explain something complex and not fully understood by postulating something even more complex and less understood as the source of it. That doesn't explain anything at all, for you then have to explain where that more complex and less understood thing came from. Most people, most probably including yourself, will say something like it's always been there, no explanation is necessary or possible. That's taking the lazy way out, and if you're going to go that route you might as well just postulate that the cosmos has always been there and be done with it. It explains just as much, i.e. nothing.
Does copyright infringement stop you from posting the basis or is the title supposed to impress me enough to drop the subject.
So how did those 'gods' gain information way back then?
That reply doesn't explain why your reference tells a different story a few verses from your quote that dispels you whole 'alleged' point. At least your improper Bible references are now absent, thank God.
I guess an honest attempt was more than one could hope for. Standard answer, you are right, He is and all at the same time , that is why He alone can tell you the names of the stars and how many hairs you have on your head. Job fell into the same trap, describe God, Job tried and then God came along and expanded on it abit. Now would you like those two verses or are you already familiar with them?
We look around and assume we know something, that doesn't always remain the standard, it is constantly under revision.
So how was this first 'big-bang' created, how and where did all that material 'get there' in the 1st place? What is the most common element (known), hydrogen. Where does the Bible start? Face of the deep (the void, not the gaps in our known Heavens). Who knew that 'back then'? Waters of the deep is what? Hydrogen and oxygen certainly but where were they before they helped create the Heavens (that came before the earth, right?) The Bible got that right yet it is a nonsense book? You can stay with that, and really you might want to because if you acknowledge that part, well the rest is truly frightening for a moment or two.
That aside, does the Bible attempt to explore the very early existence of our home?
Buy the book and you too can be in the know...
I had the fortitude to read your nauseating book of lies and hate so the least you can do is show the same consideration to those of opposing views...
Well it wasn't your god I'm quite certain...he's pretty much limited his banter to inciting Israelites to bloody massacres, and whispering sweet nothings to scat-eating sociopaths...
I guess I'll get back to a few points that strike me as funny...
Is it your contention that shepherds wrote the bible, because it certainly wasn't mine...
The bible was written by a multitude of authors that were armed with the scientific and philosophic, and political views of the age in which they lived...
Nothing too miraculous there...
Tell me, are you one of those that believes in the infallibility of the bible...just curious...
Is it your contention that shepherds wrote the bible, because it certainly wasn't mine...
The bible was written by a multitude of authors that were armed with the scientific and philosophic, and political views of the age in which they lived...
Nothing too miraculous there...
Tell me, are you one of those that believes in the infallibility of the bible...just curious...
In the Enûma Anu Enlil, pre-Assyrian Babylonian astronomers were able to predict many different planetary phenomenon...
While this information was used primarily as an astrological reference, it does show that ancient Mesopotamians new more about our solar system than you give them credit for...
The heliocentric model for planetary movement was supported by some ancient astronomers which predate the probable time of the writing of Job...
What's apparent is that they new a hell of a lot more about the cosmos than the guy that wrote your little tidbit...
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the birth and death of the universe
what does the holy quran say about black holes
what does the holy quran say about iron ?
Earth's seven layers
the start and of the universe inthe holy koran
the big bang Echoes through the map of the galaxy
the cosmic
the fine tuning in the Universe
pulsar
is the Universe static
the fate of the moon in the holy Quran and science
the change of weather
anew Astromical quranic method for the determination of the greatest speed c
Moderator's Edit: Links removed.
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It's been made abundantly clear over the years that no exchange over an internet forum is ever going to change anyone's mind about anything, myself included...
My area of interest is not the contents of religious scripture, as they are meaningless without context, but the reason behind why they were written in the first place.
To that end, I have devoted my time to reading about ancient civilzations and the rise of the different religions from a societal perspective...
The evidence is clear, for those who choose to look, that the notion or your god and his misbegotten son has been pilfered from many and much earlier sources...
Many of these earlier texts are clearly fictitious in nature...the flood from the Epic of Gilgamesh and the story of Sargon up the creek without a paddle come to mind...
So to does the life of the Egyptian pharoah Akhenaten whose exploits bear a remarkable resemblence to those of Moses...not to mention the obvious plagiarism of the ten commandments from the Book of the Dead...
I have not trusted in one text alone to draw these conclusions, and in reading about the past, my attention is inevitably drawn toward the future...and has placed me squarely in the world of particle physics and quantum cosmology to answer the questions of the universe...
It is more palatable to me to constantly learn and posthulate new and better theories based upon observable and measurable evidence than to throw out a blanket "god dunnit" to hide ignorance or misunderstanding...
Faith is a denial of reason, where history and evidence are irrelevant to the faitful...and at the end of the day, that is exactly what belief in a supernatural being is...a declaration that you don't know, nor do you ever want to know, the whys and the hows of the universe...
Dex can explain it better than I though...he always did...:bigsmurf:
My area of interest is not the contents of religious scripture, as they are meaningless without context, but the reason behind why they were written in the first place.
To that end, I have devoted my time to reading about ancient civilzations and the rise of the different religions from a societal perspective...
The evidence is clear, for those who choose to look, that the notion or your god and his misbegotten son has been pilfered from many and much earlier sources...
Many of these earlier texts are clearly fictitious in nature...the flood from the Epic of Gilgamesh and the story of Sargon up the creek without a paddle come to mind...
So to does the life of the Egyptian pharoah Akhenaten whose exploits bear a remarkable resemblence to those of Moses...not to mention the obvious plagiarism of the ten commandments from the Book of the Dead...
I have not trusted in one text alone to draw these conclusions, and in reading about the past, my attention is inevitably drawn toward the future...and has placed me squarely in the world of particle physics and quantum cosmology to answer the questions of the universe...
It is more palatable to me to constantly learn and posthulate new and better theories based upon observable and measurable evidence than to throw out a blanket "god dunnit" to hide ignorance or misunderstanding...
Faith is a denial of reason, where history and evidence are irrelevant to the faitful...and at the end of the day, that is exactly what belief in a supernatural being is...a declaration that you don't know, nor do you ever want to know, the whys and the hows of the universe...
Dex can explain it better than I though...he always did...:bigsmurf: